Football's greatest - where does Lionel Messi rank?

[Interpolic]

Allardyce claimed Okocha was better in his Standard column this evening.

[ponsaelius]

Allardyce claimed Okocha was better in his Standard column this evening.

 

Get the fuck out  Seriously?

[Guest Tyson]

Allardyce claimed Okocha was better in his Standard column this evening.

 

Probably one of the very few players that didn't fall into Allardyce's rumoured disciplinary policy of fining players who attempted shots on goal, from outside the box.

 

[Foluwashola]

According to Wiki, Okocha is currently up for auction in the Indian Super League. Wtf? 

 

He was class like, first name in the Fantasy team for a good few years.

[Interpolic]

Allardyce claimed Okocha was better in his Standard column this evening.

 

Get the fuck out  Seriously?

 

Nah.  Sorry mate.

 

He did say this though...

 

Another little striker was also in the news this week when Lionel Messi broke the Barcelona scoring record.

 

Is he the best-ever player? He could certainly be but the one query is at international level. Messi has never performed in the same way for Argentina as he has for Barcelona.

 

A big part of that is the fact Argentina are not the team they were but until Messi does it on the international stage he could still be compared unfavourably with Pele, Maradona — and don’t forget, George Best.

 

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/sport/football/sam-allardyce-facts-count-not-opinions-7583119.html

 

... which is entirely reasonable, people are always forgetting about George Best winning the World Cup on his own for Northern Ireland.

[Segun Oluwaniyi]

Okocha was one of the greatest failures and underachievers that I have seen in my life following football. I can count on one hand the players I have seen who were more naturally skillful and could simply make the football do what they wanted with such ease. It says a fair amount about him that he accomplished absolutely nothing in his club career and captained his country to complete and utter failure. I love him, but it disgusts me to even talk about the man. Admittedly he lacked any of the other things necessary to be a great footballers other than actual than skill on the ball, but he still wasted his gifts.

 

Messi isn't from northern Ireland, btw. He plays for one of the world's best football nations. When you play for a country like Argentina, I would argue that international dominance is a prerequisite to being considered the "best".

[Chicken Dancer]

Not old enough to see Maradonna, Best etc, but what people forget is Messi is only 24, and he's breaking records left right and centre. Hes the top scorer of all time at one of the top 3 clubs in World football. He's an absolute joy to watch and just seems to be getting better by the game. I've got no doubt that when he finally retires the records he sets will never be broken, and he will be considered as the greatest ever.

[Guest Tyson]

Allardyce claimed Okocha was better in his Standard column this evening.

 

Get the f*** out  Seriously?

 

Nah.  Sorry mate.

 

He did say this though...

 

Another little striker was also in the news this week when Lionel Messi broke the Barcelona scoring record.

 

Is he the best-ever player? He could certainly be but the one query is at international level. Messi has never performed in the same way for Argentina as he has for Barcelona.

 

A big part of that is the fact Argentina are not the team they were but until Messi does it on the international stage he could still be compared unfavourably with Pele, Maradona — and don’t forget, George Best.

 

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/sport/football/sam-allardyce-facts-count-not-opinions-7583119.html

 

... which is entirely reasonable, people are always forgetting about George Best winning the World Cup on his own for Northern Ireland.

 

Current day Argentina squad. It's consists of arguably the finest footballing generation they have produced, dating back ten years or so. Their recent WC record, at youth level, stands head & shoulders above everybody else. And the kids that have starred in those WCs have progressed well in the big leagues in Europe.

 

The talent level is amazing, it's just that it hasn't been harnessed yet.

 

Allardyce's opinions of football, and it's finer points, has been permanently tainted by Prozone's numeric wonders.

[Interpolic]

Okocha was one of the greatest failures and underachievers that I have seen in my life following football. I can count on one hand the players I have seen who were more naturally skillful and could simply make the football do what they wanted with such ease. It says a fair amount about him that he accomplished absolutely nothing in his club career and captained his country to complete and utter failure. I love him, but it disgusts me to even talk about the man. Admittedly he lacked any of the other things necessary to be a great footballers other than actual than skill on the ball, but he still wasted his gifts.

 

Messi isn't from northern Ireland, btw. He plays for one of the world's best football nations. When you play for a country like Argentina, I would argue that international dominance is a prerequisite to being considered the "best".

 

Bit in bold reads brilliantly.

 

I'm aware Messi isn't Irish, however the point I'm making is that Allardyce completely negates his flaky point with the last 5 words of the article, insisting "until Messi does it on the international stage he could still be compared unfavourably with Pele, Maradona — and don’t forget, George Best".

 

If international football's so important then why's he throwing George Best in there in the first place?

[Mr. Snrub]

At the 2006 world up he had not long recovered from a serious injury and Pekerman got wide spread grief for not picking him, didn't even bring off the bench when they got put out by Germany.

 

At the 2010 world cup they had a coke head nutbar in charge who thought Jonas Gutierrez was key to Argentina being successful.  Yet still he was their best player at this tournament.  He's got 2 more world cups to play where he'll still be at his peak, so let's just wait and see what happens. 

 

Was a very Barcelona esque performance in Argentina's last match agaainst the Swiss scoring a hat-trick, all be it in a friendly.

[alpal78]

At the 2006 world up he had not long recovered from a serious injury and Pekerman got wide spread grief for not picking him, didn't even bring off the bench when they got put out by Germany.

 

At the 2010 world cup they had a coke head nutbar in charge who thought Jonas Gutierrez was key to Argentina being successful.  Yet still he was their best player at this tournament.  He's got 2 more world cups to play where he'll still be at his peak, so let's just wait and see what happens. 

 

Was a very Barcelona esque performance in Argentina's last match agaainst the Swiss scoring a hat-trick, all be it in a friendly.

 

Fair enough, I agree with you this time. I'm by no means precluding the possibility of Messi being the best ever. You're right, he has time on his side. His performances in the next 2 World Cup will be crucial

[Zero]

Both Zidane and Ronaldinho have been the most dominant player in football during their peak era. They are unplayable at their best and has been the main driving force for their World Cup success. In that sense, Messi is really behind them in terms of overall achievement.  Mind you C Ronaldo is the same, even more far behind.

 

The point is, almost all the "greatest players" were all fucking awesome and simply unplayable, having their own weapons that almost no other else could replicate. Messi's flashy run and movement are definitely one of the strongest weapon in football history, but so as Ronaldinho's creative tricks and Beckanbauer's tactical vision. I cannot simply say Messi is the "best ever" because he is doing what the others can't do, since at the same time he couldn't do what other legends can do as well.

 

For sure Messi has proven to be one of the greatest players by winning almost everything in club level, that he is among the same rank as the likes of Ronaldino, Zidane, Cruyff, Best, or even Platini. However, to say he is the "best ever", the best football player even produced in this world, he is still not convincing enough.  In fact I would say he is still a long way to go to that point. World Cup is a must imo.  The question is "is Messi better than Pele and Maradona?" but not "Is Messi the same level as Pele and Maradona?" and to suggest Messi is the former case, World Cup is a minimum requirement. Winning the next 2 would be more convincing.

[Mr. Snrub]

Both Zidane and Ronaldinho have been the most dominant player in football during their peak era. They are unplayable at their best and has been the main driving force for their World Cup success.

 

Ronaldo was Brazil's mian driving force for them the last time they won the world cup.  Even Rivaldo was more important to them than Ronnie.

 

Ronaldinho is my favourite player ever to watch for entertainment value, but there's no way he was ever effective or consistent as Messi has been.  He's defnitely the better player.  You could argue that Edgar Davids was just as important to Barcelona as Ronaldinho was for turning Barcelona around.

 

Still, Ronaldinho > Zidane.

[Guest gggg]

Not old enough to see Maradonna, Best etc, but what people forget is Messi is only 24, and he's breaking records left right and centre. Hes the top scorer of all time at one of the top 3 clubs in World football. He's an absolute joy to watch and just seems to be getting better by the game. I've got no doubt that when he finally retires the records he sets will never be broken, and he will be considered as the greatest ever.

 

In terms of goalscoring records he's never gonna match Gerd Muller.

[mrmojorisin75]

Not old enough to see Maradonna, Best etc, but what people forget is Messi is only 24, and he's breaking records left right and centre. Hes the top scorer of all time at one of the top 3 clubs in World football. He's an absolute joy to watch and just seems to be getting better by the game. I've got no doubt that when he finally retires the records he sets will never be broken, and he will be considered as the greatest ever.

 

In terms of goalscoring records he's never gonna match Gerd Muller.

 

  wtf - are you a anti messi-bot hired by cristiano ronaldo to trawl the interwebs trying to convince everyone messi isn't as good as he actually is?

 

alpal's post is as close as we'll ever get to an agreement from either side mind...i said similar to messi (the poster) myself before; if they build the team around messi (the player) argentina will win the world cup or go very close

[Guest gggg]

No I'm just pointing out the records he sets won't be there to be broken.

 

What has Ronaldo got to do with it? If there's a debate over who's the better of those two the best of all time arguement goes out of the window.

[mrmojorisin75]

No I'm just pointing out the records he sets won't be there to be broken.

 

What has Ronaldo got to do with it? If there's a debate over who's the better of those two the best of all time arguement goes out of the window.

 

  robot

[Zero]

Both Zidane and Ronaldinho have been the most dominant player in football during their peak era. They are unplayable at their best and has been the main driving force for their World Cup success.

 

Ronaldo was Brazil's mian driving force for them the last time they won the world cup.  Even Rivaldo was more important to them than Ronnie.

 

Ronaldinho is my favourite player ever to watch for entertainment value, but there's no way he was ever effective or consistent as Messi has been.  He's defnitely the better player.  You could argue that Edgar Davids was just as important to Barcelona as Ronaldinho was for turning Barcelona around.

 

Still, Ronaldinho > Zidane.

 

Different opinion here. Ronaldo and Rivaldo were the "clinical" players for Brazil in 2002, but it's Ronaldinho who carried out the game plan perfectly and push Brazil forward. Ronnie did lots of work before Ronaldo could score and without him Brazil would not advance to the final.  I know this is not the majority but I did think Ronnie was brilliant at that World Cup.

[Sammys_Tekkers]

Did I read that right, someone thinks Zidane and Ronaldinho were better?

 

Yes 

 

Big fan of them both, had Ronaldinho stopped at his peak for longer I think he could have been considered one of the best around.

[ponsaelius]

Ronaldinho had a good World Cup in 2002 but it was very much a supporting role. He had the freedom to express himself with Rivaldo and Ronaldo in the side, plus Brazil were not expected to do anything in that tournament.

 

06 where he was the best player in the world and expected to deliver he looked a shadow of himself, which was very disappointing. He seemed to go into a downward spiral after that, motivation gone.

[Tooj]

Ronaldinho had a good World Cup in 2002 but it was very much a supporting role. He had the freedom to express himself with Rivaldo and Ronaldo in the side, plus Brazil were not expected to do anything in that tournament.

 

06 where he was the best player in the world and expected to deliver he looked a shadow of himself, which was very disappointing. He seemed to go into a downward spiral after that, motivation gone.

Yup. Parreira couldn't seem to find a way to get the best out of both him and Kaka that tournament.

[Guest BlacknWhiteArmy]

I really liked Ronaldinho, but there were too many games where he struggled to impact (later on).

[Sifu]

About Zidane btw, he was, for me, the perfect/classic example of the number 10 and he was definitely one of my favourite players.

 

He was the key component for every team he played for really - certainly unplayable on his day. The way he dictated the play from midfield was absolute world class. His technique, his vision, his shooting, just everything about him oozed quality.  He was still doing great things into his 30s too, that's how important he was as a player (especially for France who, to this day, haven't really found a replacement/successor for him yet). Even though his legs were going, he was still able to be the midfield maestro.

 

It was a shame to see him end his career with that headbutt though (especially when he was having a great World Cup in 2006).

[alpal78]

About Zidane btw, he was, for me, the perfect/classic example of the number 10 and he was definitely one of my favourite players. He was the key component for any team really - certainly unplayable on his day. The way he dictated the play from midfield was absolute world class. His technique, his vision, his shooting, just everything about him oozed quality.  He was still doing great things into his 30s too, that's how important he was as a player (especially for France who, to this day, haven't really found a replacement/successor for him yet). Even though his legs were going, he was still able to be the midfield maestro.

 

It was a shame to see him end his career with that headbutt though (especially when he was having a great World Cup in 2006).

 

I second that. I'm not sure how to compare Zidane and Messi, they are very different type of players. But I prefer watching Zidane play. His moves are like in slow mo and very majestic. To me his ball control was second to none, when he plays, it's almost like there's orchestra music playing in the background

[Sifu]

About Zidane btw, he was, for me, the perfect/classic example of the number 10 and he was definitely one of my favourite players. He was the key component for any team really - certainly unplayable on his day. The way he dictated the play from midfield was absolute world class. His technique, his vision, his shooting, just everything about him oozed quality.  He was still doing great things into his 30s too, that's how important he was as a player (especially for France who, to this day, haven't really found a replacement/successor for him yet). Even though his legs were going, he was still able to be the midfield maestro.

 

It was a shame to see him end his career with that headbutt though (especially when he was having a great World Cup in 2006).

 

I second that. I'm not sure how to compare Zidane and Messi, they are very different type of players. But I prefer watching Zidane play. His moves are like in slow mo and very majestic. To me his ball control was second to none, when he plays, it's almost like there's orchestra music playing in the background

 

Simply put!

 

And aye, you can't really compare Messi and Zidane. Like you've said, they're two completely different types of players. Just thought that Zidane deserved a bit of recognition in this thread.