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Football's greatest - where does Lionel Messi rank?

Dave

by Dave
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Mole_Toonfan

Mole_Toonfan

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I think the WC win in 86 was in some part a testament to Maradona's freakish dominance... Argentina weren't a bad side but they weren't great either and it was Maradona who made the difference time and time again. Similarly, Baggio managing to pop up every time his knackered, uninspired Italy teammates needed him in 94 could've been interpreted as in some way an individual victory. Those two are as close to 'carrying' a team to victory as you'll get.

 

In Maradona's case you have to look at his achievement at Napoli too. He clearly was a player who could lift a team by sheer individual dominance, and not just over the course of a summer tournament.

 

Of course but when its brought up people act like he was a one man band and he was surrounded by garbage which is rubbish honestly, same goes with Napoli he was obviously the difference maker but lets not act like he was surrounded by Wigan level players and took them to glory. (not aimed at you btw but the general consensus)

 

Also worth pointing out that for Messi to have inspired Argentina to the World Cup, with Maradona as his manager and Jonas at right back, in that totally unbalanced side, would've been an achievement to tower above just about anything ever achieved at a World Cup. I don't think he's had a particularly fair crack at it yet but there's a World Cup coming up in Brazil that might just have his name on it

 

Completely agree, i also think they have a chance in 2014 not only is Messi improving for Argentina but the team as a whole is( think they were unbeaten in 2012?) if they can continue to improve they definitely have a chance but as i have said before IMO Messi doesn't need a WC because of his domination at club level.

 

Also i don't agree Garrincha carried Brazil in 58 they had great players like Djalma Santos, Didi, Nilton Santos, Pele( i know he was a kid but he was still great) etc etc.

 

 

 

 

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Tooj

Tooj

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Posted

I think the WC win in 86 was in some part a testament to Maradona's freakish dominance... Argentina weren't a bad side but they weren't great either and it was Maradona who made the difference time and time again. Similarly, Baggio managing to pop up every time his knackered, uninspired Italy teammates needed him in 94 could've been interpreted as in some way an individual victory. Those two are as close to 'carrying' a team to victory as you'll get.

 

In Maradona's case you have to look at his achievement at Napoli too. He clearly was a player who could lift a team by sheer individual dominance, and not just over the course of a summer tournament.

 

Of course but when its brought up people act like he was a one man band and he was surrounded by garbage which is rubbish honestly, same goes with Napoli he was obviously the difference maker but lets not act like he was surrounded by Wigan level players and took them to glory. (not aimed at you btw but the general consensus)

 

Also worth pointing out that for Messi to have inspired Argentina to the World Cup, with Maradona as his manager and Jonas at right back, in that totally unbalanced side, would've been an achievement to tower above just about anything ever achieved at a World Cup. I don't think he's had a particularly fair crack at it yet but there's a World Cup coming up in Brazil that might just have his name on it

 

Completely agree, i also think they have a chance in 2014 not only is Messi improving for Argentina but the team as a whole is( think they were unbeaten in 2012?) if they can continue to improve they definitely have a chance but as i have said before IMO Messi doesn't need a WC because of his domination at club level.

 

Also i don't agree Garrincha carried Brazil in 58 they had great players like Djalma Santos, Didi, Nilton Santos, Pele( i know he was a kid but he was still great) etc etc.

Garrincha didn't in '58. It was '62 which was regarded as his tournament.

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Beren

Beren

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Four-time Ballon d'Or winner Lionel Messi says the one thing missing from his trophy cabinet is the World Cup, claiming he would swap his personal awards for success at national team level.

 

Messi claimed his most recent accolade this week, capping a stunning year which saw him score a record 91 goals in 2012.

 

However, with the World Cup in neighbouring Brazil looming, the Argentina forward has declared his focus is now on winning the world's biggest international tournament in 2014.

 

"Winning the World Cup is what is missing. The truth is, yes, I would swap a Ballon d'Or for the World Cup, I've always felt like that. Nothing compares with being world champion.

 

"I want to achieve things with Barcelona and with my country, which I've always said is my dream," Messi is quoted as saying in The Sun.

 

Messi has garnered comparisons to compatriot Diego Maradona, who led Argentina to their last World Cup triumph in 1986. The 25-year-old insists such expectations - including criticism of his performances for La Albiceleste - in his homeland do not weigh on his mind, as Alejandro Sabella's men currently sit atop the South American standings for 2014 qualification.

 

"It makes me so happy that many important people talk well of me," he explained.

 

"Each year my objective is to grow, not to stay with what I have. As for what I don't know, I want to try and learn and get better.

 

"Last year I was welcomed back home in a spectacular way because the people are now behind the national team. It had been a long time that this chemistry had been lost and I am happy we finished the year so well.

 

"We are working hard to give the people of Argentina the best, and many joys. Today, you can see the unity. That makes Argentina stronger.

 

"To see people talking well of the national team is different to see criticism from everywhere before you even set foot back. That hurts."

 

 

http://memecrunch.com/meme/249T/then-messi-said/image.png

 

:troll: Probleme?

 

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Guest firetotheworks

Guest firetotheworks

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Looking at his stats, goal scoring-wise, he could realistically become the all time La Liga and Champions League top scorer within a season and a bit. It would be just ridiculous to do that before the age of 27, but it's entirely possible.

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Mole_Toonfan

Mole_Toonfan

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As far as Balon D'or goes i should mention something....

 

- until 1995, you had to be of European nationality and play in a European league to qualify

- from 1995 to 2007, you had to play in a European league only

- Only since 2007 is it a world player award

 

So if these rules were in effect in the 50s and before then the likes of Pele would have won many as would many others.

 

Which is why Maradona, Zico etc etc and the likes never won it, doesn't take anything away from Messi but i doubt 4 in a row would be a record if these rules were in place in Pele's day.

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Flip

Flip

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I think the WC win in 86 was in some part a testament to Maradona's freakish dominance... Argentina weren't a bad side but they weren't great either and it was Maradona who made the difference time and time again. Similarly, Baggio managing to pop up every time his knackered, uninspired Italy teammates needed him in 94 could've been interpreted as in some way an individual victory. Those two are as close to 'carrying' a team to victory as you'll get.

 

In Maradona's case you have to look at his achievement at Napoli too. He clearly was a player who could lift a team by sheer individual dominance, and not just over the course of a summer tournament.

 

http://www.jogodearea.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/garrincha-brasil.jpg

 

The little bird disagrees.

 

Aye, people talk about Maradona but Garrincha won it on his own in an equally perfect fashion.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Tooj

Tooj

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2259495/Lionel-Messi-sends-signed-shirt-Gerd-Muller-breaking-record.html

 

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/01/09/article-2259495-16D37879000005DC-432_634x403.jpg

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2264392/Gerd-Muller-receives-Lionel-Messis-signed-Barcelona-shirt.html

 

Gerd Muller woke up this morning to a very special delivery at his home in Munich. The former Germany and Bayern striker received a signed No 10 shirt from a man he dubbed ‘the best player in world’.

 

Barcelona’s Lionel Messi shattered Muller’s long-standing record for the number of goals in a calendar year when he notched up an incredible 91 in 2012.

 

Muller had held the record since 1972, when the man affectionately known as ‘Der Bomber’ fired in 85 goals while at Bayern.

 

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/01/18/article-2264392-170291DD000005DC-28_634x356.jpg

 

But the ever-graceful Messi’s first thought upon breaking the record was for the man he had surpassed.

 

The 25-year-old sent his beaten adversary a signed Barcelona shirt with the message: ‘For Gerd Muller, with my respect and admiration. A hug. Leo.’ scrawled into the yellow No 10 on the back of the jersey.

 

Muller was delighted with the gift Messi has shipped to him, and said he was ‘happy and proud’ to be the recipient of such a gesture from 'the best player in the world'.

 

The Bayern reserve team coach, who was a truly fearsome striker for club and country during his playing days, watched Messi’s unparalleled goalscoring run last year earn him another record earlier this month: a fourth Ballon d’Or crown.

 

Barcelona president Sandro Rosell believes that Muller’s goalscoring record was a driving force for the Argentina captain in his bid to score as many goals as possible.

 

He said that Muller’s prolific performance 40 years ago was ‘a great motivating factor and stimulus for Leo.’

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Guest firetotheworks

Guest firetotheworks

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He's starting to remind me of Grandma from Futurama. He seems so sweet and adorable and then you get him playing football and he destroys your life.

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Guest firetotheworks

Guest firetotheworks

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BBI_ZHbCUAEPUBB.jpg:large

 

Didn't know they were that close in terms of total goals scored.

 

Wow. 138 more games = 7 more goals. It's crazy though, because without Messi, Ronaldo's stat is staggering on its own. Messi's is just fucking preposterous.

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Neil

Neil

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BBI_ZHbCUAEPUBB.jpg:large

 

Didn't know they were that close in terms of total goals scored.

 

Wow. 138 more games = 7 more goals. It's crazy though, because without Messi, Ronaldo's stat is staggering on its own. Messi's is just fucking preposterous.

 

Which is exactly why I think it is so impressive. Ronaldo is a phenomenal athlete with an insane goalscoring record. And yet Messi is in a different league, both in terms of ability and the stats.

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ponsaelius

ponsaelius

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2008/09: 5193 minutes played, 43 goals scored or a goal every 120 minutes.

2009/10: 5391 minutes played, 48 goals scored or a goal every 112  minutes.

2010/11: 5562 minutes played, 57 goals scored or a goal every 97.6  minutes.

2011/12: 6035 minutes played, 82 goals scored or a goal every 73.6 minutes.

2012/13: 3292 minutes played, 49 goals scored or a goal every 67.2 minutes.

 

When does this statistic stop improving?

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