Guest Mantis Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Got an issue with the lower sponsorship thing you bring up Wullie. The last negotiations Shepherd had with Adidas was when we were near the top of the table and we were the only Premier League club they had, by the end of his time we were bottom half and they also had Liverpool and Chelsea. Our income is still in line with the clubs we compete with today (Everton, etc). There's no way Shepherd would have been able to do much better post 2007 had he stayed imo. He also said he'd have taken that money for Carroll. I'm not trying to defend Shepherd, I hated him. Our income should be much higher than Villa and Everton because of the size of the stadium and much higher prices than sunderland. Tron's point about Sports Direct is a good one. The club must be losing millions in revenue due to most of the advertising space within SJP being coated in Sports Direct blurb. Interesting point. Does he get the advertising for free? Since Sports Direct is a separate entity from NUFC, SD should be charged the going rate like any other firm, but I bet they are not. We'll see but there will be some who would defend any free advertising on the basis of it being his club, the more he makes, the more he puts in...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Logic Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Why aren't any of the other Premier League clubs using 100% of their income to "finance the general running of the clubs"? Ian, how likely is the strategy you are championing to get us back into the top 6/top 4 of the Premier League? If the answer is "not very" then it's not workable. Because a large number of them are financed by generous benefactors who are happy to throw money at their clubs? Like Stoke and Wolves? Aye, righto. Ok - I'll try again - other clubs weren't trying to correct years of negligent ownership that had created an 100% unsustainable business. Any other examples you'd like me to bat back? How long are you going to bang this drum? Will you still be defending him in 2015 on the basis of "what Shepherd did"? At what point does it become his responsibility seeing as there isn't a contract at the club that wasn't signed under Ashley? I'd agree that there comes a point where Shepherd's mistakes become irrelevant (even if they did set off a chain of catastrophic events). But I am not sure that pointing out that none of the contracts at the club were not signed by Ashley makes a whole lot of difference. He still inherited a mess and has to try and clean up that mess. This will be a popular post. It has to be said if Ashley left the club tomorrow he would leave it in a hell of a lot better condition than the day he took it on. Healthier balance sheet but short on playing staff of right quality. But why worry about squad ability, its only a football club. Your putting words in my mouth there, I do worry about the overall squad ability. Try not to take my post out of the context in which it was made. edit: or should I say, I have concerns. I don't worry about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mantis Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Why aren't any of the other Premier League clubs using 100% of their income to "finance the general running of the clubs"? Ian, how likely is the strategy you are championing to get us back into the top 6/top 4 of the Premier League? If the answer is "not very" then it's not workable. Because a large number of them are financed by generous benefactors who are happy to throw money at their clubs? Like Stoke and Wolves? Aye, righto. Ok - I'll try again - other clubs weren't trying to correct years of negligent ownership that had created an 100% unsustainable business. Any other examples you'd like me to bat back? How long are you going to bang this drum? Will you still be defending him in 2015 on the basis of "what Shepherd did"? At what point does it become his responsibility seeing as there isn't a contract at the club that wasn't signed under Ashley? I'd agree that there comes a point where Shepherd's mistakes become irrelevant (even if they did set off a chain of catastrophic events). But I am not sure that pointing out that none of the contracts at the club were not signed by Ashley makes a whole lot of difference. He still inherited a mess and has to try and clean up that mess. This will be a popular post. It has to be said if Ashley left the club tomorrow he would leave it in a hell of a lot better condition than the day he took it on. Healthier balance sheet but short on playing staff of right quality. But why worry about squad ability, its only a football club. Your putting words in my mouth there, I do worry about the overall squad ability. Try not to take my post out of the context in which it was made. edit: or should I say, I have concerns. I don't worry about it. There are two aspects to the club. Finance, yes we are in a better position. Team, we are a poorer side than the one he bought. Fundamentally I'd want to be enthused by the football rather than the annual release of accounts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueStar Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 This will be a popular post. It has to be said if Ashley left the club tomorrow he would leave it in a hell of a lot better condition than the day he took it on. Even if he takes his 'loan' with him? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Why aren't any of the other Premier League clubs using 100% of their income to "finance the general running of the clubs"? Ian, how likely is the strategy you are championing to get us back into the top 6/top 4 of the Premier League? If the answer is "not very" then it's not workable. Because a large number of them are financed by generous benefactors who are happy to throw money at their clubs? Like Stoke and Wolves? Aye, righto. Ok - I'll try again - other clubs weren't trying to correct years of negligent ownership that had created an 100% unsustainable business. Any other examples you'd like me to bat back? How long are you going to bang this drum? Will you still be defending him in 2015 on the basis of "what Shepherd did"? At what point does it become his responsibility seeing as there isn't a contract at the club that wasn't signed under Ashley? I'd agree that there comes a point where Shepherd's mistakes become irrelevant (even if they did set off a chain of catastrophic events). But I am not sure that pointing out that none of the contracts at the club were not signed by Ashley makes a whole lot of difference. He still inherited a mess and has to try and clean up that mess. This will be a popular post. It has to be said if Ashley left the club tomorrow he would leave it in a hell of a lot better condition than the day he took it on. Healthier balance sheet but short on playing staff of right quality. But why worry about squad ability, its only a football club. Your putting words in my mouth there, I do worry about the overall squad ability. Try not to take my post out of the context in which it was made. edit: or should I say, I have concerns. I don't worry about it. There are two aspects to the club. Finance, yes we are in a better position. Team, we are a poorer side than the one he bought. Fundamentally I'd want to be enthused by the football rather than the annual release of accounts. That remains to be seen, but I suspect you'll be proved wrong on that. Even without the two more signings that will probably happen, I think we're stronger now than we've been for some time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzza Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Why aren't any of the other Premier League clubs using 100% of their income to "finance the general running of the clubs"? Ian, how likely is the strategy you are championing to get us back into the top 6/top 4 of the Premier League? If the answer is "not very" then it's not workable. Because a large number of them are financed by generous benefactors who are happy to throw money at their clubs? Like Stoke and Wolves? Aye, righto. Ok - I'll try again - other clubs weren't trying to correct years of negligent ownership that had created an 100% unsustainable business. Any other examples you'd like me to bat back? How long are you going to bang this drum? Will you still be defending him in 2015 on the basis of "what Shepherd did"? At what point does it become his responsibility seeing as there isn't a contract at the club that wasn't signed under Ashley? I'd agree that there comes a point where Shepherd's mistakes become irrelevant (even if they did set off a chain of catastrophic events). But I am not sure that pointing out that none of the contracts at the club were not signed by Ashley makes a whole lot of difference. He still inherited a mess and has to try and clean up that mess. This will be a popular post. It has to be said if Ashley left the club tomorrow he would leave it in a hell of a lot better condition than the day he took it on. Healthier balance sheet but short on playing staff of right quality. But why worry about squad ability, its only a football club. Your putting words in my mouth there, I do worry about the overall squad ability. Try not to take my post out of the context in which it was made. edit: or should I say, I have concerns. I don't worry about it. There are two aspects to the club. Finance, yes we are in a better position. Team, we are a poorer side than the one he bought. Fundamentally I'd want to be enthused by the football rather than the annual release of accounts. That remains to be seen, but I suspect you'll be proved wrong on that. Even without the two more signings that will probably happen, I think we're stronger now than we've been for some time. If you gave me the option of Kevin Nolan and Andy Carrol in a straight swap for Cabaye and Demba I'm afradi that I would say we were in a worse position... Time will tell? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Why aren't any of the other Premier League clubs using 100% of their income to "finance the general running of the clubs"? Ian, how likely is the strategy you are championing to get us back into the top 6/top 4 of the Premier League? If the answer is "not very" then it's not workable. Because a large number of them are financed by generous benefactors who are happy to throw money at their clubs? Like Stoke and Wolves? Aye, righto. Ok - I'll try again - other clubs weren't trying to correct years of negligent ownership that had created an 100% unsustainable business. Any other examples you'd like me to bat back? How long are you going to bang this drum? Will you still be defending him in 2015 on the basis of "what Shepherd did"? At what point does it become his responsibility seeing as there isn't a contract at the club that wasn't signed under Ashley? I'd agree that there comes a point where Shepherd's mistakes become irrelevant (even if they did set off a chain of catastrophic events). But I am not sure that pointing out that none of the contracts at the club were not signed by Ashley makes a whole lot of difference. He still inherited a mess and has to try and clean up that mess. This will be a popular post. It has to be said if Ashley left the club tomorrow he would leave it in a hell of a lot better condition than the day he took it on. Healthier balance sheet but short on playing staff of right quality. But why worry about squad ability, its only a football club. Your putting words in my mouth there, I do worry about the overall squad ability. Try not to take my post out of the context in which it was made. edit: or should I say, I have concerns. I don't worry about it. There are two aspects to the club. Finance, yes we are in a better position. Team, we are a poorer side than the one he bought. Fundamentally I'd want to be enthused by the football rather than the annual release of accounts. That remains to be seen, but I suspect you'll be proved wrong on that. Even without the two more signings that will probably happen, I think we're stronger now than we've been for some time. If you gave me the option of Kevin Nolan and Andy Carrol in a straight swap for Cabaye and Demba I'm afradi that I would say we were in a worse position... Time will tell? Well I wouldn't agree, and particularly if you add in the returns of Ben Arfa and Gosling, and the arrivals of Marveaux and perhaps Abeid as well. Carroll and Nolan did lead to us playing in a certain way, which was fine for getting promotion and sticking out the first season, but if we want to kick on we need to change our style. The important thing about the new signings is that they'll enable us to play through the midfield a bit more and keep possession more easily. Comparing individual players with one another misses that overall picture. I think this will turn out to be our best side since the Sir Bob days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 So much is dependent on a bunch of players with very little PL experience. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sicko2ndbest Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I can see a £10-12m striker from the continent, probably France. A £5-7m relegated striker (C.Cole, Ba, Doyle, etc) A £4-6m midfielder from France or Holland A £6-7m left-back in if Enrique leaves. ON impressive Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 First and last ones seem a bit optimistic now mind. (fees anyway) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 The way I see it, we have tried to get another striker, and were willing to pay the appropriate fee for Gervinho or Gameiro. They both turned us down in order to join clubs whose prospects seemed better. Fair enough. Do we then lower our sights and go for a striker who's not quite in that bracket? Trouble is, we may want to upgrade in a year's time, when we may be in a position to attract a better player, but the money will already have been committed. We could go for a more expensive striker, but that could mean over-paying them to overcome their reluctance to join. That could backfire as well. Building a team needs a long-term plan, however tempting it may be to cut corners. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Why aren't any of the other Premier League clubs using 100% of their income to "finance the general running of the clubs"? Ian, how likely is the strategy you are championing to get us back into the top 6/top 4 of the Premier League? If the answer is "not very" then it's not workable. Because a large number of them are financed by generous benefactors who are happy to throw money at their clubs? Like Stoke and Wolves? Aye, righto. Ok - I'll try again - other clubs weren't trying to correct years of negligent ownership that had created an 100% unsustainable business. Any other examples you'd like me to bat back? How long are you going to bang this drum? Will you still be defending him in 2015 on the basis of "what Shepherd did"? At what point does it become his responsibility seeing as there isn't a contract at the club that wasn't signed under Ashley? I'd agree that there comes a point where Shepherd's mistakes become irrelevant (even if they did set off a chain of catastrophic events). But I am not sure that pointing out that none of the contracts at the club were not signed by Ashley makes a whole lot of difference. He still inherited a mess and has to try and clean up that mess. This will be a popular post. It has to be said if Ashley left the club tomorrow he would leave it in a hell of a lot better condition than the day he took it on. Healthier balance sheet but short on playing staff of right quality. But why worry about squad ability, its only a football club. Your putting words in my mouth there, I do worry about the overall squad ability. Try not to take my post out of the context in which it was made. edit: or should I say, I have concerns. I don't worry about it. There are two aspects to the club. Finance, yes we are in a better position. Team, we are a poorer side than the one he bought. Fundamentally I'd want to be enthused by the football rather than the annual release of accounts. That remains to be seen, but I suspect you'll be proved wrong on that. Even without the two more signings that will probably happen, I think we're stronger now than we've been for some time. If you gave me the option of Kevin Nolan and Andy Carrol in a straight swap for Cabaye and Demba I'm afradi that I would say we were in a worse position... Time will tell? Well I wouldn't agree, and particularly if you add in the returns of Ben Arfa and Gosling, and the arrivals of Marveaux and perhaps Abeid as well. Carroll and Nolan did lead to us playing in a certain way, which was fine for getting promotion and sticking out the first season, but if we want to kick on we need to change our style. The important thing about the new signings is that they'll enable us to play through the midfield a bit more and keep possession more easily. Comparing individual players with one another misses that overall picture. I think this will turn out to be our best side since the Sir Bob days. That's my take on it as well. I believe it was worth sacrificing Nolan's goals in order to try and move forward. There is a risk involved in changing to a less direct style of play with new players but IMO it's one that had to be taken rather than hang on and play survival football year in year out. My issue is with a bit more investment we could have made the process of changing the way we play a lot more secure by strengthening the squad a bit further. It might still happen, but I wouldn't put money on it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Totally agree with your sentiments there TRon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Same, it's obviously a risk, but I think it was the right decision to let Nolan go and try to evolve our football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 just re-read the OP Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzza Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 I thk that Nolan did a lot more than people are giving him credit for, he hardly ever put a pass astray (4th best passer of ball in Prem!), he covered passing angles and was very good positionally. Yes, his downfall for most of you was his size and lumbering appearance and the question of his fitness, which we now know he carried a knock for the latter part of the season. Jury's still out for me, but Cabaya could be great :) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wally_McFool Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 That remains to be seen, but I suspect you'll be proved wrong on that. Even without the two more signings that will probably happen, I think we're stronger now than we've been for some time. Light in goals.. Thin in defence... Same as last season, we have a decent first team, (on paper at least) but one of the weakest squads in the league. A squad chocka with Championship standard players like Smith, Perch, Raylor, Guthrie, Lovenkrands and Best in it is asking for trouble. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest schmuck Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 That remains to be seen, but I suspect you'll be proved wrong on that. Even without the two more signings that will probably happen, I think we're stronger now than we've been for some time. Light in goals.. Thin in defence... Same as last season, we have a decent first team, (on paper at least) but one of the weakest squads in the league. Where does this come from? Have you seen the other club's squads? Ours is good for where we are, Jonas, Gosling, Wlliamson, Best, Ferguson and 2 of 3 good goalkeepers probably won't be first choice this year, with another striker still to come as well as players with the potential of Vuckic, Kadar and Abeid. How many clubs outside the top 7 actually have good players waiting in the wings? To say we're one of the weakest squads in the league is preposterous, where is this reservoir of depth that you imagine Blackburn, Bolton, Fulham, West Brom et al to have exactly? We're in good shape compared to most. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 We're in good shape compared to most. should be in much, much better shape though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 We're in good shape compared to most. could have been in much, much better shape though It's not like we haven't tried is it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wally_McFool Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 That remains to be seen, but I suspect you'll be proved wrong on that. Even without the two more signings that will probably happen, I think we're stronger now than we've been for some time. Light in goals.. Thin in defence... Same as last season, we have a decent first team, (on paper at least) but one of the weakest squads in the league. Where does this come from? Have you seen the other club's squads? Ours is good for where we are, Jonas, Gosling, Wlliamson, Best, Ferguson and 2 of 3 good goalkeepers probably won't be first choice this year, with another striker still to come as well as players with the potential of Vuckic, Kadar and Abeid. How many clubs outside the top 7 actually have good players waiting in the wings? To say we're one of the weakest squads in the league is preposterous, where is this reservoir of depth that you imagine Blackburn, Bolton, Fulham, West Brom et al to have exactly? We're in good shape compared to most. Oooo, how dare anyone have a different opinion to you. Absolutely preposterous innit? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 That remains to be seen, but I suspect you'll be proved wrong on that. Even without the two more signings that will probably happen, I think we're stronger now than we've been for some time. Light in goals.. Thin in defence... Same as last season, we have a decent first team, (on paper at least) but one of the weakest squads in the league. A squad chocka with Championship standard players like Smith, Perch, Raylor, Guthrie, Lovenkrands and Best in it is asking for trouble. I wouldn't call that 'chocka', from those you have listed only Best and Guthrie would be near the squad at probbaly 4th choice. They afre decent Premiership players too, neither fantastic but can come in and do a job. Even if we did spend all of the Carroll money I doubt we could attract many better than those two to be 4th choice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlacknWhiteArmy Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 I thk that Nolan did a lot more than people are giving him credit for, he hardly ever put a pass astray (4th best passer of ball in Prem!), he covered passing angles and was very good positionally. Yes, his downfall for most of you was his size and lumbering appearance and the question of his fitness, which we now know he carried a knock for the latter part of the season. Jury's still out for me, but Cabaya could be great :) Yeah. I'd go as far as saying his actual midfield contribution was underrated. Rarely misplaced a pass, played quite deep at times. He may not hae been the fittest but he covered a lot of ground and did a large amount of defensive work on top of. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomlkier Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 This would be nice: In: Kevin Gameiro - 10m X Youssef El Arabi - 4m X Stephen Ireland - 4m Marvin Martin - 8m Franck Tabanou - 4m Sebastian Larsson - Free X Expenditure: 30m Out: Peter Lovenkrands - 1m Ryan Taylor - 2m Danny Guthrie - 2m Wayne Routledge - 2m Y James Perch - 1m Sol Campbell - Free Y Income: 8m Net Spend: 22m Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colocho Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Martin and Tabanou for £12 million was very hopeful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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