alexf Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Zaha isnt under rated for me like. The boy's a talent. 15M is steep like but I think he'll become a top player at Man Utd. Fergie is possibly one of the best judges of talent in the world (que for someone to post a picture of Obertan or Bellion) and I couldn't see him shelling out that much if he wasnt sure. The few times I've watched him this season he's been a cut above, especially considering he's recently turned 20. Talking of championship talent, my mate works at pride park and was telling me that Saturday was the 2nd time in a few months Mike Phelan has been at Derby presumably to watch young Will Hughes. Seen him play more than Zaha and although he blows hot and cold, it's frightening to think he's only 17. Quite more than these two tbf. He's had great successes but he's made out to be this master finder of talent when he really isn't and is lucky to be at a club that can fund the fees he pays for youngsters. Hold on a sec I dislike Fergie as much as the next man but I would say Man U are lucky to have him not the other way around no? You know what I mean; had he to operate in a shoestring he wouldn't have "unearthed" as much talent as he's credited for. i know but im saying he was a big reason in why they can afford to spend what they can today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxfree Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 http://www.oddfootball.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/bebe415.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I'm not discussing anything of this; he's a great manager. Obviously he's earnt the right to spend over the odds in youngsters; I just say that he isn't the great finder of talent a lot of the media make him to be, since he just spends a lot on already hyped youngsters and his track record has quite a few expensive blemishes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Well he basically put the club in the position it is, so it can afford to buy people for big money. Exactly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I'm not discussing anything of this; he's a great manager. Obviously he's earnt the right to spend over the odds in youngsters; I just say that he isn't the great finder of talent a lot of the media make him to be, since he just spends a lot on already hyped youngsters and his track record has quite a few expensive blemishes. Yep, that's right. Although, how did he do in the early days when he didn't have so much to spend? I haven't a clue about his early history with them. Given that he built them into the biggest club in the world, he must've done OK. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I'm not discussing anything of this; he's a great manager. Obviously he's earnt the right to spend over the odds in youngsters; I just say that he isn't the great finder of talent a lot of the media make him to be, since he just spends a lot on already hyped youngsters and his track record has quite a few expensive blemishes. Whose doesn't though? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 What top managers are great finders of talent without spending big out of interest? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Has he unearthed any talent at all? Seems to me he just pays massive money for the latest promising youngster. It's fair enough like, he can afford it, but you don't have to be a genius to spot them. ManU fans always spout RONALDOOOO!!!!! when I tell that to them, quite ignoring the fact than a host of other clubs were already after him and he just took the chequebook out and bid an insane amount for a youngster. Credit to him for believing he was worth that much, mind. It was SBR who told Fergie to get Ronaldo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I'm not discussing anything of this; he's a great manager. Obviously he's earnt the right to spend over the odds in youngsters; I just say that he isn't the great finder of talent a lot of the media make him to be, since he just spends a lot on already hyped youngsters and his track record has quite a few expensive blemishes. Yep, that's right. Although, how did he do in the early days when he didn't have so much to spend? I haven't a clue about his early history with them. Given that he built them into the biggest club in the world, he must've done OK. That's a myth about him not having much to spend in the early days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Has he unearthed any talent at all? Seems to me he just pays massive money for the latest promising youngster. It's fair enough like, he can afford it, but you don't have to be a genius to spot them. ManU fans always spout RONALDOOOO!!!!! when I tell that to them, quite ignoring the fact than a host of other clubs were already after him and he just took the chequebook out and bid an insane amount for a youngster. Credit to him for believing he was worth that much, mind. It was SBR who told Fergie to get Ronaldo. As did all of the Man Utd team after he tore them apart in a friendly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Can't wait to see Ferguson coach all of the skill out of Zaha. I don't think Fergie coaches the skill out of his players, in fact most under his tutelage improve a great deal technically - albeit that technical ability is put to an ultra-efficient, practical use. So he definitely counts effectiveness over flair. He likes to buy players who can dribble and beat a player, but then harnesses that innate talent into more common, less flashy, but more impacting game moments like making a yard of space in central midfield to find a pass, or buying time on the ball in and around the penalty area. Basically his approach is to make his signings the most professional player they can possibly be. I'd bet, for instance, that if Man Utd bought Bale we'd see far less of his marauding runs but on the flipside he'd be scoring 20+ league goals a season. Zaha's an interesting one as he looks better on the break with space in front of him. fergie will beef him up and tailor him up to playing in more defined parts of the pitch, not sure he has the technical ability for that but his potential physical attributes are scary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 If there is one thing I admire Fergie for is that he is always willing to shell out and give English youth their chance on the biggest stage. It's an admirable quality & it's notable that all those so called 'poor buys' have generally been foreign & gone on to fail generally everywhere after passing through Man Utd. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Can't wait to see Ferguson coach all of the skill out of Zaha. I don't think Fergie coaches the skill out of his players, in fact most under his tutelage improve a great deal technically - albeit that technical ability is put to an ultra-efficient, practical use. So he definitely counts effectiveness over flair. He likes to buy players who can dribble and beat a player, but then harnesses that innate talent into more common, less flashy, but more impacting game moments like making a yard of space in central midfield to find a pass, or buying time on the ball in and around the penalty area. Basically his approach is to make his signings the most professional player they can possibly be. I'd bet, for instance, that if Man Utd bought Bale we'd see far less of his marauding runs but on the flipside he'd be scoring 20+ league goals a season. Zaha's an interesting one as he looks better on the break with space in front of him. fergie will beef him up and tailor him up to playing in more defined parts of the pitch, not sure he has the technical ability for that but his potential physical attributes are scary. I think Nani is case-in-point of this. Obviously he has technical flair and great ability (yeah, I know some here would disagree), but he's been forced into a complementary role at ManU. And he's not a team-first kind of player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 What top managers are great finders of talent without spending big out of interest? Sevilla were amazing in the 2000s. Won trophies by spending pennies on unknown players than they moved on for millions, replacing them with more el cheapo buys: Alves, Baptista, Ramos,Kanouté, Luís Fabiano... Pellegrini's record at Villarreal and to an extent at Málaga is amazing, too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Can't wait to see Ferguson coach all of the skill out of Zaha. I don't think Fergie coaches the skill out of his players, in fact most under his tutelage improve a great deal technically - albeit that technical ability is put to an ultra-efficient, practical use. So he definitely counts effectiveness over flair. He likes to buy players who can dribble and beat a player, but then harnesses that innate talent into more common, less flashy, but more impacting game moments like making a yard of space in central midfield to find a pass, or buying time on the ball in and around the penalty area. Basically his approach is to make his signings the most professional player they can possibly be. I'd bet, for instance, that if Man Utd bought Bale we'd see far less of his marauding runs but on the flipside he'd be scoring 20+ league goals a season. Zaha's an interesting one as he looks better on the break with space in front of him. fergie will beef him up and tailor him up to playing in more defined parts of the pitch, not sure he has the technical ability for that but his potential physical attributes are scary. I'm not saying there's a problem with it as he turned Ronaldo into the machine that he is today. There's some cases however where he could've allowed players to express themselves a bit more as by taking that away from them you lose some of their natural ability. Rooney being a prime example of this. He's a total flat track bully these days. He was a much better player to watch when he was 18 or 19 playing deeper and running with the ball at defenders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Can't wait to see Ferguson coach all of the skill out of Zaha. I don't think Fergie coaches the skill out of his players, in fact most under his tutelage improve a great deal technically - albeit that technical ability is put to an ultra-efficient, practical use. So he definitely counts effectiveness over flair. He likes to buy players who can dribble and beat a player, but then harnesses that innate talent into more common, less flashy, but more impacting game moments like making a yard of space in central midfield to find a pass, or buying time on the ball in and around the penalty area. Basically his approach is to make his signings the most professional player they can possibly be. I'd bet, for instance, that if Man Utd bought Bale we'd see far less of his marauding runs but on the flipside he'd be scoring 20+ league goals a season. Zaha's an interesting one as he looks better on the break with space in front of him. fergie will beef him up and tailor him up to playing in more defined parts of the pitch, not sure he has the technical ability for that but his potential physical attributes are scary. I agree with that, and I'd say it's a general trend and -ultimately- the best way to maximise a footballer's natural ability. Look at Messi when he broke through compared to now; he keeps things far more simpler. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Has he unearthed any talent at all? Seems to me he just pays massive money for the latest promising youngster. It's fair enough like, he can afford it, but you don't have to be a genius to spot them. ManU fans always spout RONALDOOOO!!!!! when I tell that to them, quite ignoring the fact than a host of other clubs were already after him and he just took the chequebook out and bid an insane amount for a youngster. Credit to him for believing he was worth that much, mind. It was SBR who told Fergie to get Ronaldo. Not true... It was Giggs & Neville iirc... Played SL in a friendly and the senior members of the team told Fergie... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 What top managers are great finders of talent without spending big out of interest? Sevilla were amazing in the 2000s. Won trophies by spending pennies on unknown players than they moved on for millions, replacing them with more el cheapo buys: Alves, Baptista, Ramos,Kanouté, Luís Fabiano... Pellegrini's record at Villarreal and to an extent at Málaga is amazing, too. Can't think of many in the top tier if you like of clubs that do that though. Not sure why people would expect Ferguson to do that with a team as good as Manu? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LooneyToonArmy Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Can't wait to see Ferguson coach all of the skill out of Zaha. I don't think Fergie coaches the skill out of his players, in fact most under his tutelage improve a great deal technically - albeit that technical ability is put to an ultra-efficient, practical use. So he definitely counts effectiveness over flair. I used to love watching Anderson in his Porto days....proper attacking midfielder, bags of skill ,could go past players, shoot.....since he went to Man U he`s been turned into a defensive midfielder and a shadow of his former self. I don`t believe it`s all down to injuries too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 What top managers are great finders of talent without spending big out of interest? Sevilla were amazing in the 2000s. Won trophies by spending pennies on unknown players than they moved on for millions, replacing them with more el cheapo buys: Alves, Baptista, Ramos,Kanouté, Luís Fabiano... Pellegrini's record at Villarreal and to an extent at Málaga is amazing, too. Can't think of many in the top tier if you like of clubs that do that though. Not sure why people would expect Ferguson to do that with a team as good as Manu? I don't see many top tier clubs paying the fees he pays for youngsters, which is what I'm getting at. Top tier clubs usually pay these kind of fees for established players. Dunno, Madrid paid €5m for Canales for example. We paid €3m for Femenía (fortunately)... last starlet to be bought from a Second Division club was €2,5m for the Jonathan Viera transfer to Valencia. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 What top managers are great finders of talent without spending big out of interest? Sevilla were amazing in the 2000s. Won trophies by spending pennies on unknown players than they moved on for millions, replacing them with more el cheapo buys: Alves, Baptista, Ramos,Kanouté, Luís Fabiano... Pellegrini's record at Villarreal and to an extent at Málaga is amazing, too. Can't think of many in the top tier if you like of clubs that do that though. Not sure why people would expect Ferguson to do that with a team as good as Manu? I don't see many top tier clubs paying the fees he pays for youngsters, which is what I'm getting at. Top tier clubs usually pay these kind of fees for established players. Dunno, Madrid paid €5m for Canales for example. I'd argue in England they do pay top money for the youngsters, not saying they are worth it but think of Arsenal, Man City, Bale at Spurs etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinho lad Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I'm not discussing anything of this; he's a great manager. Obviously he's earnt the right to spend over the odds in youngsters; I just say that he isn't the great finder of talent a lot of the media make him to be, since he just spends a lot on already hyped youngsters and his track record has quite a few expensive blemishes. Yep, exactly. If he was that good at it then he would have spotted the talent and potential of the likes of Berbatov, Carrick and Valencia to play for his team before they established themselves with other clubs. (All of them which he could have easily signed well before they actually did.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 What top managers are great finders of talent without spending big out of interest? Sevilla were amazing in the 2000s. Won trophies by spending pennies on unknown players than they moved on for millions, replacing them with more el cheapo buys: Alves, Baptista, Ramos,Kanouté, Luís Fabiano... Pellegrini's record at Villarreal and to an extent at Málaga is amazing, too. Can't think of many in the top tier if you like of clubs that do that though. Not sure why people would expect Ferguson to do that with a team as good as Manu? I don't see many top tier clubs paying the fees he pays for youngsters, which is what I'm getting at. Top tier clubs usually pay these kind of fees for established players. Dunno, Madrid paid €5m for Canales for example. I'd argue in England they do pay top money for the youngsters, not saying they are worth it but think of Arsenal, Man City, Bale at Spurs etc. Fair enough, I may be looking at this with poverty-tinted Spanish glasses. Still think that Fergie just uses ManU's muscle to massively outbid everybody in youngsters that already carry a lot of hype. Except when loses his sanity and buys Bebe. For example Arsenal had to pay only a f***ing 1 million for Fàbregas because they scouted him way before he was known. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Henry From Juventus to Arsenal for £10.5 million (1999) From Arsenal to Barcelona for £16.1 million (2007) Profit: £5.6 million Nasri From Marseille to Arsenal for £15.8 million (2008) From Arsenal to Manchester City for £22 million (2011) Profit: £6.2 million Clichy From Cannes to Arsenal for £250,000 (2003) From Arsenal to Manchester City for £7 million (2011) Profit: £6.75 million Vieira From A.C. Milan to Arsenal for £3.5 million (1996) From Arsenal to Juventus for £13.7 million (2005) Profit: £10.2 million Kolo Toure From ASEC Mimosas to Arsenal for £150,000 (2002) From Arsenal to Manchester City for £16 million (2009) Profit: £15.85 million Adebayor From Monaco to Arsenal for £7 million(2006) From Arsenal to Manchester City for £25 million (2009) Profit: £18 million Overmars From Ajax to Arsenal for £7 million (1997) From Arsenal to Barcelona for £25 million (2000) Profit: £18 million Anelka From Paris Saint-Germain to Arsenal for £500,000 (1997) From Arsenal to Real Madrid for £23 million (1999) Profit: £22.5 million Fabregas From Barcelona to Arsenal for £2.25 million (2003) From Arsenal to Barcelona for £35 million (2011) Profit: £32.75 million Others Ljungberg Halmstads £3,000,000 Kanu Inter £4,500,000 Pires Marseille £6,000,000 Van Persie Feyenoord £2,750,000 (sold for £24m) Diaby Auxerre £2,000,000 Song Bastia £1,000,000 (sold for £15m) Some stinkers as usual, but if you think of what most of these players actually did for Arsenal before being sold, Wenger has to be up there as one of the best buyers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Funnily Wenger seems to f*** it up mostly when he pays a lot for a player. Reyes, Arshavin, Gervinho, probably Giroud... didn't Jeffers cost a pretty penny back then, too? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts