tmonkey Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 He's a mediocre "footballer" outside the box, with inconsistency at the basics being his biggest drawbacks. If he's not switched on and focused, his game turns to s*** easily because he can be so sloppy. His touch has always been unnecessarily heavy when controlling simple passes on the deck throughout his time here, he's frequently having to run an extra yard or two to maintain possession when he should just be trapping the ball neatly. The guy drops deep and works hard, which is commendable, but he does nothing else in this capacity - it's not like he can pick a pass, play slick one-twos, or run past players, so I don't get what others are seeing when they call him a good all-rounder. But he's a different animal inside the box, which probably explains why (imo) his mediocre "footballing" contributions are overlooked. I'd still want us to sell him, despite acknowledging that he's a quality striker in the box who's goals are vital to us right now - the theory behind this is that one would hope we could bring in a genuinely good "footballer" to improve the team's balance and ability to maintain possession/work the flanks/etc, i.e to effectively help the likes of Ben Arfa, Cabaye and Cisse to get into the game more. Bit like upgrading Nolan (goals) with Cabaye (technique). And as far as we know Ba isn't going to be happy sitting on the bench or coming in/out of the side, not at this club anyway. And the reasoning behind this is that based on what we've seen, I think Ba is only suited to long-ball tactics in a flat 4-4-2 system, albeit with a targetman playing in front of him (as opposed to playing as the targetman himself, which he's clearly unsuitable for). Not every striker is compatible with every style of play, so I don't see why this suggestions needs to be such a taboo. The only time we've played decent football on the deck under Pardew was during that infamous period of switching to a 4-3-3 system, and everything seemed to "click" for everyone else other than Ba, who looked like a fish out of water imo - this was both down the left wing and in the middle, as he and Cisse switched positions during games for significant periods, so it's not just about Ba being wide left. He just wasn't making the types of runs or showing the sort of movement that Cisse was which was needed in that system given the different style of play, irrespective of whether he should have scored a goal or two. In short, he's very much a perfect forward for a mid table "kick and rush" team, i.e. the second striker who's running from deep onto either knockdowns from the target man, long balls over the top, or feeding off scraps after the ball gets pumped into the box. He then drops back to help out/chase the opposition down whilst they have possession of the ball, which again is what would be needed from a "kick and rush" team. And that would be the type of football Pardew has set us up to play - let the opposition have possession, we soak the pressure up, get the ball quickly/early into the box, and walk away with a point or three. Just that it's not working very well for obvious reasons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 his first touch has never been any good really. Strange that a footballer can have such great technique when striking a ball in the 18 yard area but not actually be able to control a pass to a decent standard. i disagree slightly. some games his touch is excellent and the ball just sticks to him, others he controls the ball 10yds. he's very inconsistent in that way rather than just being crap at it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 A lot of words. A lot of shit imo there Tmonkey. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zach Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Selling Demba Ba (especially if were going off his 7m release clause) would be mental. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Selling Demba Ba (especially if were going off his 7m release clause) would be mental. if it's going off his releause clause then we don't have a choice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zach Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Selling Demba Ba (especially if were going off his 7m release clause) would be mental. if it's going off his releause clause then we don't have a choice. Well yeah but I was more talking about Tmonkey saying he would want to sell him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Selling Demba Ba (especially if were going off his 7m release clause) would be mental. if it's going off his releause clause then we don't have a choice. Well yeah but I was more talking about Tmonkey saying he would want to sell him. oh right. i'd rather not, however him and cisse playing very orthodox front 2 isn't going to help us in any way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanji Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Demba Ba is the best striker we've had since Alan Shearer. His all-around play was much better last season and he was getting the chances out wide playing left - I don't understand the notion that him playing out wide hurt him. He still had excellent chances to score and he missed every single one via the post, deflection, or poor finishing on his part. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 http://i45.tinypic.com/241kqae.jpg I assume this has changed today but still highlights how important he's been this season. *commence boring formation talk* Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Don't really know what point you're trying to make there. He has scored most of our goals. We know that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 He's important because of how deep the rest of the players are..... Ben Arfa and Cabaye are defending because we are overrun and Cisse is either out wide tracking back or just never in the box. Besides Ba has 2 in his last 8 the same as Cabaye and Cisse.... We all know what the issues are this doesn't prove anything, point is we actually played in a way which suited the players and not tracking back all the time then there would be more threats and we wouldn't have to rely on Ba feeding of knockdowns. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Highest contribution of any player in the league. Papering over them (growing) cracks still. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 So in your head it's a positive that we've only scored 14 goals because it means one player has a higher "contribution"? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 So in your head it's a positive that we've only scored 14 goals because it means one player has a higher "contribution"? Such a child I'm accentuating the positive that SOMEONE is doing something to save us. The manager certainly isn't and very few players are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxfree Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 So in your head it's a positive that we've only scored 14 goals because it means one player has a higher "contribution"? Such a child I'm accentuating the positive that SOMEONE is doing something to save us. The manager certainly isn't and very few players are. He's got two in his last eight games and one of those was a 93rd minute consolation so he's not doing that much. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 So in your head it's a positive that we've only scored 14 goals because it means one player has a higher "contribution"? Such a child I'm accentuating the positive that SOMEONE is doing something to save us. The manager certainly isn't and very few players are. He's got two in his last eight games and one of those was a 93rd minute consolation so he's not doing that much. And the games before those 8? In which we were still playing badly? Aye. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 I'd sooner Ba moved out left so that the team was better equipped to score more goals but as long as you're happy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Still effortlessly childish. Pardew said in the summer that Ba would be through the middle for 95% of the games. Might as well get used to it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ujpest doza Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 So in your head it's a positive that we've only scored 14 goals because it means one player has a higher "contribution"? Such a child I'm accentuating the positive that SOMEONE is doing something to save us. The manager certainly isn't and very few players are. Not for a few games he hasn't mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 The "flick a switch and up we go" attitude is what I'm questioning. There's more to turning an entire season around than just changing a formation. We were 6th going into the West Brom game, high on confidence and well motivation which both obviously lends themselves to the kind of football we briefly played. It's the complete opposite now, like when Keegan's teams lost motivation at the end of a season and the attacking football fell short. While Pardew is desperate for results he's not going to change to a formation he almost definitely only remembers as the one we lost 4-0 with. His defensive minded approach doesn't want attacking football if it might lead to a big defeat. I've never seen anyone exhibiting that attitude, but forgetting that, do you think Pardew should show a bit of faith in the system that brought us our best run of form and results in his entire time here? Especially considering how shit we are. Do you think he should do it? I don't want to hear whether you think he will or not.. Also, do you think he should have started the season playing this way? Given that Cisse was still the in form striker and the way we finished last season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Such a child Just switching to for-free-free isn't magically going to turn them into what we had (briefly) last year. This might confuse the Football Manager players but football isn't just about tactics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 The "flick a switch and up we go" attitude is what I'm questioning. There's more to turning an entire season around than just changing a formation. We were 6th going into the West Brom game, high on confidence and well motivation which both obviously lends themselves to the kind of football we briefly played. It's the complete opposite now, like when Keegan's teams lost motivation at the end of a season and the attacking football fell short. While Pardew is desperate for results he's not going to change to a formation he almost definitely only remembers as the one we lost 4-0 with. His defensive minded approach doesn't want attacking football if it might lead to a big defeat. I've never seen anyone exhibiting that attitude, but forgetting that, do you think Pardew should show a bit of faith in the system that brought us our best run of form and results in his entire time here? Especially considering how s*** we are. Do you think he should do it? I don't want to hear whether you think he will or not.. Also, do you think he should have started the season playing this way? Given that Cisse was still the in form striker and the way we finished last season. it wasn't just the formation, unless you think that 4-3-3 inherently gives movement ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakka Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Still effortlessly childish. Pardew said in the summer that Ba would be through the middle for 95% of the games. Might as well get used to it. Why should we when it's being proven with every passing game as the less effective way to deploy ourselves? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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