Demba Ba (now retired)

[Wullie]

It does beggar belief in that we have two strikers who are fantastic up top but only one who can play a wider role, and he's not the one being asked to do it.

 

Why is it so difficult to grasp? Rooney's a great goalscorer but often plays deeper for the team's benefit. Maybe Fergie should sacrifice that to get him ten more goals a season (and finish third because the team is weaker), personally I doubt it.

[Jagten]

Yep. Whatever you think of Cisse/Ba, it is incredible that we've only used the front 3 of HBA - Cisse - Ba for one half this year.

[Wullie]

Ba's career goal stats prove that he's still able to get goals from wider - he's mainly played there before coming here. He's extremely good at it.

[Cajun]

We've lost five in six with Ba playing up top. Hardly a ringing endorsement.

 

He should have defended better?

It beggars belief? I really can't understand the opinion of Ba on here. Maybe if we paid for him or he scored the goal of the season he would get more credit.

 

I love Ba to bits, it's just obvious to me that he's more suited to the wide role and Cisse is more suited to central. It's completely clear cut IMO.

 

Obviously the alternative is just to drop Cisse completely.

 

Ba was often criticised for his performances out wide last season so it's funny that this season he has suddenly become the natural choice there. Cisse's performances out there haven't been much different on the rare occasion he has played out there.

 

Not sure why Ba is the obvious choice to play there when no-one really rated him out there before, why not play our most in form forward through the middle and the other out wide as it's neither of their natural position?

[cp40]

think we would see the very best of cisse if/when ba leaves. 

I also think the shit form has been down partly to this side show. you have to ask yourself- he scores goals, yes, bus is the shite thats going on, leading to a low league position a price worth paying for those goals.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I was one who said that Ba isn't ideal for a wide role, and I still believe he isn't. In an ideal world he wouldn't have to play there.

 

But he does OK, still gets a fair few chances and it enables the team as a whole to play much better, so for me there's no other option overall.

[Guest reefatoon]

I can't quite understand the sharpening of the pitchforks for Ba on here.  He seems to have become the new bloke to dig and moan at.

[Dave]

I can't quite understand the sharpening of the pitchforks for Ba on here.  He seems to have become the new bloke to dig and moan at.

 

And yet he's the only one doing his job properly.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I can't quite understand the sharpening of the pitchforks for Ba on here.  He seems to have become the new bloke to dig and moan at.

 

And yet he's the only one doing his job properly.

 

I don't see the point in purposefully ignoring and simplifying what people are saying, just so you can make a post like this.

[The College Dropout]

If RVP had played like Cisse, you think he'd still be playing? He's scored 2 league goals ffs, one a total fluke. 0 in the Europa.

 

I would bench him. I reckon Fergie would bench RVP or more accurately Chicharito. Cisse's played up top a lot this season. If Cisse scored some goals there would be a legitimate discussion.

[AlanSkÃrare]

He's been fanastic since we signed him.

 

Many of us suspect that his ego is an issue and that he might be the reason we're not performing well as a team.

 

It's a gamble to get rid of him as he's clearly a beast of a player. I'm more concerned with my team than losing one individual though. He might get 25 goals, but I'd rather have us playing well.

 

I still don't think he's holding us back, and I think Pardew could get us playing well WITH Demba in the side. However, he's proving a problem for Pardew, who really is to blame here. To help him solve that problem, I think we might have to sell him.

[Wullie]

How is it sharpening the pitchforks to say we should try our most successful set up from last season?

 

Cisse has scored in Europe btw.

[Cajun]

I can't quite understand the sharpening of the pitchforks for Ba on here.  He seems to have become the new bloke to dig and moan at.

 

And yet he's the only one doing his job properly.

 

I don't see the point in purposefully ignoring and simplifying what people are saying, just so you can make a post like this.

 

He's right though, Ba is a forward and is scoring goals (the majority of our goals unfortunately). There is this naive belief that the only reason Cisse isn't scoring is because we aren't playing 4-3-3.

 

Pardew is definitely too cautious but I doubt there is a manager in the league who would take the forward who is scoring all the goals in a side struggling to get them and move him out wide to a position he struggled/failed to score from.

 

If Cisse has been banging them away there would be more of a case but he hasn't, you can blame lack of service but Ba is dealing with the same problem.

[colinmk]

I thought Ba's general play was good when he played the wider role last season. It seemed to work when he and Cisse would occasionally swap around during the game too.

[The College Dropout]

I can't quite understand the sharpening of the pitchforks for Ba on here.  He seems to have become the new bloke to dig and moan at.

 

And yet he's the only one doing his job properly.

 

I don't see the point in purposefully ignoring and simplifying what people are saying, just so you can make a post like this.

 

 

the point is unbelievably facile. Had Cisse & Ba swapped positions on Saturday or Monday, would the other 9 players been any better?

 

He's hardly Gareth bloody Bale out wide and atm Cisse isn't Cisse or Ba down the middle.

 

Worst part about this Cisse shit, is that he's played down the middle a fair bit this season.

 

[Guest neesy111]

I can't quite understand the sharpening of the pitchforks for Ba on here.  He seems to have become the new bloke to dig and moan at.

 

And yet he's the only one doing his job properly.

 

I don't see the point in purposefully ignoring and simplifying what people are saying, just so you can make a post like this.

 

He's right though, Ba is a forward and is scoring goals (the majority of our goals unfortunately). There is this naive belief that the only reason Cisse isn't scoring is because we aren't playing 4-3-3.

 

Pardew is definitely too cautious but I doubt there is a manager in the league who would take the forward who is scoring all the goals in a side struggling to get them and move him out wide to a position he struggled/failed to score from.

 

If Cisse has been banging them away there would be more of a case but he hasn't, you can blame lack of service but Ba is dealing with the same problem.

 

Aye.

 

I don't trust Cisse infront of goal at the moment, his composure in the last month has been utterly awful imo.

[The College Dropout]

How is it sharpening the pitchforks to say we should try our most successful set up from last season?

 

Cisse has scored in Europe btw.

 

Oh he's scored once. What's that, 4 goals? Around as many as HBA & Cabaye.

[Cajun]

A lot has also changed since our best form last season. Cabaye is missing, Tiote is playing poorly, Jonas looks to have lost his legs,Ben Arfa in and out of the side.

 

It's not as simple as Ba shifting out to the left and suddenly everything is right again, we start defending better and key players magically heal or find form.

[themanupstairs]

If he goes to Arsenal he'll spend time on the bench...We'll see how that goes Demba Bra.

 

Is this a Norwegian pun by any chance?

[AlanSkÃrare]

A lot has also changed since our best form last season. Cabaye is missing, Tiote is playing poorly, Jonas looks to have lost his legs,Ben Arfa in and out of the side.

 

It's not as simple as Ba shifting out to the left and suddenly everything is right again, we start defending better and key players magically heal or find form.

 

It's not only that.

 

Our style changed back to the way it was when we were awful in January/February.

 

The philosophy and mentality is dreadful. Exposing individulas in defence, relying heavily on Demba and Hatem in attack. No concept what so ever.

[Unbelievable]

I guess what grinds my gears is that people make it sound like it's Demba Ba himself who decides our formation. He doesn't, that's Pardew's job. Here's a striker who scored 16 goals in the first half of last season and is on course for doing it again, playing in a team without much fluidity and hardly creating many chances. Playing in his best position he's capable of 30 goals a season feeding of scraps. I happen to believe that gives him some leeway when it comes to requesting Pardew to be played in his best position. I think every player is willing to occasionally play elsewhere if circumstances (injuries, suspensions) dictate it, but why is it OK to ask him to sacrifice his best attributes for half a season, and not ask Cisse to play out wide for a bit until he refinds his goalscoring touch?

 

The real problem here is not Ba or Cisse, it's Pardew's preference of a 4-4-2 formation (see for example his attempt to bring in Carroll last summer) combined with the fact that despite Ba and Cisse both being excellent strikers individually, as a front two pairing they're not very effective/complimentary as has been proven in the past couple of months unfortunately. Now I'll give Pardew some credit for insisting with a Ba/Cisse pairing for as long as he has, because in theory they could be brilliant and score 50 between them in a season and for large parts of that brilliant last season we actually played 4-4-2, were fairly solid and got the results through individual brilliance and lethal finishing of mainly the two above mentioned strikers.

 

At this point though, he needs to analyse the situation and come up with a suitable solution. In the last three matches he’s tried Cisse out wide, which has led to somewhat improved team performances, but not results, and to be fair Cisse is not a wide player at all. I can’t see this being the long term solution, although I personally agree that Ba needs to be playing as a central striker at the moment because of his excellent goalscoring form and Cisse’s lack of it. It will be interesting to see what happens in the January transfer window. The Ba contract situation may force Pardew’s hand of course, but I for one hope he stays and we try our hardest to get the best possible forward in to complement our existing options up top. Whether that will be a 4-4-2 type battering ram target man (Carroll type), a pacey forward capable of playing wide (Remy type?) or maybe even nobody at all will tell us a lot about the current level of ambition of the club and the long term type of football Pardew has in stock. I’ll be honest here, I’m 90% about results and 10% about aesthetics, as I can say hand on heart I quite enjoyed our physical, hard working style of Hughton’s group of lads despite not always being the most beautiful to watch. For our sake though, I hope he gets it right as what he’s tried so far this season clearly isn’t working, and that is not Ba OR Cisse’s fault, it’s a matter of lack of gameplan first and foremost.

 

[Guest reefatoon]

How is it sharpening the pitchforks to say we should try our most successful set up from last season?

 

Cisse has scored in Europe btw.

 

This is a whole new season though.  Cisse is not firing at all, Ba is putting the ball in the net, only a moron would change that.  It isn't Ba's fault that Cisse has been missing sitters and chances that last season he put away.

 

It's just a bit of a witch hunt on Ba's behalf for some reason, can't quite fathom it out as the lad gives 100% every game and is one of the few players doing what he should.

 

But going by you, fuck it eh, lets drop him to the left and hoy Cisse up front, and if by magic the form of last season will just come flooding back.  If only it was that simple eh.

[The College Dropout]

I can't quite understand the sharpening of the pitchforks for Ba on here.  He seems to have become the new bloke to dig and moan at.

 

And yet he's the only one doing his job properly.

 

I don't see the point in purposefully ignoring and simplifying what people are saying, just so you can make a post like this.

 

He's right though, Ba is a forward and is scoring goals (the majority of our goals unfortunately). There is this naive belief that the only reason Cisse isn't scoring is because we aren't playing 4-3-3.

 

Pardew is definitely too cautious but I doubt there is a manager in the league who would take the forward who is scoring all the goals in a side struggling to get them and move him out wide to a position he struggled/failed to score from.

 

If Cisse has been banging them away there would be more of a case but he hasn't, you can blame lack of service but Ba is dealing with the same problem.

 

 

Thank you. Thank you so much.

 

Cisse has had chances and missed them this season. I've never heard of a #9 who can only score in a 4-3-3. A striker who plays on the shoulder of the last defender has excuses made for him because he's unable to score in a partnership. Beggars belief.

 

2. You actually get people here saying that our low chance creation style of football suits Ba over Cisse.

 

Nobody here wants to admit that, Cisse being shit has a lot to do with Cisse being shit. He'll come good like. But I hope it's from the bench.

[The College Dropout]

A lot has also changed since our best form last season. Cabaye is missing, Tiote is playing poorly, Jonas looks to have lost his legs,Ben Arfa in and out of the side.

 

It's not as simple as Ba shifting out to the left and suddenly everything is right again, we start defending better and key players magically heal or find form.

 

Yep. Scapegoat. We kept loads of clean sheets last season, this season we haven't. I suppose that's greedy Demba's fault too.

[Guest reefatoon]

A lot has also changed since our best form last season. Cabaye is missing, Tiote is playing poorly, Jonas looks to have lost his legs,Ben Arfa in and out of the side.

 

It's not as simple as Ba shifting out to the left and suddenly everything is right again, we start defending better and key players magically heal or find form.

 

Yep. Scapegoat. We kept loads of clean sheets last season, this season we haven't. I suppose that's greedy Demba's fault too.

 

Exactly, I just can't work it out.  After the way most of our team have played this season, Ba is is probably the last player we can moan on about.