Demba Ba (now retired)

[Beren]

I really want to love Demba and want him to stay as he is our best striker since Shearer BUT this stuff off the pitch from his side is an absolute farce and I'm growing sick and tired of it.

 

He's a mercenary, if he signs a new contract then I'll change that opinion.

 

Does assessing his options make him a mercenary? If he were underperforming/doing a Tevez/refusing to play then I think you'd have a case, but in terms of his job performance, he's been exemplary.

 

It's the management and above that are acting poorly. We don't like his agents from our biased point of view, but in terms of how they're providing options for their client, they're doing well. Especially since the club's management haven't delivered on promises of exciting football/ambition. Not selflessly, obviously, as they are taking a good cut off every transaction.

 

He is responsible for employing at least some of those who purport to represent him, and has not issued any come and get me pleas AFAIK*  - though I'm not sure I'd blame him if he did, at this point. We're a sinking ship with Pardew.

 

* (this latest Arsenal thing sounds like a response to speculation, and he commented that Arsenal are a great club - which is true)

 

I also don't buy in to this 'poor body language' stuff. He has moments of selfishness in his play, but I'd get frustrated with zero support/movement and take things on myself (had I his ability ) too. Especially when he's in the form he is in. He's entitled to take on whatever he wants the way he is playing, and the way Cisse isn't!

 

Those who see him to be a mercenary for this can shortly expect to feel the same about HBA/Krul/Cabaye over the coming year or so, sadly, IMO.

[Dokko]

I guess what grinds my gears is that people make it sound like it's Demba Ba himself who decides our formation. He doesn't, that's Pardew's job. Here's a striker who scored 16 goals in the first half of last season and is on course for doing it again, playing in a team without much fluidity and hardly creating many chances. Playing in his best position he's capable of 30 goals a season feeding of scraps. I happen to believe that gives him some leeway when it comes to requesting Pardew to be played in his best position. I think every player is willing to occasionally play elsewhere if circumstances (injuries, suspensions) dictate it, but why is it OK to ask him to sacrifice his best attributes for half a season, and not ask Cisse to play out wide for a bit until he refinds his goalscoring touch?

 

The real problem here is not Ba or Cisse, it's Pardew's preference of a 4-4-2 formation (see for example his attempt to bring in Carroll last summer) combined with the fact that despite Ba and Cisse both being excellent strikers individually, as a front two pairing they're not very effective/complimentary as has been proven in the past couple of months unfortunately. Now I'll give Pardew some credit for insisting with a Ba/Cisse pairing for as long as he has, because in theory they could be brilliant and score 50 between them in a season and for large parts of that brilliant last season we actually played 4-4-2, were fairly solid and got the results through individual brilliance and lethal finishing of mainly the two above mentioned strikers.

 

At this point though, he needs to analyse the situation and come up with a suitable solution. In the last three matches he’s tried Cisse out wide, which has led to somewhat improved team performances, but not results, and to be fair Cisse is not a wide player at all. I can’t see this being the long term solution, although I personally agree that Ba needs to be playing as a central striker at the moment because of his excellent goalscoring form and Cisse’s lack of it. It will be interesting to see what happens in the January transfer window. The Ba contract situation may force Pardew’s hand of course, but I for one hope he stays and we try our hardest to get the best possible forward in to complement our existing options up top. Whether that will be a 4-4-2 type battering ram target man (Carroll type), a pacey forward capable of playing wide (Remy type?) or maybe even nobody at all will tell us a lot about the current level of ambition of the club and the long term type of football Pardew has in stock. I’ll be honest here, I’m 90% about results and 10% about aesthetics, as I can say hand on heart I quite enjoyed our physical, hard working style of Hughton’s group of lads despite not always being the most beautiful to watch. For our sake though, I hope he gets it right as what he’s tried so far this season clearly isn’t working, and that is not Ba OR Cisse’s fault, it’s a matter of lack of gameplan first and foremost.

 

http://www.vingsstuff.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/peter-griffin1.jpg

[AyeDubbleYoo]

He's definitely a mercenary, but I don't hold it against him really. Not many footballers have actual attachments to their club, sadly.

[Guest neesy111]

Overtook Michael Owen at the weekend in league goals scored for us.

[Beren]

He's definitely a mercenary, but I don't hold it against him really. Not many footballers have actual attachments to their club, sadly.

 

Maybe we have different takes on the connotations of 'mercenary' then which seems like a semantic issue unworthy of discussion (at least on the Football board! GC is always good fun though)

[Fenham Mag]

Overtook Michael Owen at the weekend in league goals scored for us.

 

Shows how poor Owen was for us.

[Guest JS]

If he goes to Arsenal he'll spend time on the bench...We'll see how that goes Demba Bra.

 

Is this a Norwegian pun by any chance?

 

[steve_69]

Looking at the clubs he's been at throughout his career I wouldn't begrudge him the chance to play Champions League football with one of the big four. We also know we don't pay the biggest wages in the league and he's probably looking to earn as much as he can with what will probably be his last big contract of his career.

 

I do, however, get really pissed off when his agents attempt to put pressure on the club to play him in his favoured position while at the same time trying to hawk him out to the highest bidder.  Ba could put a stop to that shit if he wanted to because he employs the people behind it.

 

Good player and i'd like him to stay but not if it means his agents are going to try and orchestrate a move for him every time the window comes around.

[Kanj]

Not this "it would be an honour to see him play for one of the big four" crap again.

[STM]

Worst of it is, none of the "big four" will touch him. He will end up at Liverpool on stupid wages or QPR under dodgy-harry on... stupid wages.

[Mick]

We've lost five in six with Ba playing up top. Hardly a ringing endorsement.

 

He should have defended better?

It beggars belief? I really can't understand the opinion of Ba on here. Maybe if we paid for him or he scored the goal of the season he would get more credit.

 

I love Ba to bits, it's just obvious to me that he's more suited to the wide role and Cisse is more suited to central. It's completely clear cut IMO.

 

Obviously the alternative is just to drop Cisse completely.

 

Ba was often criticised for his performances out wide last season so it's funny that this season he has suddenly become the natural choice there. Cisse's performances out there haven't been much different on the rare occasion he has played out there.

 

Not sure why Ba is the obvious choice to play there when no-one really rated him out there before, why not play our most in form forward through the middle and the other out wide as it's neither of their natural position?

That's not true, I praised BA last season when he played wide and I would be surprised if others hadn't.

[Tooj]

Aye I can't remember Ba getting much stick at all when he was playing wide left.

[Dr Venkman]

It's Pardews fault all of this, Ba should have been told in the Summer that he'd play where he was told, if that lead to him leaving then so be it. Then it would have been Ashleys fault when he wasnt replaced.

[Cajun]

[Jack Flash]

Would we be playing Carroll on the wing if we'd signed him to placate greedy Demba?

[colinmk]

Aye I can't remember Ba getting much stick at all when he was playing wide left.

 

He missed a few scoring chances but apart from that his overall play was good. It was even working when Cisse would switch with him now and again during the game.

[AlanSkÃrare]

Would we be playing Carroll on the wing if we'd signed him to placate greedy Demba?

 

He'd be more suited to it than Shola so yes, probably.

[steve_69]

Not this "it would be an honour to see him play for one of the big four" crap again.

 

It wouldn't be a honour to see him play for one at all, but you can't begrudge any footballer wanting to try his hand at Champions League football. We might have been able to offer him that had we strengthened this summer but we didn't.

 

Anyone who says it would be an honour to see one of their best players turn out for another team is a fucking moron.  However, anyone who can't appreciate why the player might want to play somewhere else is also a fucking moron.

[Kanj]

- Your comment I was referring to didn't at all explain your feelings as well as you did just now.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I guess what grinds my gears is that people make it sound like it's Demba Ba himself who decides our formation. He doesn't, that's Pardew's job. Here's a striker who scored 16 goals in the first half of last season and is on course for doing it again, playing in a team without much fluidity and hardly creating many chances. Playing in his best position he's capable of 30 goals a season feeding of scraps. I happen to believe that gives him some leeway when it comes to requesting Pardew to be played in his best position. I think every player is willing to occasionally play elsewhere if circumstances (injuries, suspensions) dictate it, but why is it OK to ask him to sacrifice his best attributes for half a season, and not ask Cisse to play out wide for a bit until he refinds his goalscoring touch?

 

The real problem here is not Ba or Cisse, it's Pardew's preference of a 4-4-2 formation (see for example his attempt to bring in Carroll last summer) combined with the fact that despite Ba and Cisse both being excellent strikers individually, as a front two pairing they're not very effective/complimentary as has been proven in the past couple of months unfortunately. Now I'll give Pardew some credit for insisting with a Ba/Cisse pairing for as long as he has, because in theory they could be brilliant and score 50 between them in a season and for large parts of that brilliant last season we actually played 4-4-2, were fairly solid and got the results through individual brilliance and lethal finishing of mainly the two above mentioned strikers.

 

At this point though, he needs to analyse the situation and come up with a suitable solution. In the last three matches he’s tried Cisse out wide, which has led to somewhat improved team performances, but not results, and to be fair Cisse is not a wide player at all. I can’t see this being the long term solution, although I personally agree that Ba needs to be playing as a central striker at the moment because of his excellent goalscoring form and Cisse’s lack of it. It will be interesting to see what happens in the January transfer window. The Ba contract situation may force Pardew’s hand of course, but I for one hope he stays and we try our hardest to get the best possible forward in to complement our existing options up top. Whether that will be a 4-4-2 type battering ram target man (Carroll type), a pacey forward capable of playing wide (Remy type?) or maybe even nobody at all will tell us a lot about the current level of ambition of the club and the long term type of football Pardew has in stock. I’ll be honest here, I’m 90% about results and 10% about aesthetics, as I can say hand on heart I quite enjoyed our physical, hard working style of Hughton’s group of lads despite not always being the most beautiful to watch. For our sake though, I hope he gets it right as what he’s tried so far this season clearly isn’t working, and that is not Ba OR Cisse’s fault, it’s a matter of lack of gameplan first and foremost.

 

Fantastic post and good all-round analysis.

 

Btw the £ thing in the title is bad taste, there is no way Ba is greedy or a mercenary. A mercenary is someone like Michael Owen.

[Parky]

I guess what grinds my gears is that people make it sound like it's Demba Ba himself who decides our formation. He doesn't, that's Pardew's job. Here's a striker who scored 16 goals in the first half of last season and is on course for doing it again, playing in a team without much fluidity and hardly creating many chances. Playing in his best position he's capable of 30 goals a season feeding of scraps. I happen to believe that gives him some leeway when it comes to requesting Pardew to be played in his best position. I think every player is willing to occasionally play elsewhere if circumstances (injuries, suspensions) dictate it, but why is it OK to ask him to sacrifice his best attributes for half a season, and not ask Cisse to play out wide for a bit until he refinds his goalscoring touch?

 

The real problem here is not Ba or Cisse, it's Pardew's preference of a 4-4-2 formation (see for example his attempt to bring in Carroll last summer) combined with the fact that despite Ba and Cisse both being excellent strikers individually, as a front two pairing they're not very effective/complimentary as has been proven in the past couple of months unfortunately. Now I'll give Pardew some credit for insisting with a Ba/Cisse pairing for as long as he has, because in theory they could be brilliant and score 50 between them in a season and for large parts of that brilliant last season we actually played 4-4-2, were fairly solid and got the results through individual brilliance and lethal finishing of mainly the two above mentioned strikers.

 

At this point though, he needs to analyse the situation and come up with a suitable solution. In the last three matches he’s tried Cisse out wide, which has led to somewhat improved team performances, but not results, and to be fair Cisse is not a wide player at all. I can’t see this being the long term solution, although I personally agree that Ba needs to be playing as a central striker at the moment because of his excellent goalscoring form and Cisse’s lack of it. It will be interesting to see what happens in the January transfer window. The Ba contract situation may force Pardew’s hand of course, but I for one hope he stays and we try our hardest to get the best possible forward in to complement our existing options up top. Whether that will be a 4-4-2 type battering ram target man (Carroll type), a pacey forward capable of playing wide (Remy type?) or maybe even nobody at all will tell us a lot about the current level of ambition of the club and the long term type of football Pardew has in stock. I’ll be honest here, I’m 90% about results and 10% about aesthetics, as I can say hand on heart I quite enjoyed our physical, hard working style of Hughton’s group of lads despite not always being the most beautiful to watch. For our sake though, I hope he gets it right as what he’s tried so far this season clearly isn’t working, and that is not Ba OR Cisse’s fault, it’s a matter of lack of gameplan first and foremost.

 

Fantastic post and good all-round analysis.

 

Btw the £ thing in the title is bad taste, there is no way Ba is greedy or a mercenary. A mercenary is someone like Michael Owen.

 

So, what do you make of him getting £3m of any transfer?

 

Even a cursory perusal of his anitics shows he inteded to stay a very short time at Newcastle and is probably dissapointed he heasn't already been snapped up. The one game he was benched all hell broke lose from here to Africa (agents, relatives, friends all jumped up and down with outrage). Orchestrated? Clearly.

[Cajun]

Tbf he didn't give himself that contract.

 

I will be calling him a mercenary cunt if he rocks up at QPR by the way, just so I can't be called a backtracker if it happens

[Jack Flash]

Tbf he didn't give himself that contract.

 

No, it's definitely Ba fault. Not the clowns who gave in to his stupid "half the fee" demand and put that horrendous transfer clause in the contract.

 

Not the first time media spin has been used to turn our players against us either.

[Parky]

Tbf he didn't give himself that contract.

 

No, it's definitely Ba fault. Not the clowns who gave in to his stupid "half the fee" demand and put that horrendous transfer clause in the contract.

 

Not the first time media spin has been used to turn our players against us either.

 

Think at the time they were thinking they were getting him on the cheap and he was a bit of a gamble (the knee). It's also clear that part of his wages is on a pay and play basis. This is the bit he wants taken out and of course the doubling of wages.

For us at the time it was a good deal (and turned out to be a great one) if a little short term in the thinking. He was definitely thinking short term anyway.

Can't wait to see who's gonna offer him 80k.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I don't really understand this 'turn our players against us' argument at all. Ashley is no angel, but neither are most footballers either. And their agents are even worse.

 

My view on his contract was that someone would have already activated his clause if it was such a great deal. There must be all sorts of dodgy elements to it (and his fitness) that is putting people off.