Guest Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I disagree with the Enrique 'tweet' but his sentiments are correct, we're settling. The lad is obviosuly ambitious, he wants to see the club push on and challange for a European place and as a fan I want to see the same. I was willing to give Ashley a chance this summer and granted it isn't over yet, but so far he's yet again failed to deliver. Yes the squad is better, but it could be better still with substantial investment. Why settle for a mid-table finish when we could be so much more with a bit of investment, investment which was all but promised following the Carroll sale. Top sides carry debt because they invest in quality, yet we seem to have bought into this notion that we're in some form of financial crisis. There's nothing wrong with a running a tight ship, similarly it's accepted the market has gone a bit mental but at the same time failing to re-invest any of what you've brought in when there's genuine quality about is bad crack. Buy cheap, sell big, it looks to be the future, and it that will do little to convince the likes of Enrique we're going anywhere fast. It's a method which every club outside of the top 6 is adopting, not just us though, and most of the clubs around us weren't bleeding money the way we were 5-6 years ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Whilst our signings have improved the squad, we're wasting a fantastic opportunity. The problem isn't that we've not got better, it's that we've not got better enough. It's a shame, but not exactly surprising. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I disagree with the Enrique 'tweet' but his sentiments are correct, we're settling. The lad is obviosuly ambitious, he wants to see the club push on and challange for a European place and as a fan I want to see the same. I was willing to give Ashley a chance this summer and granted it isn't over yet, but so far he's yet again failed to deliver. Yes the squad is better, but it could be better still with substantial investment. Why settle for a mid-table finish when we could be so much more with a bit of investment, investment which was all but promised following the Carroll sale. Top sides carry debt because they invest in quality, yet we seem to have bought into this notion that we're in some form of financial crisis. There's nothing wrong with a running a tight ship, similarly it's accepted the market has gone a bit mental but at the same time failing to re-invest any of what you've brought in when there's genuine quality about is bad crack. Buy cheap, sell big, it looks to be the future, and it that will do little to convince the likes of Enrique we're going anywhere fast. Spot on. Nothing wrong with searching out the odd bargain but if you want genuine quality then you need to spend some brass. The squad has been improved on a shoestring which is why it's so frustrating to think we have the Carroll cash still sitting there but the owners are unwilling to spend it to push us on even further. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Has it been mentioned in France that we've agreed a fee with PSG? Apart from the stuff that Leonardo was supposed to sit down and discuss with our fuckers? I know it's been mentioned by the english press that a fee has been agreed, not very reliable though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Carrying some debt is fine, it's the amount the sustainability of it that's the problem. As well as the rate that it's increasing. Obviously it's still a balance of risk and prudence like, Ashley might be avoiding the risk of over spending but he's also increasing the risk of the club under performing, unless he continues to unearth Tiote-esque signings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sifu Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I disagree with the Enrique 'tweet' but his sentiments are correct, we're settling. The lad is obviosuly ambitious, he wants to see the club push on and challange for a European place and as a fan I want to see the same. I was willing to give Ashley a chance this summer and granted it isn't over yet, but so far he's yet again failed to deliver. Yes the squad is better, but it could be better still with substantial investment. Why settle for a mid-table finish when we could be so much more with a bit of investment, investment which was all but promised following the Carroll sale. Top sides carry debt because they invest in quality, yet we seem to have bought into this notion that we're in some form of financial crisis. There's nothing wrong with a running a tight ship, similarly it's accepted the market has gone a bit mental but at the same time failing to re-invest any of what you've brought in when there's genuine quality about is bad crack. Buy cheap, sell big, it looks to be the future, and it that will do little to convince the likes of Enrique we're going anywhere fast. Guess it's no surprise that Ashley has become very stingy with money tbh considering his past antics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Heneage Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I agree with the sentiment of what Prophet is saying. However I do find it a bit baffling that people expect Ashley to invest in the club when he's not only been roundly abused (rightly or wrongly) including being called a rapist during his tenure here. How can you seriously expect a man to put more of his own fortune in when the fans quite openly have called you worse than shit? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I disagree with the Enrique 'tweet' but his sentiments are correct, we're settling. The lad is obviosuly ambitious, he wants to see the club push on and challange for a European place and as a fan I want to see the same. I was willing to give Ashley a chance this summer and granted it isn't over yet, but so far he's yet again failed to deliver. Yes the squad is better, but it could be better still with substantial investment. Why settle for a mid-table finish when we could be so much more with a bit of investment, investment which was all but promised following the Carroll sale. Top sides carry debt because they invest in quality, yet we seem to have bought into this notion that we're in some form of financial crisis. There's nothing wrong with a running a tight ship, similarly it's accepted the market has gone a bit mental but at the same time failing to re-invest any of what you've brought in when there's genuine quality about is bad crack. Buy cheap, sell big, it looks to be the future, and it that will do little to convince the likes of Enrique we're going anywhere fast. It's a method which every club outside of the top 6 is adopting, not just us though. 1)We should be aiming to be in that top six. It's not going to happen overnight but it's never going to happen if you don't spend a bit of cash. There's a reason those clubs are outside the top six 2) The only clubs that have sold players for substantial sums thus far are Villa and Sunderland, they have/are re-investing it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I'll tell you my problem, and why I've had such a sharp change of view in recent weeks. We're not that far off having a really quality side and a good squad that I'd be proud of. That's what's really frustrating. We're so close yet so far away. And it's been that way for years under Ashley. Every time it looks like we're getting closer closer to breaking back into the top six, he pulls the rug from beneath us and we go crashing back down. Keegan, Shearer, Hughton, Carroll, Nolan, this window. Every time we smell success, we end up further back than where we started and it's annoying the hell out of me. We've improved the squad no doubt this season and we've barely spent a penny. Imagine what we could do if we spent the £35m we made from Carroll, if we bought a proper promising striker like Sturridge and a player of genuine flair and quality like N'Zogbia. An upgrade at the back and we'd crack the top six this season, I've no doubt about it. But no, we're in a financial mess. We've got no money etc. Ashley has sold off alot of the top earners, stopped us spending as much, pumped so much money into the club and we're still broke. Hmmm. I've had enough. Just sell up and fuck off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 £10million won't go far though on a squad that requires at the bare minimum one proven top drawer striker and cover for left back... That £10m was just for the striker though, there was the Neil Taylor interest that coincided with it at the time. So that's at least £11m for pure transfers and goodness knows how much else when every other aspect under the sun has been included in the figure (which tends to be the way we're doing things on here these days). As I keep saying, I'm happy enough with another quality striker, cover for left-back, a replacement for Jose if he goes and then a further centre-back and right-back. However, things should have been better than that considering the wedge we got for Carroll. Can't see more than two from that list coming in, which isn't enough IMO. Aye, I'd agree it wouldn't be, but let's not count our chickens just yet. I keep falling into dips of pessimism about the way things are going again during this "lull" period we're having, but then I think that even with HBA out we're looking at a potential front six of Jonas, Tiote, Cabaye, Barton, Ba and Erdinç for the early part of the season (if nobody else gets crocked before then, obviously). With Marveaux, Gosling, Best and Ameobi potentially on the bench as support to that. I know a few of those aren't proven in the shirt and one of them isn't even signed on yet, but it looks pretty good to me, especially when you add in the exciting layer of potential behind them in Abeid, Ferguson, Ranger (tin hat) and Vuckic, added to the eventual return of Hatem. This could have included Gameiro, Gervinho, Matuidi, N'Zogbia and Sturridge - admittedly not all five - and it would have looked even better, though, which is where some of the understandable frustration appears to be coming from. We've definitely been in for at least two of those, and quite possibly for all of them. I seem to be one of the few, but it is genuinely the backline I'm most worried about. I'm perfectly happy with the five senior ones we do have (even Danny boy), but there's literally fuck all backing them up. Get this fella signed, shift some of the chaff that is of no use nor ornament and then move onto the defence. Hopefully the likes of Gosling and Marveaux will stay fit and surprise a few with their ability. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 V I disagree with the Enrique 'tweet' but his sentiments are correct, we're settling. The lad is obviosuly ambitious, he wants to see the club push on and challange for a European place and as a fan I want to see the same. I was willing to give Ashley a chance this summer and granted it isn't over yet, but so far he's yet again failed to deliver. Yes the squad is better, but it could be better still with substantial investment. Why settle for a mid-table finish when we could be so much more with a bit of investment, investment which was all but promised following the Carroll sale. Top sides carry debt because they invest in quality, yet we seem to have bought into this notion that we're in some form of financial crisis. There's nothing wrong with a running a tight ship, similarly it's accepted the market has gone a bit mental but at the same time failing to re-invest any of what you've brought in when there's genuine quality about is bad crack. Buy cheap, sell big, it looks to be the future, and it that will do little to convince the likes of Enrique we're going anywhere fast. It's a method which every club outside of the top 6 is adopting, not just us though. 1)We should be aiming to be in that top six. It's not going to happen overnight but it's never going to happen if you don't spend a bit of cash. There's a reason those clubs are outside the top six 2) The only clubs that have sold players for substantial sums thus far are Villa and Sunderland, they have/are re-investing it. After the prospective Erding & N'Zogbia transfers, Villa will be £17m in profit since June 2010, Sunderland will be £7m in profit (but would you have been happy with their transfer dealings?), and we'll be £16m in profit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I'll tell you my problem, and why I've had such a sharp change of view in recent weeks. We're not that far off having a really quality side and a good squad that I'd be proud of. That's what's really frustrating. We're so close yet so far away. And it's been that way for years under Ashley. Every time it looks like we're getting closer closer to breaking back into the top six, he pulls the rug from beneath us and we go crashing back down. Keegan, Shearer, Hughton, Carroll, Nolan, this window. Every time we smell success, we end up further back than where we started and it's annoying the hell out of me. We've improved the squad no doubt this season and we've barely spent a penny. Imagine what we could do if we spent the £35m we made from Carroll, if we bought a proper promising striker like Sturridge and a player of genuine flair and quality like N'Zogbia. An upgrade at the back and we'd crack the top six this season, I've no doubt about it. But no, we're in a financial mess. We've got no money etc. Ashley has sold off alot of the top earners, stopped us spending as much, pumped so much money into the club and we're still broke. Hmmm. I've had enough. Just sell up and fuck off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I'll tell you my problem, and why I've had such a sharp change of view in recent weeks. We're not that far off having a really quality side and a good squad that I'd be proud of. That's what's really frustrating. We're so close yet so far away. And it's been that way for years under Ashley. Every time it looks like we're getting closer closer to breaking back into the top six, he pulls the rug from beneath us and we go crashing back down. Keegan, Shearer, Hughton, Carroll, Nolan, this window. Every time we smell success, we end up further back than where we started and it's annoying the hell out of me. We've improved the squad no doubt this season and we've barely spent a penny. Imagine what we could do if we spent the £35m we made from Carroll, if we bought a proper promising striker like Sturridge and a player of genuine flair and quality like N'Zogbia. An upgrade at the back and we'd crack the top six this season, I've no doubt about it. But no, we're in a financial mess. We've got no money etc. Ashley has sold off alot of the top earners, stopped us spending as much, pumped so much money into the club and we're still broke. Hmmm. I've had enough. Just sell up and fuck off. I know what you're saying, but I think the fact we're not far off having a really good squad is also a positive. We're not as good as we could be, but we're not as bad as some of Ashley's mistakes might have made us either. For better or worse, he has been in charge long enough to take some of the credit if he has to get all of the criticism. He knows nothing about running a football club, maybe he is learning. It's not fast enough for the fans really, but it's better than things only getting worse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I agree with the sentiment of what Prophet is saying. However I do find it a bit baffling that people expect Ashley to invest in the club when he's not only been roundly abused (rightly or wrongly) including being called a rapist during his tenure here. How can you seriously expect a man to put more of his own fortune in when the fans quite openly have called you worse than s***? He should expect reaction to his actions, and his actions have done nothing but make a mockery of our support 75% of the time. So this argument is a load of shit, in my opinion. No offence like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I'll tell you my problem, and why I've had such a sharp change of view in recent weeks. We're not that far off having a really quality side and a good squad that I'd be proud of. That's what's really frustrating. We're so close yet so far away. And it's been that way for years under Ashley. Every time it looks like we're getting closer closer to breaking back into the top six, he pulls the rug from beneath us and we go crashing back down. Keegan, Shearer, Hughton, Carroll, Nolan, this window. Every time we smell success, we end up further back than where we started and it's annoying the hell out of me. We've improved the squad no doubt this season and we've barely spent a penny. Imagine what we could do if we spent the £35m we made from Carroll, if we bought a proper promising striker like Sturridge and a player of genuine flair and quality like N'Zogbia. An upgrade at the back and we'd crack the top six this season, I've no doubt about it. But no, we're in a financial mess. We've got no money etc. Ashley has sold off alot of the top earners, stopped us spending as much, pumped so much money into the club and we're still broke. Hmmm. I've had enough. Just sell up and f*** off. I know what you're saying, but I think the fact we're not far off having a really good squad is also a positive. We're not as good as we could be, but we're not as bad as some of Ashley's mistakes might have made us either. For better or worse, he has been in charge long enough to take some of the credit if he has to get all of the criticism. He knows nothing about running a football club, maybe he is learning. It's not fast enough for the fans really, but it's better than things only getting worse. That was my original opinion too, but these 'mistakes'/controversial decisions are happening too frequently. He's taking the piss. He's not learning at all, he doesn't want to learn. Because if he did, he'd be listening to 'football heads' around him and we wouldn't be pissing off half the squad by selling/refusing to deal contracts with them. And I can't see us being just off a good squad as being a positive, because we've been like this for a couple of seasons now. We're so close and a couple of simple moves away from being a good squad and we're making no signs of heading in that direction. Sell our players and replace them is our policy atm - and we're only going to stay where we are (or go backwards depending on how good said replacements are) with that sort of plan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I'll tell you my problem, and why I've had such a sharp change of view in recent weeks. We're not that far off having a really quality side and a good squad that I'd be proud of. That's what's really frustrating. We're so close yet so far away. And it's been that way for years under Ashley. Every time it looks like we're getting closer closer to breaking back into the top six, he pulls the rug from beneath us and we go crashing back down. Keegan, Shearer, Hughton, Carroll, Nolan, this window. Every time we smell success, we end up further back than where we started and it's annoying the hell out of me. We've improved the squad no doubt this season and we've barely spent a penny. Imagine what we could do if we spent the £35m we made from Carroll, if we bought a proper promising striker like Sturridge and a player of genuine flair and quality like N'Zogbia. An upgrade at the back and we'd crack the top six this season, I've no doubt about it. But no, we're in a financial mess. We've got no money etc. Ashley has sold off alot of the top earners, stopped us spending as much, pumped so much money into the club and we're still broke. Hmmm. I've had enough. Just sell up and fuck off. What we need is someone to buy up and fuck on. Anyone out there? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 How are we compared to the club he purchased? Take into consideration the 'new money' that has come into City? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 V I disagree with the Enrique 'tweet' but his sentiments are correct, we're settling. The lad is obviosuly ambitious, he wants to see the club push on and challange for a European place and as a fan I want to see the same. I was willing to give Ashley a chance this summer and granted it isn't over yet, but so far he's yet again failed to deliver. Yes the squad is better, but it could be better still with substantial investment. Why settle for a mid-table finish when we could be so much more with a bit of investment, investment which was all but promised following the Carroll sale. Top sides carry debt because they invest in quality, yet we seem to have bought into this notion that we're in some form of financial crisis. There's nothing wrong with a running a tight ship, similarly it's accepted the market has gone a bit mental but at the same time failing to re-invest any of what you've brought in when there's genuine quality about is bad crack. Buy cheap, sell big, it looks to be the future, and it that will do little to convince the likes of Enrique we're going anywhere fast. It's a method which every club outside of the top 6 is adopting, not just us though. 1)We should be aiming to be in that top six. It's not going to happen overnight but it's never going to happen if you don't spend a bit of cash. There's a reason those clubs are outside the top six 2) The only clubs that have sold players for substantial sums thus far are Villa and Sunderland, they have/are re-investing it. After the prospective Erding & N'Zogbia transfers, Villa will be £17m in profit since June 2010, Sunderland will be £7m in profit (but would you have been happy with their transfer dealings?), and we'll be £16m in profit. Not sure where you're getting £16m from, the link below suggests it's more like £23.5m. http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/newcastle-united-transfers.html And I know we had just went down but the summer before we sold £25m worth of talent and only spent a couple of million. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 V I disagree with the Enrique 'tweet' but his sentiments are correct, we're settling. The lad is obviosuly ambitious, he wants to see the club push on and challange for a European place and as a fan I want to see the same. I was willing to give Ashley a chance this summer and granted it isn't over yet, but so far he's yet again failed to deliver. Yes the squad is better, but it could be better still with substantial investment. Why settle for a mid-table finish when we could be so much more with a bit of investment, investment which was all but promised following the Carroll sale. Top sides carry debt because they invest in quality, yet we seem to have bought into this notion that we're in some form of financial crisis. There's nothing wrong with a running a tight ship, similarly it's accepted the market has gone a bit mental but at the same time failing to re-invest any of what you've brought in when there's genuine quality about is bad crack. Buy cheap, sell big, it looks to be the future, and it that will do little to convince the likes of Enrique we're going anywhere fast. It's a method which every club outside of the top 6 is adopting, not just us though. 1)We should be aiming to be in that top six. It's not going to happen overnight but it's never going to happen if you don't spend a bit of cash. There's a reason those clubs are outside the top six 2) The only clubs that have sold players for substantial sums thus far are Villa and Sunderland, they have/are re-investing it. After the prospective Erding & N'Zogbia transfers, Villa will be £17m in profit since June 2010, Sunderland will be £7m in profit (but would you have been happy with their transfer dealings?), and we'll be £16m in profit. Not sure where you're getting £16m from, the link below suggests it's more like £23.5m. http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/newcastle-united-transfers.html And I know we had just went down but the summer before we sold £25m worth of talent and only spent a couple of million. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Is there any way you can calculate say 10 years? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Is there any way you can calculate say 10 years? http://www.transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/2003-2011.html That's to 2003, so we're probably looking at about £10m spent net in 10 years if we consider the likes of Robert, Bellamy & Jenas? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 yey! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Is there any way you can calculate say 10 years? http://www.transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/2003-2011.html That's to 2003, so we're probably looking at about £10m spent net in 10 years if we consider the likes of Robert, Bellamy & Jenas? Fucking hell, that's nowt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 V I disagree with the Enrique 'tweet' but his sentiments are correct, we're settling. The lad is obviosuly ambitious, he wants to see the club push on and challange for a European place and as a fan I want to see the same. I was willing to give Ashley a chance this summer and granted it isn't over yet, but so far he's yet again failed to deliver. Yes the squad is better, but it could be better still with substantial investment. Why settle for a mid-table finish when we could be so much more with a bit of investment, investment which was all but promised following the Carroll sale. Top sides carry debt because they invest in quality, yet we seem to have bought into this notion that we're in some form of financial crisis. There's nothing wrong with a running a tight ship, similarly it's accepted the market has gone a bit mental but at the same time failing to re-invest any of what you've brought in when there's genuine quality about is bad crack. Buy cheap, sell big, it looks to be the future, and it that will do little to convince the likes of Enrique we're going anywhere fast. It's a method which every club outside of the top 6 is adopting, not just us though. 1)We should be aiming to be in that top six. It's not going to happen overnight but it's never going to happen if you don't spend a bit of cash. There's a reason those clubs are outside the top six 2) The only clubs that have sold players for substantial sums thus far are Villa and Sunderland, they have/are re-investing it. After the prospective Erding & N'Zogbia transfers, Villa will be £17m in profit since June 2010, Sunderland will be £7m in profit (but would you have been happy with their transfer dealings?), and we'll be £16m in profit. Not sure where you're getting £16m from, the link below suggests it's more like £23.5m. http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/newcastle-united-transfers.html And I know we had just went down but the summer before we sold £25m worth of talent and only spent a couple of million. Aha, well I'm not being funny like but if you're counting Erding then I'm counting Enrique and Routledge and we're back to square one if not further in profit. And we might spend a couple of million on Enrique's replacement but not a great deal at all imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 http://www.transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/1992-to-2011.html minus http://www.transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/2006-2011.html If we think that between 1992-2006, we spent £260m and brought in £120m, and the wages and loss we were operating at around that time, you can see why lately the money's had to come back in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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