Current line up...

[toontownman]

                          Krul

Simpson    Saylor      Coloccini    Santon

Marveaux    Tiote    Cabaye      Jonas

                  HBA

                            Ba

 

Play Obertan instead of HBA until he gets fit

 

Marveaux is easily capable at RW, obviously his preferred position is LW but these days wingers interchange anyway.

 

Completely this. Not that dissapointed with that as a starting line up either.

 

Think we will see this for the QPR game though.

 

                          Krul

Simpson    Saylor      Coloccini    Raylor

Obertan    Tiote    Cabaye      Jonas

                  Best        Ameobi

 

 

[Eveready]

                      Krul

Raylor    Colo      Saylor      Santon

          Cabaye      Tiote

Jonas          Ben Arfa      Marveaux

                Sammy/Best

[Ginola]

Krul

Simpson - Saylor - Colo - Santon

Cabaye - Tiote

Jonas/Marv - Ben Arfa - Jonas/Marv

Best/Ba

 

Against some teams I'd consider Ba out wide. Still got the options of Obertan and the youngsters or playing a 4-4-2 rather than a 4-2-3-1. We've still got options despite the joke of not signing a striker in the transfer window.

[AlanSkÃrare]

With HBA out, I'd go

 

                          Krul

Simpson  Coloccini  Taylor  Santon

                Cabaye Tioté

Marveaux        Vuckic        Jonas

                          Ba

[Ikon]

With HBA out, I'd go

 

                          Krul

Simpson  Coloccini  Taylor  Santon

                Cabaye Tioté

Marveaux        Vuckic        Jonas

                          Ba

 

This!

[Guest Antec]

Is Stroller off to the ANC in jan?

[toptoon]

                          Krul

Simpson    Saylor      Coloccini    Santon

Marveaux    Tiote    Cabaye      Jonas

                  HBA

                            Ba

 

Play Obertan instead of HBA until he gets fit

 

Marveaux is easily capable at RW, obviously his preferred position is LW but these days wingers interchange anyway.

 

This except i'd play Best insteads of Ba and Sameiobi whilst Ben Arfa is out.

 

Ba has looked woeful thus far, Best looks like he can at least score goals which is a good start.

 

Obertan has also looked poor to me thus far. Sammy has been banging them in and creating, against Scunthorpe, pre season and for the reserves. He's in form he could be a very good player. I'd give him a chance.

 

                          Krul

Simpson    Saylor      Coloccini    Santon

Marveaux    Tiote    Cabaye      Jonas

        Sammy/HBA

                            Best

[Beren]

Okay, so the team has moved on somewhat since the last post, but what is your ideal first XI when everyone is fit (yeah, right)...

[Deuce]

Okay, so the team has moved on somewhat since the last post, but what is your ideal first XI when everyone is fit (yeah, right)...

 

                          Krul

Anita      S.Taylor      Coloccini      Santon

                          Tiote

            Cabaye              Gutierrez

                        Ben Arfa

                  Cisse          Ba

[Jagten]

Krul

Santon - Taylor - Coloccini - Ferguson

Anita - Tiote

Cabaye

Ben Arfa - Cisse - Ba/Marveaux

[Cronky]

I'll have a go -

 

.............Krul

Anita Colo Saylor Santon

........Tiote Cabaye

....Sameobi Ben Arfa Jonas

.................Ba

 

Very tempting to include Ferguson instead of Jonas, but then we'd have a very inexperienced line-up.

 

Not sure that Ba is the best choice as the lone striker. Cisse has better movement, and Shola (yes, Shola) is the best of the three at holding the ball up and winning the ball in the air.

[ponsaelius]

Krul

 

Santon

Taylor

Colo

Ferguson

 

Tiote

Anita/Jonas

Cabaye

 

Ben Arfa

Cisse

Ba

 

But that would take some authority from the manager to play players where he tells them and a lot of work on the training ground. I've been banging the formational drum for a while now but I've sort of resigned myself to the fact that the formation is not the most crucial factor and it is more likely that the fundamentals of our play when we have the ball are not going to improve with a simple reshuffle. Movement from the forwards, our inability to play through midfield, our tendancy to launch the ball forward, our players sticking to rigid positions and our general struggle to fashion goalscoring chances almost certainly comes from poor offensive/possession coaching away from matchday.

 

I gave Pards the benefit of the doubt on this side of the game at the beginning of last season. We were in 'turmoil' after the transfer window, had new players who hadn't yet settled into the league and he was under massive scrutiny still as Ashley's patsy who replaced the fan's favourite. The result was the ultimate and it was hard to care how we played when we took 3 points from the derby and plundered 11(?) games unbeaten. Then later in the season it was a case of giving him the benefit of the doubt because we had injury problems in defence - 'I spose the football is poor because we're masking the defensive and footballing frailties of our back 4, difficult to care when we're picking up results'.

 

Fact is for the entire time of Pardew's tenure in charge I've been just expecting and hoping that our style of play would grow and develop into something that resembles a genuine top side. I don't think it's going to happen now though. He's clearly not a bad manager - he is generally excellent with the press and communicating with fans which is a significant part of his job. I think he is a competent if not spectacular man manager despite some of the claims on here. He's also OK tactically when it comes to spotting other teams strengths and knowing how to try and counteract them by setting up a certain way. Look at how we went to Stoke away last season for example and did a number on every part of their game. He has a lot of positive attributes but I think he simple is what he is - a pragmatist. A step up from the likes of Pulis/Allardyce (I don't think it is at all fair to bracket him with Fat Sham btw, considering what he has done at the club and how the former failed miserably) but a lot of the same traits are there. Defensive shape and discipline is paramount, worries about counteracting the opposition a bit too much, happy to take draws away from home, happy to keep players caged positionally, an over-reliance on statistical analysis and percentage play etc.

 

What I don't think he is or will ever be is somebody who will mould us into a team that is confident with the ball and to be a side that will dictate games. I don't think we'll ever see a balanced, adventurous style with our players given freedom to express themselves because it just doesn't seem to be in his make-up and we don't seem to do the work on the training ground that would produce that football. The closest thing we've had to that was the spell towards the end of last season; but even then our best football came away to WBA when we played largely on the transitions - hitting them on the counterattack for two of our goals and then settling on the result in the 2nd half.

 

Under Pardew we're always going to be a competent side that will pick up results consistently IMO. Look at our home record since the start of last season, we may not be blowing teams away regularly but in terms of simply not losing games we've made SJP a relative fortress. However under him we're also never likely to be a spectacular or fun side to watch apart from individual magic and the odd glitch to the system.

[Mole_Toonfan]

Krul

 

Santon

Taylor

Colo

Ferguson

 

Tiote

Anita/Jonas

Cabaye

 

Ben Arfa

Cisse

Ba

 

But that would take some authority from the manager to play players where he tells them and a lot of work on the training ground. I've been banging the formational drum for a while now but I've sort of resigned myself to the fact that the formation is not the most crucial factor and it is more likely that the fundamentals of our play when we have the ball are not going to improve with a simple reshuffle. Movement from the forwards, our inability to play through midfield, our tendancy to launch the ball forward, our players sticking to rigid positions and our general struggle to fashion goalscoring chances almost certainly comes from poor offensive/possession coaching away from matchday.

 

I gave Pards the benefit of the doubt on this side of the game at the beginning of last season. We were in 'turmoil' after the transfer window, had new players who hadn't yet settled into the league and he was under massive scrutiny still as Ashley's patsy who replaced the fan's favourite. The result was the ultimate and it was hard to care how we played when we took 3 points from the derby and plundered 11(?) games unbeaten. Then later in the season it was a case of giving him the benefit of the doubt because we had injury problems in defence - 'I spose the football is poor because we're masking the defensive and footballing frailties of our back 4, difficult to care when we're picking up results'.

 

Fact is for the entire time of Pardew's tenure in charge I've been just expecting and hoping that our style of play would grow and develop into something that resembles a genuine top side. I don't think it's going to happen now though. He's clearly not a bad manager - he is generally excellent with the press and communicating with fans which is a significant part of his job. I think he is a competent if not spectacular man manager despite some of the claims on here. He's also OK tactically when it comes to spotting other teams strengths and knowing how to try and counteract them by setting up a certain way. Look at how we went to Stoke away last season for example and did a number on every part of their game. He has a lot of positive attributes but I think he simple is what he is - a pragmatist. A step up from the likes of Pulis/Allardyce (I don't think it is at all fair to bracket him with Fat Sham btw, considering what he has done at the club and how the former failed miserably) but a lot of the same traits are there. Defensive shape and discipline is paramount, worries about counteracting the opposition a bit too much, happy to take draws away from home, happy to keep players caged positionally, an over-reliance on statistical analysis and percentage play etc.

 

What I don't think he is or will ever be is somebody who will mould us into a team that is confident with the ball and to be a side that will dictate games. I don't think we'll ever see a balanced, adventurous style with our players given freedom to express themselves because it just doesn't seem to be in his make-up and we don't seem to do the work on the training ground that would produce that football. The closest thing we've had to that was the spell towards the end of last season; but even then our best football came away to WBA when we played largely on the transitions - hitting them on the counterattack for two of our goals and then settling on the result in the 2nd half.

 

Under Pardew we're always going to be a competent side that will pick up results consistently IMO. Look at our home record since the start of last season, we may not be blowing teams away regularly but in terms of simply not losing games we've made SJP a relative fortress. However under him we're also never likely to be a spectacular or fun side to watch apart from individual magic and the odd glitch to the system.

 

Basically how i feel, whether that's 4-3-1-2 with Hatem as the "1" or 4-3-3 as we saw last season that is definitely how i would go.

 

As with Santon and Fergie as the fullbacks we can play a narrow system and not worry too much about width.

 

I also agree the formation is far from the main issue.

[Wullie]

I'll have a go -

 

.............Krul

Anita Colo Saylor Santon

........Tiote Cabaye

....Sameobi Ben Arfa Jonas

.................Ba

 

Very tempting to include Ferguson instead of Jonas, but then we'd have a very inexperienced line-up.

 

Not sure that Ba is the best choice as the lone striker. Cisse has better movement, and Shola (yes, Shola) is the best of the three at holding the ball up and winning the ball in the air.

 

Hold up play and winning the ball in the air is only a requirement of a lone striker if the manager chooses to play that way. Van Persie plays up like that but nobody ever asks him to win flick ons.

[littlelunchbox]

there is a reason why players like vuckic and marveaux, dont get starts in prem matches.

 

they all too lightweight.  i dont mean physically.  They cannot cope with the speed and rigorous nature of the english game not yet anyway.

 

marveaux struggled vs everton, and a half baked manure team, but in the europa he has shown promise due to the nature of the european game, he was given time on the ball and ref are stricter with challenges.

 

 

 

 

[Deuce]

This side is going to look so much better when Colo gets back. Poor Willo, the guy cannot for the life of him pass the ball. He's gotta hoof it down the field every single time. You can just tell he's got zero composure; every time he runs to cut off a pass, he darts over and blasts it out of bounds. Colo reigns-in that ball and turns it around back upfield.

 

We're not having much luck with possession through the middle because we've got fuck-all from distribution out of the back the past 4 weeks.

[ponsaelius]

Mate we had Colo at the back against Villa and there was no improvement.

[Wullie]

Watch how often Cabaye, Tiote and Bigirimana ping it long before criticizing Williamson. Very few of our players don't - Ben Arfa, Santon and Jonas are probably the only ones.

[ponsaelius]

Even our first goal came from a fairly hopeful longer pass. Looks good when it comes off as spectacularly as that, but most of the time that would have gone frustratingly to nobody. Possession lost.

[Deuce]

Mate we had Colo at the back against Villa and there was no improvement.

 

Only his 2nd match of the season though. Gotta have faith in Colo over the long haul.

[Jagten]

I don't think distribution from the back has been our issue, our inability to perform any sustained build-up play from midfield is a greater concern. The options for our midfielders (other than the defence) are so limited.

[Deuce]

I don't think distribution from the back has been our issue, our inability to perform any sustained build-up play from midfield is a greater concern. The options for our midfielders (other than the defence) are so limited.

 

What's changed since last year though? Certainly not personnel.

 

Cabaye's been dreadful thus far and Tiote's been battling niggling injuries. So is it just lack of match fitness? Just so sluggish this year.

 

I guess that would have to explain it, as the only regulars who've looked consistently strong are HBA and Ba (maybe Santon and Saylor).

[littlelunchbox]

lack of link up between the attack and midfield. 

 

no matter if we play 4-3-3 / 4-4-2  we have no link up. 

 

reason being none of our strikers are any different, shola, cisse, ba, they dont come short to get the ball.

 

sometimes they try but its not their game. 

[Beren]

                  Krul

 

Santon  Colo  Saylor  Ferguson

 

            Tiote      Jonas

 

Sammy      Cabaye        Ben Arfa       

 

                  Demba

 

As Sewelly said, it's more than formations. but I'd like to see this though, with Sammy providing some unpredictability into the mixture. I've left Ferguson at LB because he's committed and is useful goign forward and more often than not I'd like to see us take the game to the opposition. Against certain teams, maybe Raylor may be more appropriate. They can both be exposed defensively, but with Jonas in a holding role, with less responsibility to come forward, I think he can be a neat DM, and either LB will manage.

 

Think it's really important we get Cabaye in the final third of the pitch, rather than trying to slide throughballs from behind the centre circle.

 

Rotate the Dembas to accommodate our busy schedule and keep them both fresh. Gotta give youth a chance IMO.

[Deuce]

lack of link up between the attack and midfield. 

 

no matter if we play 4-3-3 / 4-4-2  we have no link up. 

 

reason being none of our strikers are any different, shola, cisse, ba, they dont come short to get the ball.

 

That would seem to necessitate dropping HBA into a central role behind the strikers and letting him move into midfield to pick-up the ball. Ideally, I think, Cabaye handles that job and HBA floats all over the pitch.