Dave Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 This chap aside, I wonder if we'll be back to France for other targets this January (assuming we have some). And if so, whether we'll be able to pull off deals of similar value for money as previously considering our relative success so far. We've openly admitted we think the talent there is of good ability to value, surely clubs there will play harder this time, and/or more Premier League clubs will come in? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 He's excellent but a bit erratic as you might expect and does give the ball away trying to do too much (sound familiar? ). He scored a lovely goal the other night and there was one moment in the second half involving the 3 of them that was breath taking but the chance fell to Bodmer who couldnt finish a volley from about 16 yards out. Would have been a wonder goal, all created by Pastore. He's brilliant like, really is my kind of player. I was kinda hoping he'd end up in England but then I realised that would mean playing for City/Chelsea. PSG seems a good fit, just I don't really watch that much Ligue 1. Argentina are so stacked in terms of attacking options it's just daft. Even more daft in that they still manage to be shite. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzle Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 This chap aside, I wonder if we'll be back to France for other targets this January (assuming we have some). And if so, whether we'll be able to pull off deals of similar value for money as previously considering our relative success so far. We've openly admitted we think the talent there is of good ability to value, surely clubs there will play harder this time, and/or more Premier League clubs will come in? Looking at our (sort of) rivals in the league, the likes of Everton, Villa, Sunderland (I know, I know LOL), Stoke and even Liverpool, they either have managers who don't seem to like to buy from abroad (Bruce used to more but seems to bottle it now) or have no money, so I still think we're in the driving seat in that sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpal78 Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 This chap aside, I wonder if we'll be back to France for other targets this January (assuming we have some). And if so, whether we'll be able to pull off deals of similar value for money as previously considering our relative success so far. We've openly admitted we think the talent there is of good ability to value, surely clubs there will play harder this time, and/or more Premier League clubs will come in? Looking at our (sort of) rivals in the league, the likes of Everton, Villa, Sunderland (I know, I know LOL), Stoke and even Liverpool, they either have managers who don't seem to like to buy from abroad (Bruce used to more but seems to bottle it now) or have no money, so I still think we're in the driving seat in that sense. I also think that our reputation would also help. All else being equal, players also look where they can fit in easier and having teammates or a coach or the same nationality helps. The same way the Frenchies love to go to Arsenal because of Wenger and the Spaniards used to love Liverpool because of Benitez, I think having the likes of HBA, Cabaye, Marveux and lads who speak French like Ba, Tiote...etc can be an important factor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 This chap aside, I wonder if we'll be back to France for other targets this January (assuming we have some). And if so, whether we'll be able to pull off deals of similar value for money as previously considering our relative success so far. We've openly admitted we think the talent there is of good ability to value, surely clubs there will play harder this time, and/or more Premier League clubs will come in? Looking at our (sort of) rivals in the league, the likes of Everton, Villa, Sunderland (I know, I know LOL), Stoke and even Liverpool, they either have managers who don't seem to like to buy from abroad (Bruce used to more but seems to bottle it now) or have no money, so I still think we're in the driving seat in that sense. I also think that our reputation would also help. All else being equal, players also look where they can fit in easier and having teammates or a coach or the same nationality helps. The same way the Frenchies love to go to Arsenal because of Wenger and the Spaniards used to love Liverpool because of Benitez, I think having the likes of HBA, Cabaye, Marveux and lads who speak French like Ba, Tiote...etc can be an important factor. Ba speaks French because he was born in France. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 As I said, "vaguely similar" really. They're both big lads who don't necessarily open up space for each other as the mythical "Bellamy type" would. I see the sort of difference in movement you mention as more tactical instruction than inherent difference in style really. See, a sensible riposte. You've actually come on leaps and bounds as a poster this year. A true pleasure to debate with when you occasionally drop the self-absorbed pretty boy facade. ....what!? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ameritoon Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 That is such a bizarre comment to make Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 You can spot a player from watching Youtube clips? Are you f***ing daft mate? Dennis Wise could and nobody would say that he was daft. I think he was Dopey Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 This chap aside, I wonder if we'll be back to France for other targets this January (assuming we have some). And if so, whether we'll be able to pull off deals of similar value for money as previously considering our relative success so far. We've openly admitted we think the talent there is of good ability to value, surely clubs there will play harder this time, and/or more Premier League clubs will come in? I get the impression that's at least partially accounted for in the plan with regards to the players being targetted and their contract situations - buyout clauses and length of contract left. I also think that's the reason behind those derisory first bids of £2m or whatever for an £8m+ player. Get news of the rejected bid + interest circulating, see if the players head is turned, go back in with real offer. If they (Ashley/Llambias/third guy whose name escapes me/Pardew) can manufacture a situation where the selling club have an unsettled player and another club offering a fair price surely it's an advantage? I dunno. I've also always been skeptical of just how much clubs give a f*** about any article/story in the media anyway. Surely most (every?) chairmen/directors/etc knows that the whole of sports "journalism" is a farce. They conduct their business between themselves and journos get the scraps. "Gee Derek, we'd love to sell him to you for £6m but it says here in this interview in an English tabloid, which I am reading and read daily for some reason, you consider our league good value for money. Frankly, I'm insulted. I guess that makes the price £8m" ? edit: If that sounds like an oversimplification I only make it so because of the strange nature of all of the other required pieces needed to make it work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 It always becomes harder when other people start catching up to your methods. It happened for Billy Beane and to a degree it's happened to Arsene Wenger. It's up to the club to further innovate and continue to find untapped sources of value in the transfer market once everyone else starts overcrowding France. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 This chap aside, I wonder if we'll be back to France for other targets this January (assuming we have some). And if so, whether we'll be able to pull off deals of similar value for money as previously considering our relative success so far. We've openly admitted we think the talent there is of good ability to value, surely clubs there will play harder this time, and/or more Premier League clubs will come in? I get the impression that's at least partially accounted for in the plan with regards to the players being targetted and their contract situations - buyout clauses and length of contract left. I also think that's the reason behind those derisory first bids of £2m or whatever for an £8m+ player. Get news of the rejected bid + interest circulating, see if the players head is turned, go back in with real offer. If they (Ashley/Llambias/third guy whose name escapes me/Pardew) can manufacture a situation where the selling club have an unsettled player and another club offering a fair price surely it's an advantage? I dunno. I've also always been skeptical of just how much clubs give a f*** about any article/story in the media anyway. Surely most (every?) chairmen/directors/etc knows that the whole of sports "journalism" is a farce. They conduct their business between themselves and journos get the scraps. "Gee Derek, we'd love to sell him to you for £6m but it says here in this interview in an English tabloid, which I am reading and read daily for some reason, you consider our league good value for money. Frankly, I'm insulted. I guess that makes the price £8m" ? edit: If that sounds like an oversimplification I only make it so because of the strange nature of all of the other required pieces needed to make it work. I was referring more to our position in the table and plaudits given to players like Cabaye, rather than transfer speculation. It can't be ignored. If we're then spouting off (and rightly so) about how much value there is in France, is it really so unlikely that other clubs decide to have a closer look too? We're exceeding expectations at the moment but surely if we continue at the top end of the league, selling clubs will up their asking prices? PS: Charnley. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 This chap aside, I wonder if we'll be back to France for other targets this January (assuming we have some). And if so, whether we'll be able to pull off deals of similar value for money as previously considering our relative success so far. We've openly admitted we think the talent there is of good ability to value, surely clubs there will play harder this time, and/or more Premier League clubs will come in? It's a strange period with regard to this. I think what is happenning is that the PL clubs that could push us aside are well stocked with talent already and perhaps of a generally higher calibre and the clubs around us aren't quite the pull we are/are really strapped for cash ie Villa, Everton, Spurs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Eh...... Seem to remember pointing out Santon is a right back despite everyone else including the club stating they had bought a new left back... Happy to stick my neck out on that one come next season... Still waiting for someone to point out what this lad has got that we haven't already? Thought Erdinc was the better option personally... Would of give us something different as more of a Bellamy type forward... Still waiting for you to explain where all this footage is? I've not got a clue about the player, would like a look myself. I have a few Nigerian friends who I watch football with... Seen some games via them... Not saying he's a bad player... And I do trust Carr... All I'm saying is I don't see the obvious upgrade from what we've got already... I.E. Ba being our current centre forward alongside one... AP said they list their targets and start at the top and work down the list rarely going lower than third choice... I just feel after Gamerio Gerviniho Erdinc and Cisse this lad has got 5th choice written all over him... Maybe I'm wrong but dare I say as I'm not a fan of his that if Carlton Cole was going on a free with sensible wages attached then the board would have a decision to make... As if value for money comes before everything else... Maybe we will cast the net out further if still flying high come January... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 So the footage to which you refer is live Sochaux games? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 This chap aside, I wonder if we'll be back to France for other targets this January (assuming we have some). And if so, whether we'll be able to pull off deals of similar value for money as previously considering our relative success so far. We've openly admitted we think the talent there is of good ability to value, surely clubs there will play harder this time, and/or more Premier League clubs will come in? I get the impression that's at least partially accounted for in the plan with regards to the players being targetted and their contract situations - buyout clauses and length of contract left. I also think that's the reason behind those derisory first bids of £2m or whatever for an £8m+ player. Get news of the rejected bid + interest circulating, see if the players head is turned, go back in with real offer. If they (Ashley/Llambias/third guy whose name escapes me/Pardew) can manufacture a situation where the selling club have an unsettled player and another club offering a fair price surely it's an advantage? I dunno. I've also always been skeptical of just how much clubs give a f*** about any article/story in the media anyway. Surely most (every?) chairmen/directors/etc knows that the whole of sports "journalism" is a farce. They conduct their business between themselves and journos get the scraps. "Gee Derek, we'd love to sell him to you for £6m but it says here in this interview in an English tabloid, which I am reading and read daily for some reason, you consider our league good value for money. Frankly, I'm insulted. I guess that makes the price £8m" ? edit: If that sounds like an oversimplification I only make it so because of the strange nature of all of the other required pieces needed to make it work. I was referring more to our position in the table and plaudits given to players like Cabaye, rather than transfer speculation. It can't be ignored. If we're then spouting off (and rightly so) about how much value there is in France, is it really so unlikely that other clubs decide to have a closer look too? We're exceeding expectations at the moment but surely if we continue at the top end of the league, selling clubs will up their asking prices? PS: Charnley. We might just disagree on that point then. I think anything short of a trillionaire owner or sustained(multi-year), profile raising success(relative or trophy bearing) will not affect player prices to an appreciable extent. After three seasons where we were relegated, promoted and finished bottom half, we'll get the same price in 3rd or 4th midway through a season that we would in 10th or 12th. Why wouldn't they treat it as everyone else does - an anomaly? If they're desperate to hold on to a player it might (cheaply) be used as an excuse to put the player completely out of reach, e.g. 7m to 15m, but I don't think it would be used to try and squeeze 8m from 5m. Going back to regularly competing in Europe would have the effect you mention but I don't think until then. Or such a situation might defy blanket analysis altogether and require individual scrutiny of a clubs finances, willigness/need to sell, the players ambition and other factors we can only wildly speculate about. I can't say. Too many "what if"'s to throw about on either side. I think the question is oddly asked whether or not it's likely other clubs around us are looking due to our comment; I think they've always been looking (in addition to the mancs/chelseas) but have passed for any number of reasons. I'd be going off gross stereotypes which I have no way of backing (e.g. relegation battlers prefer domestic over foreign, lack of appeal/french profile, etc) to try and justify it though. We seem to be doing ok with it and, by all accounts, we look to be front runners so long as Arsenal doesn't come sniffing around. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benwell Lad Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 There's not much money anywhere in European football right now with almost all clubs trying to rationalise on spending and reduce operating budgets, so with a few artificial exceptions we're not badly placed financially despite our frugal appearance. Apart from that we may struggle if in direct competition with successful clubs who are European regulars, but outside of those the city of Newcastle and the (still) charisma of Newcastle United will be a pull for many. The percieved contentment of those who've arrived recently and the blooming relationship with French media will also help us in that country. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxfree Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I have a few Nigerian friends who I watch football with... Seen some games via them... Not saying he's a bad player... And I do trust Carr... All I'm saying is I don't see the obvious upgrade from what we've got already... I.E. Ba being our current centre forward alongside one... AP said they list their targets and start at the top and work down the list rarely going lower than third choice... I just feel after Gamerio Gerviniho Erdinc and Cisse this lad has got 5th choice written all over him... Maybe I'm wrong but dare I say as I'm not a fan of his that if Carlton Cole was going on a free with sensible wages attached then the board would have a decision to make... As if value for money comes before everything else... Maybe we will cast the net out further if still flying high come January... Would definitely have him over Gervinho and Erdinc like. I'm not sure if I'm reading it right, but do you want Carlton before Maiga? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlacknWhiteArmy Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Carlton Cole. Excellent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sifu Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I have a few Nigerian friends who I watch football with... Seen some games via them... Not saying he's a bad player... And I do trust Carr... All I'm saying is I don't see the obvious upgrade from what we've got already... I.E. Ba being our current centre forward alongside one... AP said they list their targets and start at the top and work down the list rarely going lower than third choice... I just feel after Gamerio Gerviniho Erdinc and Cisse this lad has got 5th choice written all over him... Maybe I'm wrong but dare I say as I'm not a fan of his that if Carlton Cole was going on a free with sensible wages attached then the board would have a decision to make... As if value for money comes before everything else... Maybe we will cast the net out further if still flying high come January... Errrr.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Carlton Cole? http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/5/8/129177762623540441.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Can't Control LFEE is on the windup surely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I thought it was best to ignore that suggestion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 This chap aside, I wonder if we'll be back to France for other targets this January (assuming we have some). And if so, whether we'll be able to pull off deals of similar value for money as previously considering our relative success so far. We've openly admitted we think the talent there is of good ability to value, surely clubs there will play harder this time, and/or more Premier League clubs will come in? I get the impression that's at least partially accounted for in the plan with regards to the players being targetted and their contract situations - buyout clauses and length of contract left. I also think that's the reason behind those derisory first bids of £2m or whatever for an £8m+ player. Get news of the rejected bid + interest circulating, see if the players head is turned, go back in with real offer. If they (Ashley/Llambias/third guy whose name escapes me/Pardew) can manufacture a situation where the selling club have an unsettled player and another club offering a fair price surely it's an advantage? I dunno. I've also always been skeptical of just how much clubs give a f*** about any article/story in the media anyway. Surely most (every?) chairmen/directors/etc knows that the whole of sports "journalism" is a farce. They conduct their business between themselves and journos get the scraps. "Gee Derek, we'd love to sell him to you for £6m but it says here in this interview in an English tabloid, which I am reading and read daily for some reason, you consider our league good value for money. Frankly, I'm insulted. I guess that makes the price £8m" ? edit: If that sounds like an oversimplification I only make it so because of the strange nature of all of the other required pieces needed to make it work. I was referring more to our position in the table and plaudits given to players like Cabaye, rather than transfer speculation. It can't be ignored. If we're then spouting off (and rightly so) about how much value there is in France, is it really so unlikely that other clubs decide to have a closer look too? We're exceeding expectations at the moment but surely if we continue at the top end of the league, selling clubs will up their asking prices? PS: Charnley. We might just disagree on that point then. I think anything short of a trillionaire owner or sustained(multi-year), profile raising success(relative or trophy bearing) will not affect player prices to an appreciable extent. After three seasons where we were relegated, promoted and finished bottom half, we'll get the same price in 3rd or 4th midway through a season that we would in 10th or 12th. Why wouldn't they treat it as everyone else does - an anomaly? If they're desperate to hold on to a player it might (cheaply) be used as an excuse to put the player completely out of reach, e.g. 7m to 15m, but I don't think it would be used to try and squeeze 8m from 5m. Going back to regularly competing in Europe would have the effect you mention but I don't think until then. Or such a situation might defy blanket analysis altogether and require individual scrutiny of a clubs finances, willigness/need to sell, the players ambition and other factors we can only wildly speculate about. I can't say. Too many "what if"'s to throw about on either side. I think the question is oddly asked whether or not it's likely other clubs around us are looking due to our comment; I think they've always been looking (in addition to the mancs/chelseas) but have passed for any number of reasons. I'd be going off gross stereotypes which I have no way of backing (e.g. relegation battlers prefer domestic over foreign, lack of appeal/french profile, etc) to try and justify it though. We seem to be doing ok with it and, by all accounts, we look to be front runners so long as Arsenal doesn't come sniffing around. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I have a few Nigerian friends who I watch football with... Seen some games via them... Not saying he's a bad player... And I do trust Carr... All I'm saying is I don't see the obvious upgrade from what we've got already... I.E. Ba being our current centre forward alongside one... AP said they list their targets and start at the top and work down the list rarely going lower than third choice... I just feel after Gamerio Gerviniho Erdinc and Cisse this lad has got 5th choice written all over him... Maybe I'm wrong but dare I say as I'm not a fan of his that if Carlton Cole was going on a free with sensible wages attached then the board would have a decision to make... As if value for money comes before everything else... Maybe we will cast the net out further if still flying high come January... Would definitely have him over Gervinho and Erdinc like. I'm not sure if I'm reading it right, but do you want Carlton before Maiga? Sorry... You seem to of picked up what i was getting up wrong... I'll try and be as concise as i can... (Though re-reading i realised i haven't again!) From what I've seen when he's been playing internationals I didn't see anything that really blew me away though to be fair the pitches weren't possibly not suited to him(?)... I also believe the more desperate we got in the summer to fill the number 9 shirt the further down the list of targets we got... With him at best being 3rd or 4th but more than likely 5th... Since then we are performing beyond everyones expectations... And I include owners and management in that... So I feel the club has a dilemma... Restart search as we are in a greater bargaining position theoretically and aim higher... Or revert to type and go along the purely value for money route... In my opinion they are thinking the later rather than the former so i was making the comparison on relative value that if Carlton Cole became available at overall smaller cost I wouldn't be surprised him being considered... Which i know is frightening... But if the logic is Maiga (Now at £8m than the original £5m) over Cisse at an estimated £10-12... Then surely this logic applies lower down the scale... And the difference in quality not the biggest... It's like the Cissokho was number one target but a poorer Pieters was deemed adequate and now that we are doing well the management are talking up Taylor as performing better than Jose and might make do... I was never expecting or calling for a trophy signing... I just feel this is THE key signing/addition to push the team forward and was hoping we would push the boat out for one of Carr's higher choices... I.E. Cisse... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Looking at my post above and listening to AP on TalkSport this morning... Which way do you think the board are thinking now regarding Maiga due to our great start to the season?... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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