Mike Ashley

[Wullie]

I think it's bollocks that you need vast fortunes to compete at the top level of the Premier League btw, I think it's long been used as an easy excuse by clubs like us who don't really know what they're doing.

 

For the CL spots you do but for Europa League, we were living proof that you don't need to spend vast sums. You do, however, need to kee investing to keep on top. Try telling Mike that though...

 

How have Arsenal managed it then for 16 consecutive seasons with one of the lowest net spends across the entire league?

 

Exception to the rule? Wenger? Liverpool et al dropping off and Spurs being perennial bottlers?

 

It can be done, we almost did it and Everton did too. But to keep it going is unrealistic unless you outspend those below you or spend silly money nonetheless.

 

What you say doesn't make any sense. You have to spend vast amounts (i.e. more than the club can generate and sustain) to compete for the Champions League places yet there's four places, and less than four teams doing that. It's bullshit man.

 

You've said yourself, Arsene Wenger. Put him in charge of Newcastle tomorrow, give him moderate investment and I'd put any money you like on us being a Champions League qualifier within 3-5 years.

 

It can be done but as has been proved, to finish in one of those spots, regularly requires someone to spend big money. Wenger has spent big money btw, but he's also sold for big money too which distorts what he's spent.

 

Of course, but we're talking about net spend. If you're saying that "spending big money" includes money from incoming transfers then you're admitting that the door is open to everyone.

[Jayson]

Lets just find the next Arsene Wenger then, easy peasy.

[Wullie]

Lets just find the next Arsene Wenger then, easy peasy.

 

Not at all, but then why should elite sport be easy?

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I think it's bollocks that you need vast fortunes to compete at the top level of the Premier League btw, I think it's long been used as an easy excuse by clubs like us who don't really know what they're doing.

 

For the CL spots you do but for Europa League, we were living proof that you don't need to spend vast sums. You do, however, need to kee investing to keep on top. Try telling Mike that though...

 

How have Arsenal managed it then for 16 consecutive seasons with one of the lowest net spends across the entire league?

 

Exception to the rule? Wenger? Liverpool et al dropping off and Spurs being perennial bottlers?

 

It can be done, we almost did it and Everton did too. But to keep it going is unrealistic unless you outspend those below you or spend silly money nonetheless.

 

What you say doesn't make any sense. You have to spend vast amounts (i.e. more than the club can generate and sustain) to compete for the Champions League places yet there's four places, and less than four teams doing that. It's bullshit man.

 

You've said yourself, Arsene Wenger. Put him in charge of Newcastle tomorrow, give him moderate investment and I'd put any money you like on us being a Champions League qualifier within 3-5 years.

 

It can be done but as has been proved, to finish in one of those spots, regularly requires someone to spend big money. Wenger has spent big money btw, but he's also sold for big money too which distorts what he's spent.

 

Of course, but we're talking about net spend. If you're saying that "spending big money" includes money from incoming transfers then you're admitting that the door is open to everyone.

 

This is what I'm saying: Wanna finish in a CL spot? Then you have to spend big money irrespective of how much you bring in from player sales. Wanna stay in those spots? You have to keep spending big money.

 

Arsenal are a strange case because their net spend is next to nowt yet every season without fail they have qualified for the CL. Looking closer at Arsenal though and the reason for that mainly lies with their great manager Wenger, the fact they have always had a good enough side to put out, lack of competition around them or failing other top four contenders, namely Liverpool, Spurs and at one point ourselves, and of course the fact that they have regularly spent big.

 

This season they have spent £43m

 

Last season £52m

 

The season before last £53m

 

That's huge sums. They have recouped big as well of course but had they spent what they have and kept those they've sold they would have won trophies...

 

[Wullie]

I'm not arguing with that. You're admitting that the door is open to everyone if you can keep getting better incrementally and buy and sell at the right time - i.e. you do not need massive outside investment to be a Champions League contender on a yearly basis, which was my entire point in the first place. Spurs have become another example.

[Guest snoopythewriter]

Arsenal fans piss me off with their moaning and bitching. They have European football every season. I would give my right nut for that. I wouldn't even care if we weren't challenging for the title. A top 4 finish would suit me down to the ground.

 

But not under this regime. No fucking chance.

[Disco]

Your ambitions changes though. We finished 5th and were booing players on/off the pitch.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I'm not arguing with that. You're admitting that the door is open to everyone if you can keep getting better incrementally and buy and sell at the right time - i.e. you do not need massive outside investment to be a Champions League contender on a yearly basis, which was my entire point in the first place. Spurs have become another example.

 

Ah, fuck me, I totally misread that didn't I!

 

In that case I'm with ya 100%, Spurs being the obvious model.

 

What we have already is a good ish squad like Spurs had when Redknapp first took over at WHL. What we don't have is a good manager and an owner or board willing to add to our squad and to improve our revenue streams.

 

Its sad that a few years back Spurs couldn't even compete for us for the likes of Parker and Duff. Back then they were slagging their owner and board and asking why they couldn't compete with Newcastle.

 

A fat bastard Ashley later and....

[Guest]

We finished 5th and people wanted rid of the manager & owner a few months later.

[Wullie]

Your ambitions changes though. We finished 5th and were booing players on/off the pitch.

 

Course they do. I'd be absolutely furious too if I was paying over a grand for a season ticket, bringing in CL money every single year and the club was spending none of it.

[Disco]

Your ambitions changes though. We finished 5th and were booing players on/off the pitch.

 

Course they do. I'd be absolutely furious too if I was paying over a grand for a season ticket, bringing in CL money every single year and the club was spending none of it.

 

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Arsenal fans p*ss me off with their moaning and bitching. They have European football every season. I would give my right nut for that. I wouldn't even care if we weren't challenging for the title. A top 4 finish would suit me down to the ground.

 

But not under this regime. No f***ing chance.

 

My brother in law us a Gooner and I bring this up a lot and he says Arsenal have always won trophies, whatever the decade, as far as he can remember. For them not to compete is not good enough and to merely keep finishing 4th isn't either. He loves Wenger, likes watching the footy, but he expects more and he puts up a good argument. He says its easy for me to say they are spoiled etc. when all I've known is calamity after calamity and underachievement.

 

That said, as a neutral, he's done an amazing job there and while they could have won more, they only need to look at Liverpool to see where they could be without Wenger and his methods. What fucked up them was Abramovic and then Man city. Up until then it was between Man Utd and them for the lot. Its testement to Fergie that he could keep Man Utd at pace with Chelsea and City. Wenger simply can't.

 

We'll now see Man Utd drift off and be much more like Arsenal, always up there but struggling to win things like they used to.

[PCW1983]

How does the term go, sometimes you have to speculate to accumulate.

 

 

[Stuy_O]

I dont think because he got subjected to some stick after making some catastrophic moves during the Keegan fiasco, we should just tolerate his own method of retaliation towards the fans and club with the way he's running it.

 

He's an absolute disgrace, he learned the hard way early on what happens if you upset Newcastle fans and the name calling etc hit a major nerve in him. Ever since then he's treated us in utter contempt, these latest episodes testament to his mentality. It's the stuff like pulling down banners at SJP that really irks me, especially when he's never even there to see them.

[oldtype]

Arsenal can stay in the top 4 without arbitrarily large sums of money because they were already one of the largest and most successful clubs in England before the big money came in.

 

Unfortunately, at this point I think mega money is a prerequisite for moving up from the lower tier and making top 4 consistently

[Benwell Lad]

I think Ashley tried to have passion at one point, you think back to him turning up in our shirts & standing with the crowd. He brought his family & kids to games, to imagine him doing that now is nuts. He's always made pretty poor decisions, bringing in wise etc but i think at that point he did atleast want us to be successful. The whole selling the club debacle is where he changed his ideas i reckon.

 

This was part of his statement at the time:

 

I have really loved taking my kids to the games, being next to them and all the fans. But I am now a dad who can't take his kids to a football game on a Saturday because I am advised that we would be assaulted. Therefore, I am no longer prepared to subsidise Newcastle United.

 

Can you imagine any man making that statement and then caring about the fans wishes or how their club does?

 

Then:

After his parents mortgaged their house to borrow money which they then provided to young Mike to get going as a sports retailer, the ungrateful upstart fell out with them so badly he stopped speaking to them. They still live in the same house they mortgaged for him, while he has at least one very large house in a plutocratic corner of north London

 

Its not a massive mystery is it.

 

Aye, but the tight bastard should still be spending more money on players for us to enjoy even though he's not welcome to watch it.

[Mistle17]

We were within touching distance of finishing in the top 4 a couple of seasons back- with an over achieving squad. We had a few big hitters (Ba, Cisse, Ben Arfa, Cabaye) who kept us up there. With our manager there was no way it was sustainable without investment last summer, especially considering those around us strengthened whilst we halted to a standstill. We scouted well in 2011 summer and went from a mid-table team to a top half team. However, for two summers now Ashley has downright refused to invest appropriately- last January doesn't count in my eyes as our season was a bloody wright off by Christmas, which is totally unacceptable, especially considering that we were 'competing' in Europe.

 

With a good manager, quality scouting and sensible investment we could easily break the top 4 imo. Ambition would only propel us to title challengers- look at our support, man! As players have described it, there's a wave of energy and feeling of invincibility at NUFC when things are going well. I cant even remember what that feels like nowadays, though.

 

It's all about building a strong squad. That will never happen under Ashley. He is a compulsive gambler, and none of his reckless gambles involve building and investing in a strong squad. As long as we sell to buy, value balance sheets over results, and have a spineless puppet as a manager, we will never compete.

[Away Toon]

I would like to second the above. What an opportunity we had, that was blown by not investing at the end of the season when we finished 5th. I don't think we are going to be anywhere near that successful again under Ashley and Pardew.

[Wullie]

We were within touching distance of finishing in the top 4 a couple of seasons back- with an over achieving squad. We had a few big hitters (Ba, Cisse, Ben Arfa, Cabaye) who kept us up there. With our manager there was no way it was sustainable without investment last summer, especially considering those around us strengthened whilst we halted to a standstill. We scouted well in 2011 summer and went from a mid-table team to a top half team. However, for two summers now Ashley has downright refused to invest appropriately- last January doesn't count in my eyes as our season was a bloody wright off by Christmas, which is totally unacceptable, especially considering that we were 'competing' in Europe.

 

With a good manager, quality scouting and sensible investment we could easily break the top 4 imo. Ambition would only propel us to title challengers- look at our support, man! As players have described it, there's a wave of energy and feeling of invincibility at NUFC when things are going well. I cant even remember what that feels like nowadays, though.

 

It's all about building a strong squad. That will never happen under Ashley. He is a compulsive gambler, and none of his reckless gambles involve building and investing in a strong squad. As long as we sell to buy, value balance sheets over results, and have a spineless puppet as a manager, we will never compete.

 

:thup:

[mrmojorisin75]

amazing what time has done for shepherd like, seems all was well when we were bought out then - not how i recall it tbh

[TRon]

I'm not arguing with that. You're admitting that the door is open to everyone if you can keep getting better incrementally and buy and sell at the right time - i.e. you do not need massive outside investment to be a Champions League contender on a yearly basis, which was my entire point in the first place. Spurs have become another example.

 

Ah, fuck me, I totally misread that didn't I!

 

In that case I'm with ya 100%, Spurs being the obvious model.

 

What we have already is a good ish squad like Spurs had when Redknapp first took over at WHL. What we don't have is a good manager and an owner or board willing to add to our squad and to improve our revenue streams.

 

Its sad that a few years back Spurs couldn't even compete for us for the likes of Parker and Duff. Back then they were slagging their owner and board and asking why they couldn't compete with Newcastle.

 

A fat bastard Ashley later and....

 

We are far closer to replicating the Arsenal/Spurs model now than we ever were under Fat Fred tbh, at least as far as the transfer policy goes. I don't think there's that much wrong with how we do business, it's the hiring of key personnel at DOF and management level where we have cocked it up big style under Ashley. Although I suppose the same could be said of Shepherd bar the SBR appointment.

[Guest thenorthumbrian]

There's little point in even mentioning Newcastle United in the same breath as Arsenal or  Tottenham, they are trying to build teams to compete, United under Ashley are just  happy to survive. There is no ambition.

[mrmojorisin75]

shepherd was bollocks like

 

i'm not letting how bad ashley is cloud my memory of that one little bit...the only fucking thing he had right was being ambitious, granted i'd like to see a bit more of that now but shepherd was a busted flush when he fucked off we should all remember that

 

also was it HTT saying he'd 'recognised' his failings when hiring fat sam? bollocks, we were fucking broke so he had to go to a manager who could piece together a team from free transfers and journeymen

[TherealnorthernTOON]

One upside of still having Pardew in the chair is how other younger managers with a more modern type of football will look at the club. We're no longer the club that sacks the manager after 6 months of bad results.

[Incognito]

One upside of still having Pardew in the chair is how other younger managers with a more modern type of football will look at the club. We're no longer the club that sacks the manager after 6 months of bad results.

 

Just our luck that this is the case whilst we have Barry Chuckle in charge.