Dogawful Officiating - Dave Coote suspended

[pubteam]

3 minutes ago, El Prontonise said:

 

You must be so perfect at your job.

It's potentially cost newcastle over £10 million, that's a rather big fuck up.

[Memphis]

There was an implicit bargain in the adoption of VAR. It was: you will have to give up some of the spontaneity and joy that football provides, but you will be rewarded with a product that is much more accurately officiated, and some of the injustices of the past will be rectified. It was a sacrifice for what was sold to us as "the greater good".

 

Obviously VAR has utterly failed to live up to the bargain. And it has robbed us of even more joy, even more of those spontaneous moments that make football what it is. 

 

The original sin is trying to achieve perfection. Players can never be perfect. Neither can officials. And that is part of the fabric of the game. In every attempt to achieve perfection, it will become more and more obvious that not only is that an impossible goal, but even trying to achieve it will make the game worse. We have to accept that mistakes will happen no matter what. Mistakes pre-VAR at least kept the fabric and flow of the game intact. We have vandalized a beautiful piece of art by incorporating all these breaks and we still have an utterly flawed system. It's scandalous.

 

The answer is not more technology. It's never more. It's only less. Goal line technology, fine. That's a black and white concept. Use it. Anything else, anything that requires subjectivity, get technology out of the game or you'll only see it damaged further.

 

 

[gbandit]

Just now, Memphis said:

There was an implicit bargain in the adoption of VAR. It was: you will have to give up some of the spontaneity and joy that football provides, but you will be rewarded with a product that is much more accurately officiated, and some of the injustices of the past will be rectified. It was a sacrifice for what was sold to us as "the greater good".

 

Obviously VAR has utterly failed to live up to the bargain. And it has robbed us of even more joy, even more of those spontaneous moments that make football what it is. 

 

The original sin is trying to achieve perfection. Players can never be perfect. Neither can officials. And that is part of the fabric of the game. In every attempt to achieve perfection, it will become more and more obvious that not only is that an impossible goal, but even trying to achieve it will make the game worse. We have to accept that mistakes will happen no matter what. Mistakes pre-VAR at least kept the fabric and flow of the game intact. We have vandalized a beautiful piece of art by incorporating all these breaks and we still have an utterly flawed system. It's scandalous.

 

The answer is not more technology. It's never more. It's only less. Goal line technology, fine. That's a black and white concept. Use it. Anything else, anything that requires subjectivity, get technology out of the game or you'll only see it damaged further.

 

 

Perfect post 

[Kid Icarus]

Not normally one for tarring a fanbase with the brush of its worst representatives, in fact nearly always the opposite, but my fucking god online Arsenal fans are insufferable. It says everything that everywhere you look there are Liverpool, Chelsea, Man United and so on fans all saying it was a sickening decision and that we were robbed, then Arsenal fans, to a man, shoehorning this into being about their 'karma' over a completely incomparable situation that didn't go their way but wasn't remotely on the same level of controversy. Embarrassing dickless clowns. 

 

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Kid Icarus

[Elma]

I don't disagree with VAR in principal, and let's face it, now it's here it's not going away. The implementation of it has been a mess though. Bearing in mind it was introduced to correct glaring errors, I'd take lessons from cricket and make the following changes:

 

1) No automated VAR or officials in the VAR room - only technical staff to assist the on field ref when reviewing pitch side.

2) Each team has one VAR call per game, retained if upheld but lost if misused. Manager/coach has to alert the 4th official within a reasonable period (say 30 secs?) of the incident to trigger a review.

3) Ref automatically goes straight to the screen for every VAR call to reduce delay (bear in mind there will be fewer VAR calls) and he can get a second view of the incident.

4) All goals are automatically reviewed by the automated offside system they used in the World Cup and which was stupidly (IMHO) voted down in the Premier League.

5) Keep goal line tech as that works a treat (with one famous exception).

 

The above would mean the decision is always with the on field referee, he gets a second chance to review anything contentious without any undue pressure from a contemporary in the VAR studio, goal offsides are reviewed quickly and consistently with no human input/error, and there will be fewer VAR calls/delays per game.

[gbandit]

There has to be no doubt at this stage that Arsenal fans are the wettest bunch out there. Like a bunch of kids. It was clear when they had their Samir Nasri love fest for a player who was a total loser of the highest order that they weren’t right but this has really sealed the deal

[Froggy]

2 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

Not normally one for tarring a fanbase with the brush of its worst representatives, in fact nearly always the opposite, but my fucking god online Arsenal fans are insufferable. It says everything that everywhere you look there are Liverpool, Chelsea, Man United and so on fans all saying it was a sickening decision and that we were robbed, then Arsenal fans, to a man, shoehorning this into being about their 'karma' over a completely incomparable situation that didn't go their way but wasn't remotely on the same level of controversy. Embarrassing dickless clowns. 

 

Kid Icarus and Froggy redemption arc incoming.

[Pilko]

5 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

Not normally one for tarring a fanbase with the brush of its worst representatives, in fact nearly always the opposite, but my fucking god online Arsenal fans are insufferable. It says everything that everywhere you look there are Liverpool, Chelsea, Man United and so on fans all saying it was a sickening decision and that we were robbed, then Arsenal fans, to a man, shoehorning this into being about their 'karma' over a completely incomparable situation that didn't go their way but wasn't remotely on the same level of controversy. Embarrassing dickless clowns. 

 

 

 

 

I was about to post about exactly the same thing. The part that they fail to realise is that whilst our fans will initially say "that's a shit decision" at the time, we've moved on by the next day and our manager hasn't thrown his toys out the pram like a little bitch either. They were posting and commenting on stuff for weeks about the supposed injustice that they suffered and still haven't let it go the weird cunts.

[Matt1892]

I’m fuming with Ashworth. How did he miss this lot when he was buying off everyone else who works on VAR with all that oil money? Useless.

[Abacus]

20 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

Not normally one for tarring a fanbase with the brush of its worst representatives, in fact nearly always the opposite, but my fucking god online Arsenal fans are insufferable. It says everything that everywhere you look there are Liverpool, Chelsea, Man United and so on fans all saying it was a sickening decision and that we were robbed, then Arsenal fans, to a man, shoehorning this into being about their 'karma' over a completely incomparable situation that didn't go their way but wasn't remotely on the same level of controversy. Embarrassing dickless clowns. 

 

 

 

Agreed, and while I don't pay much attention to online scuttlebutt I do think their club themselves are a bit to blame here by coming out in support of Arteta's comments.

 

Fine if a manager loses his rag in the heat of the moment, but not too surprising if it's been said by the club as well.

[GEFAFWISP]

1 minute ago, Abacus said:

Agreed, and while I don't pay much attention to online scuttlebutt I do think their club themselves are a bit to blame here by coming out in support of Arteta's comments.

 

Fine if a manager loses his rag in the heat of the moment, but not too surprising if it's been said by the club as well.

It's made even weirder by Arsenal getting even more glaring calls against them in the past (as every team does ofc). Not sure why the Joelinton non-push was the one to tip them over the edge...although it does make sense they'd go nuclear as we're no longer a pushover and they can't handle the new competition.

[Jamie87]

What about an AI based VAR?

[Kid Icarus]

3 minutes ago, Jamie87 said:

What about an AI based VAR?

 

It's miles away, but what's called AI is usually just a learning and aggregate algorithms. So it depends what it's learning, if it's told that last night's hand ball was the right decision for example, it'll still make those decisions. 

 

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Kid Icarus

[Jamie87]

3 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

It's miles away, but what's called AI is usually just a learning and aggregate algorithms. So it depends what it's learning, if it's told that last night's hand ball was the right decision for example, it'll still make those decisions. 

 

 

 

Not sure it's that far away. Agree there will always be bias in any trained model based on the inputs its trained on, but over 30 years worth of televised football captured and a panel of referees picked from every league would surely reduce its bias. At least it would remove any feeling that a decision was swayed by external factors (conspiracy or otherwise).

[Yorkie]

43 minutes ago, Memphis said:

There was an implicit bargain in the adoption of VAR. It was: you will have to give up some of the spontaneity and joy that football provides, but you will be rewarded with a product that is much more accurately officiated, and some of the injustices of the past will be rectified. It was a sacrifice for what was sold to us as "the greater good".

 

Obviously VAR has utterly failed to live up to the bargain. And it has robbed us of even more joy, even more of those spontaneous moments that make football what it is. 

 

The original sin is trying to achieve perfection. Players can never be perfect. Neither can officials. And that is part of the fabric of the game. In every attempt to achieve perfection, it will become more and more obvious that not only is that an impossible goal, but even trying to achieve it will make the game worse. We have to accept that mistakes will happen no matter what. Mistakes pre-VAR at least kept the fabric and flow of the game intact. We have vandalized a beautiful piece of art by incorporating all these breaks and we still have an utterly flawed system. It's scandalous.

 

The answer is not more technology. It's never more. It's only less. Goal line technology, fine. That's a black and white concept. Use it. Anything else, anything that requires subjectivity, get technology out of the game or you'll only see it damaged further.

 

 

 

Brilliantly put.

[Kid Icarus]

10 minutes ago, Jamie87 said:

Not sure it's that far away. Agree there will always be bias in any trained model based on the inputs its trained on, but over 30 years worth of televised football captured and a panel of referees picked from every league would surely reduce its bias. At least it would remove any feeling that a decision was swayed by external factors (conspiracy or otherwise).

 

I don't think it's miles away in terms of being ready to essentially referee games like on FIFA, but I think it's miles away in terms of being culturally acceptable amongst fans and being able to guarantee there won't be unintended consequences or any massive cock ups. There'll still be the possibility of bias as well, because AI is still a human creation, it'll just be harder to detect, and there'll be cries of games being scripted and having handicap coding added  I'm not even sure we'll live to see it tbh. 

 

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Kid Icarus

[Erikse]

 

So many referees are saying that this should never be a pen, even in Europe. It's not like every single handball is a foul in Europe. The raised arm was a normal part of his running movement.

 

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Erikse

[Erikse]

1 hour ago, Kid Icarus said:

Not normally one for tarring a fanbase with the brush of its worst representatives, in fact nearly always the opposite, but my fucking god online Arsenal fans are insufferable. It says everything that everywhere you look there are Liverpool, Chelsea, Man United and so on fans all saying it was a sickening decision and that we were robbed, then Arsenal fans, to a man, shoehorning this into being about their 'karma' over a completely incomparable situation that didn't go their way but wasn't remotely on the same level of controversy. Embarrassing dickless clowns. 

 

 

 

 

The last thing I want to do is to go on every PSG social media post for the next months to complain about that penalty, and laugh at them for everything that goes against them in the future, labelling it as karma. How are they like this? Is it because they have a history of bottling the league and CL, so they are bitter as hell, and think the whole world is against them?

 

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Erikse

[Stottie]

1 hour ago, Yorkie said:

The problem with handball is that it was a complete mess of a rule before VAR, because any notion of 'deliberateness' had all but disappeared. Incidents like Henry vs Ireland or (to select an NUFC example) Jenas vs Arsenal happened once in a blue moon. That means most calls were considering the entirely subjective issues of unnatural positions and unfair advantages by virtue of the ball striking the arm. Decisions of that nature are entirely inappropriate for VAR to intervene in. 

It's four years since the ridiculous handball called on Sissoko in the Champions League final. It was pretty much identical to the Tino one.

That's a long time to sort the rules out, and evidence enough that it can affect the highest profile of matches.

[Kid Icarus]

3 minutes ago, Erikse said:

 

The last thing I want to do is to go on every PSG social media post for the next month to complain about that penalty, and laugh at them for everything that goes against them in the future, labelling it as karma. How are they like this? Is it because they have a history of bottling the league and CL, so they are bitter as hell, and think the whole world is against them?

 

 

 

 

I think it's a combination of having a chip on their shoulder because they're perpetually spineless when the going gets tough, and that the leadership at their club doesn't just excuse that sort of behaviour but promotes it themselves. If Howe was as much of a petulant wanker as Arteta is I have no doubt many in our fanbase would take his lead and act in exactly the same way. Thankfully we don't have a manager who goes on like that and embarrasses us or the club. 

[Nobody]

My "favourite" bit of officiating yesterday is how PSG surrounded the ref after each of the "controversial" decisions, and each time the ref decided to book one of cry babies. Obviously, by some miracle, every time it happened to be someone who wasn't already on a yellow card. 

Best one was obviously when he felt he had to stop the game to let PSG surround him extra much when we were in possession. 

[Mike]

That take from the lass on CBS is aging really well. Clueless fuckwit.

[Hanshithispantz]

They also have high profile social media mouthpieces who go on like that. Thankfully our most notorious 'influencer' is some kid taking the piss.

[nortoon]

13 minutes ago, Nobody said:

My "favourite" bit of officiating yesterday is how PSG surrounded the ref after each of the "controversial" decisions, and each time the ref decided to book one of cry babies. Obviously, by some miracle, every time it happened to be someone who wasn't already on a yellow card. 

Best one was obviously when he felt he had to stop the game to let PSG surround him extra much when we were in possession. 

Still raging about thia and annoyed that nobody in the media has highlighted it at all. 

[Hanshithispantz]

17 minutes ago, Nobody said:

My "favourite" bit of officiating yesterday is how PSG surrounded the ref after each of the "controversial" decisions, and each time the ref decided to book one of cry babies. Obviously, by some miracle, every time it happened to be someone who wasn't already on a yellow card. 

Best one was obviously when he felt he had to stop the game to let PSG surround him extra much when we were in possession. 

I thought imagined that, the balls meant to go out of play isn't it? You don't just stop the game whilst a check goes on in the background?