Hatem Ben Arfa

[Lotus]

I think there is something in the argument that the early success of the team without HBA made Pardew reluctant to change things around too much. But I think that's a pretty understandable response anyway.

 

I agree. I think (and i know you're not firmly in the 'Pardew camp' here) that seems to me like Pardew hasn't got a really in depth understanding of what was bringing the results so he was afraid to try something different. As an alternative, remember Manu doing well but still getting Cronaldo on the pitch to give him minutes even when he was, in those days, a complete show pony. Didn't stop Fergie subbing him on though to get him used to it all and start developing.

[Dinho lad]

Credit to both Pardew and HBA.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I think there is something in the argument that the early success of the team without HBA made Pardew reluctant to change things around too much. But I think that's a pretty understandable response anyway.

 

I agree. I think (and i know you're not firmly in the 'Pardew camp' here) that seems to me like Pardew hasn't got a really in depth understanding of what was bringing the results so he was afraid to try something different. As an alternative, remember Manu doing well but still getting Cronaldo on the pitch to give him minutes even when he was, in those days, a complete show pony. Didn't stop Fergie subbing him on though to get him used to it all and start developing.

 

True enough, I don't know how in depth Pardew's understanding of why we were winning was. But I'm guessing he understood that we weren't conceding many goals and Ba was in shit-hot form up front. That's a formula to win a lot of games in this league.

 

For a manager who is basically judged 100% on results and league position (by the people who matter) it must be hard to know exactly when to change a winning formula like that.

[Dr Venkman]

I think there is something in the argument that the early success of the team without HBA made Pardew reluctant to change things around too much. But I think that's a pretty understandable response anyway.

 

I agree. I think (and i know you're not firmly in the 'Pardew camp' here) that seems to me like Pardew hasn't got a really in depth understanding of what was bringing the results so he was afraid to try something different. As an alternative, remember Manu doing well but still getting Cronaldo on the pitch to give him minutes even when he was, in those days, a complete show pony. Didn't stop Fergie subbing him on though to get him used to it all and start developing.

 

True enough, I don't know how in depth Pardew's understanding of why we were winning was. But I'm guessing he understood that we weren't conceding many goals and Ba was in shit-hot form up front. That's a formula to win a lot of games in this league.

 

For a manager who is basically judged 100% on results and league position (by the people who matter) it must be hard to know exactly when to change a winning formula like that.

 

Immediately, by putting better players on the pitch, howay man, we're talking about replacing Gabriel Obertan with Hatem Ben Arfa.

[Sifu]

Nice couple of articles on the last two pages or so. Very positive stuff. The lad certainly has a massive role to play in the final 10 games!

 

Now, whether you can attribute Hatem's recent rise/return to the team to Pardew's man management is quite a difficult question to answer imo. I really think that Pardew's handling of the whole affair has been wrong. What Ben Arfa simply needed was an extended run of games and given the same number of opportunities as the others, such as a certain Gabriel Obertan. Pardew's quotes in the press about Ben Arfa's workrate/defensive work has also been the wrong way to go about the whole situation too - Alan was pretty much voicing a bit of his discontent in the public and you really can't be doing that. However, you could probably argue that Ben Arfa needs to be constantly reminded of his responsibilities to the team so maybe that's why Pardew's been saying these things in the press (I'm just guessing here btw, no one really knows what goes on behind the scenes or at training). So, genius man management? I doubt it, the fact that Ben Arfa has been in and out of the starting lineup doesn't really equate to Pardew handling the situation properly (for me anyway).

Think we should give credit to Hatem, guess he's really stepped it up in training and showing Pardew that he can be relied on in both an attacking and a defensive sense.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I think there is something in the argument that the early success of the team without HBA made Pardew reluctant to change things around too much. But I think that's a pretty understandable response anyway.

 

I agree. I think (and i know you're not firmly in the 'Pardew camp' here) that seems to me like Pardew hasn't got a really in depth understanding of what was bringing the results so he was afraid to try something different. As an alternative, remember Manu doing well but still getting Cronaldo on the pitch to give him minutes even when he was, in those days, a complete show pony. Didn't stop Fergie subbing him on though to get him used to it all and start developing.

 

True enough, I don't know how in depth Pardew's understanding of why we were winning was. But I'm guessing he understood that we weren't conceding many goals and Ba was in shit-hot form up front. That's a formula to win a lot of games in this league.

 

For a manager who is basically judged 100% on results and league position (by the people who matter) it must be hard to know exactly when to change a winning formula like that.

 

Immediately, by putting better players on the pitch, howay man, we're talking about replacing Gabriel Obertan with Hatem Ben Arfa.

 

OK man, I'm just trying to explain my argument. Anyone can say Ben Arfa is better than Obertan, it's obvious. But you know that football managers don't always just pick their most talented players, there are more considerations than that.

[Dr Venkman]

I think there is something in the argument that the early success of the team without HBA made Pardew reluctant to change things around too much. But I think that's a pretty understandable response anyway.

 

I agree. I think (and i know you're not firmly in the 'Pardew camp' here) that seems to me like Pardew hasn't got a really in depth understanding of what was bringing the results so he was afraid to try something different. As an alternative, remember Manu doing well but still getting Cronaldo on the pitch to give him minutes even when he was, in those days, a complete show pony. Didn't stop Fergie subbing him on though to get him used to it all and start developing.

 

True enough, I don't know how in depth Pardew's understanding of why we were winning was. But I'm guessing he understood that we weren't conceding many goals and Ba was in shit-hot form up front. That's a formula to win a lot of games in this league.

 

For a manager who is basically judged 100% on results and league position (by the people who matter) it must be hard to know exactly when to change a winning formula like that.

 

Immediately, by putting better players on the pitch, howay man, we're talking about replacing Gabriel Obertan with Hatem Ben Arfa.

 

OK man, I'm just trying to explain my argument. Anyone can say Ben Arfa is better than Obertan, it's obvious. But you know that football managers don't always just pick their most talented players, there are more considerations than that.

 

I know mate, you talk some sense but you're too understanding, people make mistakes.

[Segun Oluwaniyi]

Nice couple of articles on the last two pages or so. Very positive stuff. The lad certainly has a massive role to play in the final 10 games!

 

Now, whether you can attribute Hatem's recent rise/return to the team to Pardew's man management is quite a difficult question to answer imo. I really think that Pardew's handling of the whole affair has been wrong. What Ben Arfa simply needed was an extended run of games and given the same number of opportunities as the others, such as a certain Gabriel Obertan. Pardew's quotes in the press about Ben Arfa's workrate/defensive work has also been the wrong way to go about the whole situation too - Alan was pretty much voicing a bit of his discontent in the public and you really can't be doing that. However, you could probably argue that Ben Arfa needs to be constantly reminded of his responsibilities to the team so maybe that's why Pardew's been saying these things in the press (I'm just guessing here btw, no one really knows what goes on behind the scenes or at training). So, genius man management? I doubt it, the fact that Ben Arfa has been in and out of the starting lineup doesn't really equate to Pardew handling the situation properly (for me anyway).

Think we should give credit to Hatem, guess he's really stepped it up in training and showing Pardew that he can be relied on in both an attacking and a defensive sense.

I give no credit to Pardew here. I think Hatem of five years ago would have blown up by now. He has been matured by injury and age is working hard to perform for the club that took a chance on him. If Pardew allow him space to live, this could be an extremely fruitful time for his career.

[gbandit]

Pardew prefers people who play by his rules 'percentages, work-rate, defensive element to their game' over footballers who are willing to express their ability. This will never change and while he has shown how unwilling he was to put HBA in the team, it has set a precedent that future footballers with great ability but no traditional 'run about, track, hustle, bustle' will not fit properly into his teams.

 

I honestly think it's a mixture of Hatem being exceptionally good and forcing him to play him. Any other manager would have been doing everything they could to put him in the team, not the opposite. A mixture of that and also luck that Sammy got an injury and that Raylor/Obertan are so awful. If we had a defensive player like Jonas on the right hand side, Hatem would not have got in the side.

 

Pardew doesn't deserve a single person's even contemplating that he's handled this correctly

[Spudil]

I think there is something in the argument that the early success of the team without HBA made Pardew reluctant to change things around too much. But I think that's a pretty understandable response anyway.

 

I agree. I think (and i know you're not firmly in the 'Pardew camp' here) that seems to me like Pardew hasn't got a really in depth understanding of what was bringing the results so he was afraid to try something different. As an alternative, remember Manu doing well but still getting Cronaldo on the pitch to give him minutes even when he was, in those days, a complete show pony. Didn't stop Fergie subbing him on though to get him used to it all and start developing.

 

True enough, I don't know how in depth Pardew's understanding of why we were winning was. But I'm guessing he understood that we weren't conceding many goals and Ba was in s***-hot form up front. That's a formula to win a lot of games in this league.

 

For a manager who is basically judged 100% on results and league position (by the people who matter) it must be hard to know exactly when to change a winning formula like that.

 

Who are these people? His fellow managers seem to think Brendan Rogers is doing a better job. Clearly they don't judge solely on results and league position. Clearly the fans don't judge him 100% on results and league position. So who are these people? I'm genuinely interested to hear.

[Hughesy]

The people who own the club...?

[Spudil]

Pardew prefers people who play by his rules 'percentages, work-rate, defensive element to their game' over footballers who are willing to express their ability. This will never change and while he has shown how unwilling he was to put HBA in the team, it has set a precedent that future footballers with great ability but no traditional 'run about, track, hustle, bustle' will not fit properly into his teams.

 

I honestly think it's a mixture of Hatem being exceptionally good and forcing him to play him. Any other manager would have been doing everything they could to put him in the team, not the opposite. A mixture of that and also luck that Sammy got an injury and that Raylor/Obertan are so awful. If we had a defensive player like Jonas on the right hand side, Hatem would not have got in the side.

 

Pardew doesn't deserve a single person's even contemplating that he's handled this correctly

 

[Spudil]

The people who own the club...?

 

They sacked Hughton for a very similar run of results to Pardews recent form, citing reasons other than league position and results. Clearly they don't focus 100% on results and league position.

 

( I have to pop out now, so im gonna point out that the qualifier 'basically' does not change any of what I have said, before Ian pipes in with that instead of answering the question)

[AyeDubbleYoo]

[gbandit]

 

You're just too sound mate,if you were on the apprentice everyone else would be bitching about everything,yourself included while you'd be saying everyone was quality and thoroughly decent

[Spudil]

I don't mean to come across as a cunt but when you say "by the people who matter" is sounds like a snide remark against me and people with similar views about Pardew.

[Skeletor]

I don't mean to come across as a c*** but when you say "by the people who matter" is sounds like a snide remark against me and people with similar views about Pardew.

 

Well it is.

[Mick]

I don't give Pardew any praise for the way Ben Arfa is playing.  He's now playing the way he could have played after this many games if played sooner.  Instead we've missed seeing a potentially brilliant player for more games than was needed.

[madras]

I don't give Pardew any praise for the way Ben Arfa is playing.  He's now playing the way he could have played after this many games if played sooner.  Instead we've missed seeing a potentially brilliant player for more games than was needed.

i was thinking that but after reading snippets from an interview with ben arfa saying his head wasn't right and how much sharper he looks now, i'm not so sure. can anyone link to the interview btw, i can't remember if it was in quotes or from pardew or whatever, it was while i was at work very early in the morning but made me put my thoughts on the matter on hold a bit.

[Sifu]

I don't give Pardew any praise for the way Ben Arfa is playing.  He's now playing the way he could have played after this many games if played sooner.  Instead we've missed seeing a potentially brilliant player for more games than was needed.

i was thinking that but after reading snippets from an interview with ben arfa saying his head wasn't right and how much sharper he looks now, i'm not so sure. can anyone link to the interview btw, i can't remember if it was in quotes or from pardew or whatever, it was while i was at work very early in the morning but made me put my thoughts on the matter on hold a bit.

 

Think this is it:

 

http://www.newcastle-online.org/nufcforum/index.php/topic,91227.msg3562130/topicseen.html#msg3562130

[LooneyToonArmy]

does anyone have the article/link to Solano's comments about Ben Arfa recently?

[madras]

I don't give Pardew any praise for the way Ben Arfa is playing.  He's now playing the way he could have played after this many games if played sooner.  Instead we've missed seeing a potentially brilliant player for more games than was needed.

i was thinking that but after reading snippets from an interview with ben arfa saying his head wasn't right and how much sharper he looks now, i'm not so sure. can anyone link to the interview btw, i can't remember if it was in quotes or from pardew or whatever, it was while i was at work very early in the morning but made me put my thoughts on the matter on hold a bit.

 

Think this is it:

 

http://www.newcastle-online.org/nufcforum/index.php/topic,91227.msg3562130/topicseen.html#msg3562130

thats the one, cheers sifu.

[Mick]

i was thinking that but after reading snippets from an interview with ben arfa saying his head wasn't right and how much sharper he looks now, i'm not so sure. can anyone link to the interview btw, i can't remember if it was in quotes or from pardew or whatever, it was while i was at work very early in the morning but made me put my thoughts on the matter on hold a bit.

 

“When I came back after my injury, I no longer had the desire to play,” he continued. “I found that the football they played was too far away from the one I loved."

 

I know how he feels.

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I don't mean to come across as a c*** but when you say "by the people who matter" is sounds like a snide remark against me and people with similar views about Pardew.

 

Well it is.

 

Nah, it wasn't, I meant the people who decide whether he keeps his job, i.e. Ashley and Llambias.

[Jayson]

I think to Pardew Ben Arfa has just been weaker defensively/losing the ball in dodgy positions more than Obertan/Raylor. For him to balance that out, he has to offer something going fowards in every game & he didnt always do that. Qpr, Fulham he was very good, then when that earnt starts at Brighton/Blackburn afterwards he did very little.

 

As people say, maybe more games would've got him back quicker. Pardew wasnt willing to make us more vunerable at the back to accomodate that. Both opinions make sense, one is just more defensively minded & less exciting. No idea whether it was the correct decision, i suspect myself he'd have created more than he'd cost us.

 

Either way if this period of time has him working harder its only a good thing.