Guest Deadmau5 Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 We certainly don't have the players to play a dominant control game fwiw. Also, jesus christ. Very depressing view and I wholeheartedly disagree with it. This is the kind of defeatist attitude that gives us 2-2 draws at home vs wolves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Seems absolutely bloody obvious to me that if you've got a weakish defence, the best solution is to keep the ball at the other end of the field. The best two Newcastle teams in my lifetime have been exactly as the above too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Seems absolutely bloody obvious to me that if you've got a weakish defence, the best solution is to keep the ball at the other end of the field. The best two Newcastle teams in my lifetime have been exactly as the above too. sort of what I've been trying to get at, especially against weaker teams at home. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 We certainly don't have the players to play a dominant control game fwiw. Also, jesus christ. Very depressing view and I wholeheartedly disagree with it. This is the kind of defeatist attitude that gives us 2-2 draws at home vs wolves. Should have said in most games. We do have a squad capable of pressing teams like Wolves - who are relegation fodder. Even then, we still have to ensure that we counter any of their threats. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 The weak defence in the 1990s thing is a total myth, isn't it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Depends what you mean by a myth. It was clearly weak relative to the rest of the side, as this one is, and if we'd played a game that invited pressure onto it, as we do now, it would have been exposed a lot more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 How did it compare to other defences in the league? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Hatem is going to tickle Norwich on Sunday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEEJ Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Hatem is going to tickle Norwich on Sunday. To the point they actually piss themselves hopefully. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mimifrench Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Don't expect anything from him tomorrow... He scored on Monday, so think he'll be pretty anonymous against Norwich. Hope not but... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeloEmre Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Don't expect anything from him tomorrow... He scored on Monday, so think he'll be pretty anonymous against Norwich. Hope not but... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingcrofty Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 He'll be on the bench as we experiment with Shola on the RW. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
summerof69 Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Don't expect anything from him tomorrow... He scored on Monday, so think he'll be pretty anonymous against Norwich. Hope not but... But what ? I think if he plays, he''ll take the game by storm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smal Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Who's Norwich's left back? Is it still that bald ugly shit fecker? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Don't expect anything from him tomorrow... He scored on Monday, so think he'll be pretty anonymous against Norwich. Hope not but... You reckon he's a world beater - but also think he cannot string 2 good games togther - I don't get it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mimifrench Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Don't expect anything from him tomorrow... He scored on Monday, so think he'll be pretty anonymous against Norwich. Hope not but... But what ? I think if he plays, he''ll take the game by storm. It's just that he always does that! You know making a good game and after he's silent, against a lower team... Of course, really hope he'll start and rape them! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Don't expect anything from him tomorrow... He scored on Monday, so think he'll be pretty anonymous against Norwich. Hope not but... But what ? I think if he plays, he''ll take the game by storm. It's just that he always does that! You know making a good game and after he's silent, against a lower team... Of course, really hope he'll start and rape them! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ujpest doza Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 The weak defence in the 1990s thing is a total myth, isn't it? yes it is. Keegans team actually had a very good defensive record and when Man Utd pipped us to the title there wasn't a lot in it in terms of GD. EDIT We only conceded 4 more Goals than man utd did. Final Table Full Home Away P W D L F A W D L F A W D L F A GD Pt 1 Manchester United 38 25 7 6 73 35 15 4 0 36 9 10 3 6 37 26 +38 82 2 Newcastle United 38 24 6 8 66 37 17 1 1 38 9 7 5 7 28 28 +29 78 3 Liverpool 38 20 11 7 70 34 14 4 1 46 13 6 7 6 24 21 +36 71 4 Aston Villa 38 18 9 11 52 35 11 5 3 32 15 7 4 8 20 20 +17 63 5 Arsenal 38 17 12 9 49 32 10 7 2 30 16 7 5 7 19 16 +17 63 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
summerof69 Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Don't expect anything from him tomorrow... He scored on Monday, so think he'll be pretty anonymous against Norwich. Hope not but... But what ? I think if he plays, he''ll take the game by storm. It's just that he always does that! You know making a good game and after he's silent, against a lower team... Of course, really hope he'll start and rape them! You also said that started to change towards the the end of his time at Marseille, with his increasing fitness and new found maturity he will do well tomorrow, i think he has shown even in his limited appearences he can be very productive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mimifrench Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Don't expect anything from him tomorrow... He scored on Monday, so think he'll be pretty anonymous against Norwich. Hope not but... But what ? I think if he plays, he''ll take the game by storm. It's just that he always does that! You know making a good game and after he's silent, against a lower team... Of course, really hope he'll start and rape them! You also said that started to change towards the the end of his time at Marseille, with his increasing fitness and new found maturity he will do well tomorrow, i think he has shown even in his limited appearences he can be very productive. Yes it's true. Now, if he keeps increasing fitness and working hard, no way he won't succeed. Plus, he's starting to be more productive, scored even 4 goals without playing a big amount of time! Now, he just need to show what he's really capable of! Trust me he can be much more better than he's actually. He's just so frustrating as a player! Perfectly know he could win tomorrow's game by himself but there is a gap between what he could do and the reality.... By the way, didn't NUFC lose against Norwich in the beginning of the season? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 The weak defence in the 1990s thing is a total myth, isn't it? yes it is. Keegans team actually had a very good defensive record and when Man Utd pipped us to the title there wasn't a lot in it in terms of GD. EDIT We only conceded 4 more Goals than man utd did. Final Table Full Home Away P W D L F A W D L F A W D L F A GD Pt 1 Manchester United 38 25 7 6 73 35 15 4 0 36 9 10 3 6 37 26 +38 82 2 Newcastle United 38 24 6 8 66 37 17 1 1 38 9 7 5 7 28 28 +29 78 3 Liverpool 38 20 11 7 70 34 14 4 1 46 13 6 7 6 24 21 +36 71 4 Aston Villa 38 18 9 11 52 35 11 5 3 32 15 7 4 8 20 20 +17 63 5 Arsenal 38 17 12 9 49 32 10 7 2 30 16 7 5 7 19 16 +17 63 you'd be surprised how many people believe those myths though, colo's crap, alan smith was great in our promotion season, we play hoof ball all the time, we always play a high line, we were mad to sell kevin nolan. thats just about our club, think how many there are about clubs we don't know so well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
summerof69 Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Don't expect anything from him tomorrow... He scored on Monday, so think he'll be pretty anonymous against Norwich. Hope not but... But what ? I think if he plays, he''ll take the game by storm. It's just that he always does that! You know making a good game and after he's silent, against a lower team... Of course, really hope he'll start and rape them! You also said that started to change towards the the end of his time at Marseille, with his increasing fitness and new found maturity he will do well tomorrow, i think he has shown even in his limited appearences he can be very productive. Yes it's true. Now, if he keeps increasing fitness and working hard, no way he won't succeed. Plus, he's starting to be more productive, scored even 4 goals without playing a big amount of time! Now, he just need to show what he's really capable of! Trust me he can be much more better than he's actually. He's just so frustrating as a player! Perfectly know he could win tomorrow's game by himself but there is a gap between what he could do and the reality.... By the way, didn't NUFC lose against Norwich in the beginning of the season? Yes, but we had no centrebacks, meaning we had two players out of position there and i think most would agree that we really missed some height in the team that day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 you'll generally concede less goals if you have more possession and are attacking more than defending though, it's never as simple as 'good defence' or 'shit defence'. the fact is our defence always looks best when there's less pressure on it, be that through better midfielders or spending more time in possession and going in the right direction Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 The weak defence in the 1990s thing is a total myth, isn't it? yes it is. Keegans team actually had a very good defensive record and when Man Utd pipped us to the title there wasn't a lot in it in terms of GD. EDIT We only conceded 4 more Goals than man utd did. Final Table Full Home Away P W D L F A W D L F A W D L F A GD Pt 1 Manchester United 38 25 7 6 73 35 15 4 0 36 9 10 3 6 37 26 +38 82 2 Newcastle United 38 24 6 8 66 37 17 1 1 38 9 7 5 7 28 28 +29 78 3 Liverpool 38 20 11 7 70 34 14 4 1 46 13 6 7 6 24 21 +36 71 4 Aston Villa 38 18 9 11 52 35 11 5 3 32 15 7 4 8 20 20 +17 63 5 Arsenal 38 17 12 9 49 32 10 7 2 30 16 7 5 7 19 16 +17 63 Not sure how that proves your point, you've posted a section of the table that shows us to have conceded more than all the other teams in it. You've missed my point spectacularly anyway. Of course we conceded less than most other teams because we kept the ball so well, football isn't about attack and defence, it's about the team as a whole. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmonkey Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 I vividly remember the peak Keegan era defence being dogshit compared to what Arsenal and ManU had, and nothing will change that opinion, be it the labelling of said opinion as being based on myths or statistics that "prove" the opinion to be wrong. Why? Because based on what I recall seeing with my own eyes, collectively we were nowhere near as solid/dominating a defensive unit as ManU/Arsenal were, and individually we were, to a man, significantly inferior (imo of course). IIRC Arsenal had Seaman, Dixon, Adams, Bould/Keown, Winterburn, ManU had Schmeical, Parker/Neville, Bruce, Pallister, Irwin, and we had Hislop, Barton, Howey/Peacock, Albert, Beresford. Whilst it might be easy to remember our group of defenders having good games, Albert marauding forward like a gazelle with silky smooth ball control, etc etc, there's absolutely no way in hell any of our defenders were on a par defensively with their Arsenal and ManU counterparts, not in terms of defensively ability. That's not to say they were bad or they weren't decent/good players in their own right, just that they weren't as good, much like Shaka Hislop wasn't a bad keeper but wasn't anything like as good as Seaman or Schmeical (and on that note, is anyone going to argue otherwise, since the same set of stats could be used here to argue that Hislop was, infact, only marginally inferior to one of the best keepers in the modern era? Or is that not a myth because...noone can be arsed calling it a myth?). I'd argue that under Keegan, we had a defence that was upper-mid-table standard, as opposed to title challenging standard - similar to the defence we had when we qualified for the CL under Sir Bobby (Dabizas, O'Brien, Bramble, Hughes, etc etc). The biggest problem was the lack of a leader at the back, be it a verbal one or someone who lead by example. Someone like Woodgate or Coloccini would have been a massive boost to the Keegan era backline, and it's something the other teams had in their respective defences (even Blackburn with Hendry). And although I don't get how anyone can see it any differently, I'm not going to belittle their opinion by claiming it's based on media myths, stereotypes or fairytales. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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