Guest Shaun Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 You don't kick someone who's on the floor. Lucky he didn't get charged by the police. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superior Acuña Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Can understand the first attack, but don't respect him for that second dig on the floor. Why not? The fan appeared out of nowhere- my first reaction would be to disable the intruder to any extent possible. As said earlier, the guy could have been carrying a knife of anything. If someone jumped me out of nowhere, I'd try to kick the guy in the head too, who wouldn't? Maybe he should have whipped out the Queensbury rules. Don't think the kick did anything to disable him, it was just a dig. Not condemning his attack, just looks like after he's taken him down sees an unnecessary opportunity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Spaceman Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 You don't kick someone who's on the floor. Lucky he didn't get charged by the police. If someone tried to hit me I'd kick them when they were on the floor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keefaz Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Think he showed canny restraint in not kicking his face off when it was there for the taking, tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shaun Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 They are already disabled. If you do that, you are then becoming the attacker. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 They are already disabled. If you do that, you are then becoming the attacker. He was not incapacitated at that point, sorry this is bullshit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 You don't kick someone who's on the floor. Lucky he didn't get charged by the police. I agree. His reaction went beyond self-defence and the red card was correct. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exiled in Texas Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Once again people blame the ref for understanding the rules. Aye its violent conduct even if its a spectator, official, player, manager, coach, physio etc Correct. The referee would have failed his duties if he had not sent him off. Incidentally, the spectator is outside the juristiction of the referee. Only the police or FA can sanction the spectator Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Think this situation calls for re-think of the rules. Keeper was well within his rights to do what he did. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exiled in Texas Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Well I hope the Dutch FA wipe it out...as it's crazy. I hear that KVNB stated that the red card was totally correct, but that they will not enforce any additional suspensions on the keeper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_NUFC Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Alright, so what would the attacker have done if the keeper hadn't kept him on the ground by kicking him until the steward arrived? This is the case in point people are wilfully missing or ignoring. The keeper was keeping the attacker on the ground using the only weapons HE has, his legs. He's a footballer FFS. If the attacker was carrying even a tiny razorblade, as soon as he was up, he'd have gone for the keeper. I'm sorry, all those being all high and mighty about a few kicks to keep the attacker down in self defence are smoking crack. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newcastle Fan Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 I don't get why people are actually saying the keeper did anything wrong, think its bullshit tbh, i would beat the shit out of "fan" if i was in his position until someone stops me, why would i let a man who just ran onto the field with the sole purpose of attacking me get up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 red card rescinded. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenham Mag Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 If someone attacks you from behind, it is only right to kick their face off even if they are lying on the floor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Some real 'blue sky' people in this thread, it's all well and good saying 'you don't kick someone who is on the floor', try saying that when you are attacked out of the completely out of the blue. You don't just think 'hang on, he is on the floor now, I better just stop'. Panic and adrenaline will be rushing through your body, you will go into defensive mode and you won't think clearly for quite some time (hence him still trying to push away his team mates long after the initial attack). If you are protecting yourself from some obvious lunatic, you will do what it takes to stop them having the chance to go for you again, as others said you have no idea what this bloke could have been carrying. It was a pathetic red card following rules or not, pretty sure there must be some common sense left in officiating a match. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
juniatmoko Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 it was just double kick nothing more.... lol... calling attacker on the floor was already weaker is false. Becoz the situation can be deceiving. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 If there's anything that the meteoric rise in popularity of MMA has taught us it's that a person on the floor is not a helpless lamb! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 It's not like the keeper was ambushed down a dark alley. He could have got away from the situation (however unmanly that would have looked) and he was in a very public place with people responsible for security close at hand. Drawing these analogies with other situations doesn't hold up. This sort of thing happens now and then, and it's the first time I've seen it end with someone getting kicked while on the ground. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 It's not like the keeper was ambushed down a dark alley. He could have got away from the situation (however unmanly that would have looked) and he was in a very public place with people responsible for security close at hand. Drawing these analogies with other situations doesn't hold up. This sort of thing happens now and then, and it's the first time I've seen it end with someone getting kicked while on the ground. It's not like he kicked him in the head. That would have been VERY different. One can't condone it but it is from beyond the reaches of understanding. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 It's not like the keeper was ambushed down a dark alley. He could have got away from the situation (however unmanly that would have looked) and he was in a very public place with people responsible for security close at hand. Drawing these analogies with other situations doesn't hold up. This sort of thing happens now and then, and it's the first time I've seen it end with someone getting kicked while on the ground. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fight-or-flight_response http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrenaline Some peoples natural instinct is to run, some people will always fight, some can make a snap decision under stress with adrenaline pumping. I can't condemn anyone for any of those choices. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Five o Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 You don't kick someone who's on the floor. Lucky he didn't get charged by the police. I agree. His reaction went beyond self-defence and the red card was correct. You are a pair of hippies If i am attacked by someone i go all out to neutralize them. Who knows if they have a weapon of some sort, they could get straight up and stab you in the face ffs. Better safe than sorry. As i see it, as long he is not disabled, out cold, restraint by other people, or on the run away, he is a threat. A school mate was attacked when i went to school with him, was a fist fight. The other person got knocked down, my friend walked away, the cunt ran after him and stabbed him in the neck. 1-2mm, from a artery. Lesson learned that day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Geordiesned Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Some very interesting views in this thread. I've no idea about Dutch law but under British law the keeper's actions would almost certainly have seen him charged with assault. The action of kicking someone whilst they are on the floor is not self defence whatever a lot of you have argued. Yes the keeper's adrenalin would have been pumping and it would appear he was set upon first but that does not mean you can exact your revenge on your attacker. It's quite clear from the footage that Esteban was not merely kicking him to keep him on the ground until stewards/police arrived as even after they do he tries to get at him. I may well have reacted exactly the same but would not be surprised if I was charged with common assault or affray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPL Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 I agree with everyone saying the keeper is a legend! If you look at the replays both sets of fans were applauding him. As for people saying the referee had no choice how about the situation earlier this season when Billy Sharp scored and took his shirt off to dedicate his goal to his son who had just passed away, if going by the rules he should have got booked but didn't. I know it's very different circumstances but just saying the referee can show common sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Just because someone is on the floor you can't defend yourself, as someone said its not like he was knocked out so could have been up again fairly quickly. Yes the keeper still had to be restrained after but I imagine that was mainly down to shock. It's really not very easy to keep calm in the heat of a situation or instantly cool off and think logically immediately after. For me It's similar to someone breaking into your house as in if they weren't doing it in the first place there would be no reason for them to come to harm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Five o Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 I understand the adrenaline thing and it will be the reason. And it is understandable (even though I'm anti-kicking someone when they're down). But no matter what side your view lies...both sides are using 'blue sky' reasoning. TBF. One thing that's not debatable...the headlines of "Keeper attacks supporter" are way off. It's clearly, and should be, "Supporter attacks keeper". Don't get that at all. But it's nothing like someone breaking into your house. Nothing. When it's just you and them and nobody around. In that situation is full on war. Bullshit imo. If, just IF the keeper had walked away at once, the attacker pulled up a knife, ran and stabbed him, what would your argument be? Things can happen in seconds, no matter where you are, and how many people are around. Before the situation are under control, its you against the attacker no matter what. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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