Mole_Toonfan Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 It's a f***ing ludicrous situation if you've got a player saying "play me in this position or I'll leave." Unless Ba is willing to be flexible then it would be the better of the club if we moved him on. first of all there's no evidence that Ba has given the manager a ultimatum. Not sure why people are so keen on seeing him play outwide considering he is the only striker upfront thats actually scoring goals with limited chances. Your right there isn't but it would be too much of a coincidence for it not to be..... Ba complains about playing outwide and starts throwing his toys out the pram when he was subbed at stages at end of last season, Pardew promises him he will play central this season and his entourage have also complained. It's too much of a coincidence for nothing to have gone on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 The strange thing is that when Ba arrived, he was always touted as a player who was both willing and capable of playing on the left of a 3, having played there in Germany and for West Ham. The fuss after the Everton game was fucking piss poor like. Imagine him pulling that shit with Alex Ferguson!? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlelunchbox Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 It's a f***ing ludicrous situation if you've got a player saying "play me in this position or I'll leave." Unless Ba is willing to be flexible then it would be the better of the club if we moved him on. first of all there's no evidence that Ba has given the manager a ultimatum. Not sure why people are so keen on seeing him play outwide considering he is the only striker upfront thats actually scoring goals with limited chances. Your right there isn't but it would be too much of a coincidence for it not to be..... Ba complains about playing outwide and starts throwing his toys out the pram when he was subbed at stages at end of last season, Pardew promises him he will play central this season and his entourage have also complained. It's too much of a coincidence for nothing to have gone on. even if its true, why do you want the boy to play out wide, his scoring chances would be even more limited. It's makes sense to play him in the middle. he's our best striker yet you want to play him outwide, its like AVB playing Defoe or Adebayour outwide, mourinho playing Drogba out wide, Bobby playing shearer outwide. ffs come on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxfree Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Because we actually played a bit fluent last season when he did. Pretty simple. In any case, keeping it as it now, shouldn't be an option. We need to mix it up, and that's a former proven recipe. Until we buy Mertens in January. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlelunchbox Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Because we actually played a bit fluent last season when he did. Pretty simple. In any case, keeping it as it now, shouldn't be an option. We need to mix it up, and that's a former proven recipe. a former proven recipe? lol oh please, demba played out wide in a handful, two handfuls of games at most, and those limited games got us to 5th? have a longer memory. we played the majority of our games last season in 4-4-2 dont forget. i personally am a big fan of 4-5-1/4-3-3 but you put your most effective most potent scorer out wide. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Icke - Son of God Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Because we actually played a bit fluent last season when he did. Pretty simple. In any case, keeping it as it now, shouldn't be an option. We need to mix it up, and that's a former proven recipe. a former proven recipe? lol oh please, demba played out wide in a handful, two handfuls of games at most, and those limited games got us to 5th? have a longer memory. we played the majority of our games last season in 4-4-2 dont forget. i personally am a big fan of 4-5-1/4-3-3 but you put your most effective most potent scorer out wide. You must have freakishly small hands. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 littlelunchbox is right, Ba did okay out wide, but a proper wide man would do a better job. And by a proper wide man I don't mean half-hearted bottle droppers like Obertan who shits his pants at the prospect of actually going past someone and sticking a cross in. We shouldn't be talking about losing either Ba or Cisse, they should be used as the deadly strikers they are. Rotate them, it's not like we don't have enough matches to play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlelunchbox Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Because we actually played a bit fluent last season when he did. Pretty simple. In any case, keeping it as it now, shouldn't be an option. We need to mix it up, and that's a former proven recipe. a former proven recipe? lol oh please, demba played out wide in a handful, two handfuls of games at most, and those limited games got us to 5th? have a longer memory. we played the majority of our games last season in 4-4-2 dont forget. i personally am a big fan of 4-5-1/4-3-3 but you put your most effective most potent scorer out wide. You must have freakishly small hands. that all you can add you this ? save your capitals for your cambridge uni application lol this is a football forum, get a life lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxfree Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Because we actually played a bit fluent last season when he did. Pretty simple. In any case, keeping it as it now, shouldn't be an option. We need to mix it up, and that's a former proven recipe. a former proven recipe? lol oh please, demba played out wide in a handful, two handfuls of games at most, and those limited games got us to 5th? have a longer memory. we played the majority of our games last season in 4-4-2 dont forget. Don't forget that it wasn't very pretty back then either. It's worth a try again. Just far to simplistic saying - hey, we're shite, but at least he's scoring (and papering over cracks). We could be way better off mixing it up, and we probably will. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nazza06 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Because we actually played a bit fluent last season when he did. Pretty simple. In any case, keeping it as it now, shouldn't be an option. We need to mix it up, and that's a former proven recipe. a former proven recipe? lol oh please, demba played out wide in a handful, two handfuls of games at most, and those limited games got us to 5th? have a longer memory. we played the majority of our games last season in 4-4-2 dont forget. i personally am a big fan of 4-5-1/4-3-3 but you put your most effective most potent scorer out wide. You must have freakishly small hands. that all you can add you this ? save your capitals for your cambridge uni application lol this is a football forum, get a life lol lol, lol. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 None of this will be a problem when Liverpool come up with the requisite £7m on January 3rd anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 littlelunchbox is right, Ba did okay out wide, but a proper wide man would do a better job. And by a proper wide man I don't mean half-hearted bottle droppers like Obertan who shits his pants at the prospect of actually going past someone and sticking a cross in. We shouldn't be talking about losing either Ba or Cisse, they should be used as the deadly strikers they are. Rotate them, it's not like we don't have enough matches to play. Agree with this. We shouldn't be having a discussion about Ba either being on the wing or leaving, if only because he's not a winger. We wouldn't be anywhere near the level we are now without him and his goals when we needed them most last season. Finding a way to make these 2 work together would paper over loads of cracks, especially this season, and it should be the priority of the manager/coaches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Because we actually played a bit fluent last season when he did. Pretty simple. In any case, keeping it as it now, shouldn't be an option. We need to mix it up, and that's a former proven recipe. a former proven recipe? lol oh please, demba played out wide in a handful, two handfuls of games at most, and those limited games got us to 5th? have a longer memory. we played the majority of our games last season in 4-4-2 dont forget. i personally am a big fan of 4-5-1/4-3-3 but you put your most effective most potent scorer out wide. As i said before that was a very different team than this one is and had different strengths and weaknesses. Krul Simpson Saylor Colo Raylor Obertan Cabaye Tiote Jonas Ba Best We didn't have Cisse, Ben Arfa, Santon and Jonas wasn't the player he is now who seems a spent force as a winger. Not to mention Cabaye's obviously at his best as the most advanced of the 3 instead of deep alongside Tiote. This is a totally different team which has different strengths and weaknesses and suits a more 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 type of style. Also that 6 winning streak was just as important as any run that season, without it we probably wouldn't have have even finished above Everton. It became obvious at that time that teams where starting to find us out in 4-4-2 and the change to 4-3-3 made us unpredictable and give us the final push so we could qualify for Europe. Honestly i think this first eleven is far from sorted yet like some assumed at the start of the season ( Danny Simpson last weak link etc etc) On Review we need a RB, CB, CM and LW before we can start talking like that but i do think playing 3 in midfield and actually passing through the midfield instead of completely by-passing it would sort out a lot of the problems. I would love to be able to say drop Cisse he isn't coming up with the goods ( all style of play and system excuses aside) but who do we have to come in? Sammy? i like Sammy and all but is he ready to start every week ? nope not for me. We just don't have the options to freshen the squad up like that, this is going to be probably not well received but if we receive good offers for Tiote and Ba's release clause is met i wouldn't mind that at all if it allows us to go again. As someone said before the summer will be very interesting indeed as we are probably going to lose a few and quite frankly if that happens i hope we turn it into a positive like we did with the whole Carroll, Barton and Nolan fiasco either that or we go backwards again. I do get the feeling that one of Ba or Cisse might have to go though in the long term as i really can't see them flourishing as a partnership and it's too expensive for a club like this to have one of them on the bench every week. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlelunchbox Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Because we actually played a bit fluent last season when he did. Pretty simple. In any case, keeping it as it now, shouldn't be an option. We need to mix it up, and that's a former proven recipe. a former proven recipe? lol oh please, demba played out wide in a handful, two handfuls of games at most, and those limited games got us to 5th? have a longer memory. we played the majority of our games last season in 4-4-2 dont forget. i personally am a big fan of 4-5-1/4-3-3 but you put your most effective most potent scorer out wide. As i said before that was a very different team than this one is and had different strengths and weaknesses. Krul Simpson Saylor Colo Raylor Obertan Cabaye Tiote Jonas Ba Best We didn't have Cisse, Ben Arfa, Santon and Jonas wasn't the player he is now who seems a spent force as a winger. Not to mention Cabaye's obviously at his best as the most advanced of the 3 instead of deep alongside Tiote. This is a totally different team which has different strengths and weaknesses and suits a more 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 type of style. Also that 6 winning streak was just as important as any run that season, without it we probably wouldn't have have even finished above Everton. It became obvious at that time that teams where starting to find us out in 4-4-2 and the change to 4-3-3 made us unpredictable and give us the final push so we could qualify for Europe. Honestly i think this first eleven is far from sorted yet like some assumed at the start of the season ( Danny Simpson last weak link etc etc) On Review we need a RB, CB, CM and LW before we can start talking like that but i do think playing 3 in midfield and actually passing through the midfield instead of completely by-passing it would sort out a lot of the problems. I would love to be able to say drop Cisse he isn't coming up with the goods ( all style of play and system excuses aside) but who do we have to come in? Sammy? i like Sammy and all but is he ready to start every week ? nope not for me. We just don't have the options to freshen the squad up like that, this is going to be probably not well received but if we receive good offers for Tiote and Ba's release clause is met i wouldn't mind that at all if it allows us to go again. As someone said before the summer will be very interesting indeed as we are probably going to lose a few and quite frankly if that happens i hope we turn it into a positive like we did with the whole Carroll, Barton and Nolan fiasco either that or we go backwards again. I do get the feeling that one of Ba or Cisse might have to go though in the long term as i really can't see them flourishing as a partnership and it's too expensive for a club like this to have one of them on the bench every week. if this club is ever going to move forward with success, eventually we are going to have expensive players on the bench, we had them in the past and we most probably will in the future. you say you cant drop Cisse because we cant afford it? regardless of him being completely off the boil and thats ludicrous? Having him in the team, forcefully shoe-horning him and Ba in the same line-up (even yourself mentioning its not working) is actually more of a detriment to our performances and more expensive, every position in the league pays out. personally i dont see it working with them two senegalese in a 4-4-2, or 4-5-1/4-3-3, one must be on the bench. if aston villa can afford to bench Darren Bent (£18 million) when he's off the boil, why can't we put Cisse on the bench once in a while? we got FA cup, europa league games, he has plenty of chances to play himself back in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisMcQuillan Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I'm with littlelunchbox on this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I agree with you tbh i just can't see it happening. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I feel so sorry for Cisse, tbf. Only in terms of him on the pitch, obviously. The way that we're trying to use him is absolutely ridiculous. We may as well play him in goal if we're going to play long balls. See also, Yohan Cabaye. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I feel so sorry for Cisse, tbf. Only in terms of him on the pitch, obviously. The way that we're trying to use him is absolutely ridiculous. We may as well play him in goal if we're going to play long balls. See also, Yohan Cabaye. Ben Arfa, Jonas, etc etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest n4e Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Tactics and formation aside; his movement, decision making and general play have been poor. His season so far can probably be summed up by the chance he had yesterday, one one with a defender with about 25-30 yards to goal and he just sliced it out of play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishMagpie Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 But surely some of this rests with the player himself? He's up top with a player from the same country/speaks the same language, could they not communicate and agree "you go front post and I'll go back post" sort of thing? Instead we get them occupying the same space and making the same runs time and again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I feel so sorry for Cisse, tbf. Only in terms of him on the pitch, obviously. The way that we're trying to use him is absolutely ridiculous. We may as well play him in goal if we're going to play long balls. See also, Yohan Cabaye. Ben Arfa, Jonas, etc etc. Ben Arfa and Cisse have both proved they can be extremely effective players. Cabaye and Jonas on the other hand had anonymous/ineffective performances throughout last season. In fact, Jonas has been the weakest link in the midfield since the days of Hughton. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Even though Ba didn't score when he was played wide last season, he was still playing very well in most games. We need to get back to that system because it suits pretty much all our players and we Cissé unfortunately is not suited for the wide role in that system, but Ba is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Ba playing on the left wasn't the reason he didn't score it was confidence and fitness he had chances but he wasn't taking them and personally i felt Ba's all round play was better when he played on the left the driving runs, flicks, passing and all round interchanging with his team mates was fantastic. It will never happen again though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Yeah Ba missed loads of chances to score when he played on the left Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanji Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Yep - he also hit the post/cross bar a few times, completely miss-kicked a few shots that should have been goals, missed a penalty etc. His movement was clever enough to get into the right places b/c he is a better all-around footballer than Cisse. Had he scored those goals he wouldn't have had 1 issue with playing out left - but I'm sure that was the easy thing to point to from his perspective. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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