Papiss Cissé

[Tiresias]

Cisse needs someone right behind him doing the back to goal stuff, and threading balls through, while he hangs off the shoulder of the last defender. Sissoko was meant to be doing it but seemed to lack the energy yesterday, Pardew maybe could have changed the game by switching Sissoko and Cabaye's positions, Cabaye who was livelier may have given Cisse some more opportunities.

[Jimburst]

TBF this is basically a new system (4231) because up until we bought Gouffran and Sissoko, we didn't have players capable of playing it.

 

Now we've played with these lads three times, against 2 champions league teams and a relegation candiate, and got 6 points, looking vastly improved. Once the formation and players are bedded in, I think we'll actually start forming proper chances for Cisse more regularly. Once that happens, if he still can't finish when given chances, I'll hold my hands up and say he's shite.

 

If not, I reckon we've still got a top class striker who will come good.

[Eddy Chibas]

Half the time Ba was here he played upfront.

 

I'm not disputing, or trying to use a few games (where he was deployed on the wing) as the underlying cause behind his missing shooting boots - in this case imho is a lack of composure in front of goal.

 

The way Pardew has used him (which is better suited to Ba's physical gifts, and as pairing this season they never fed off one another in the final 1/3) upfront, with the type of delivery fed forward,  has borne consequence

It will take more than just one day a week in training (ie working on each attacking element of the team's play) to correct/restore what Cisse has lost this year. I think we're relying too much on the players' (particularly Carr's continental assembly of well schooled technical types) prior football education & individual brilliance, and with this a

capability make an immediate impact hot off the plane, to push this team forward.

 

Age-wise Cisse isn't at the stage of a career where it basically falls apart in the space of 6 months and his game isn't reliant Ba-like power, and his record in the Bundesliga isn't exactly indicative of Carr falling in love with a one season wonder. Bundesliga form is usually good form ie. high quality technical football,  coupled with a tempo & pace which is comparable to the PL

 

For a club that want's to unearth & develop young technical players, ala Arsenal, we're backing the wrong horse in Pardew ie. as the figurehead & coaching whiz needed to drive the programe forward

 

 

As a footballer standalone, with a football brain, i have faith in Cisse with the right management & coaching philosophies/methods etc guiding him. As for Pardew's ability to extract the full potential of Carr's targets, and this includes the continued development of the early 20's like Anita & Moussa (and i mean mid to long term,beyond a dream home debut) i don't share the same level of optimism.

[ATB]

Looking were he is when he get the balls and were the rest of the team is I can´t understand the critic he gets. He has missed chances that he should score with, but it´s not that many chances he has got.

 

Since the french lads came in our play has improved a lot and I think Cissé has improved too and been really good without the ball. The problem is though that he´s so deep. If that´s him or how we are set up I don´t know, I´m going with the second choice.

 

We have improved but we are still lacking so much movement and you can easily see how important Goffran is to us. I would say that right now he is the most important player we got with his runs, he´s just so smart on the pitch. Look at that goal he scored for example. How many players in our team would have taken that position and done that run? That´s one criticism I can give Cisse, that´s he´s not the smartest player all the time.

[merlin]

Half the time Ba was here he played upfront.

 

I'm not disputing, or trying to use a few games (where he was deployed on the wing) as the underlying cause behind his missing shooting boots - in this case imho is a lack of composure in front of goal.

 

The way Pardew has used him (which is better suited to Ba's physical gifts, and as pairing this season they never fed off one another in the final 1/3) upfront, with the type of delivery fed forward,  has borne consequence

It will take more than just one day a week in training (ie working on each attacking element of the team's play) to correct/restore what Cisse has lost this year. I think we're relying too much on the players' (particularly Carr's continental assembly of well schooled technical types) prior football education & individual brilliance, and with this a

capability make an immediate impact hot off the plane, to push this team forward.

 

Age-wise Cisse isn't at the stage of a career where it basically falls apart in the space of 6 months and his game isn't reliant Ba-like power, and his record in the Bundesliga isn't exactly indicative of Carr falling in love with a one season wonder. Bundesliga form is usually good form ie. high quality technical football,  coupled with a tempo & pace which is comparable to the PL

 

For a club that want's to unearth & develop young technical players, ala Arsenal, we're backing the wrong horse in Pardew ie. as the figurehead & coaching whiz needed to drive the programe forward

 

 

As a footballer standalone, with a football brain, i have faith in Cisse with the right management & coaching philosophies/methods etc guiding him. As for Pardew's ability to extract the full potential of Carr's targets, and this includes the continued development of the early 20's like Anita & Moussa (and i mean mid to long term,beyond a dream home debut) i don't share the same level of optimism.

 

Agree - excellent post.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Yesterday was a tough away game against a side that can run all day, pressure you and break quickly etc. it was always going to be difficult to get the ball and keep it long enough to create proper chances for Cisse.

 

FWIW I don't think we should be constantly judging and assessing Cisse after every single game. We know what he can do and what he's not suited to. In a game where we can control possession more he is an absolutely lethal striker who will score plenty of goals.

 

In games when we only have scrappy possession he will always struggle a bit, in the same way that other similar strikers do. In those games we need an edge from our other forwards and players like Sissoko and Cabaye.

[The College Dropout]

I'm not claiming he's not a good striker or a poor finisher. I just don't think he offers enough to the team.

[The College Dropout]

You look at Gouff and you see how influential he was, even without the goal he was causing them trouble and helping the team get up and forward. We never get that from Cisse and it's not good enough.

 

Someone made a Shearer linkage with goal scoring form. Thing is, Alan Shearer was an all-rounder. You could pump it up to him to hold it up or flick it on, he ran the channels, he was an excellent crosser.

[ATB]

Of course he´s no Shearer, but he´s a completely different player. You can´t play long high balls to Cissé. Would you do that to Messi too and then complain that he can´t  compete in the air?

[themanupstairs]

You look at Gouff and you see how influential he was, even without the goal he was causing them trouble and helping the team get up and forward. We never get that from Cisse and it's not good enough.

Someone made a Shearer linkage with goal scoring form. Thing is, Alan Shearer was an all-rounder. You could pump it up to him to hold it up or flick it on, he ran the channels, he was an excellent crosser.

 

Not true man! Cisse took away two markers, and that's what helped Gouffran find the space for his goal.

[Guest nufc1892]

We need a striker who can grab goals coming off the bench, Cisse has only ever scored 15+ league goals twice in his career (since 2005)

[Flip]

You look at Gouff and you see how influential he was, even without the goal he was causing them trouble and helping the team get up and forward. We never get that from Cisse and it's not good enough.

Someone made a Shearer linkage with goal scoring form. Thing is, Alan Shearer was an all-rounder. You could pump it up to him to hold it up or flick it on, he ran the channels, he was an excellent crosser.

 

Not true man! Cisse took away two markers, and that's what helped Gouffran find the space for his goal.

 

As well as Cisses link up play has been better. I don't think he has ever played this position with his back to the goal, but he has certainly been improving that linkup play for the last three games.

[Flip]

Except he scored 22 league goals in the last two seasons, and 14 and 16 league goals in the seasons before that.

[Flip]

He has 18 in 38 for us in the league with many games having seen him play out wide...

[The College Dropout]

Of course he´s no Shearer, but he´s a completely different player. You can´t play long high balls to Cissé. Would you do that to Messi too and then complain that he can´t  compete in the air?

 

You're going to compare the best player ever, to Papiss Cisse? A false nine, to a true nine?

 

I expect Cisse to lead the bloody line.

[Ronaldo]

Why?

[The College Dropout]

Because that's what top strikers do. Be a fucking out ball

[Mole_Toonfan]

Even when its quite obvious he's not a target man? just why.

 

You play to your strikers strengths and banging the ball into Cisse's face isn't his strength. If you want that type of striker you might as well sell him to Arsenal and get Giroud if its at all possible.

 

We played to Cisse's strengths when he arrived and he excelled, if you want to bang the ball into a players face then doing it to Sissoko or Gouffran would make much more sense.

 

I don't mind Cisse participating in build up, dropping deep linking with others he can do that no problem but Krul banging the ball up to him is just a waste of time.

 

If you want a striker to lead the line then Cisse isn't the answer but he's great at many other things if we actually played to those strengths he would excell i'm quite sure.

 

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

There are as many different types of striker as there are any other position of player. It's our job to use the players we have to their full potential, not complain they aren't a different type.

 

Personally I fooking love Papisto.

[Elliottman]

There are as many different types of striker as there are any other position of player. It's our job to use the players we have to their full potential, not complain they aren't a different type.

 

Personally I fooking love Papisto.

 

Aye, there's no problem with Cisse. He's been playing well lately.

[Mole_Toonfan]

There are as many different types of striker as there are any other position of player. It's our job to use the players we have to their full potential, not complain they aren't a different type.

 

Personally I fooking love Papisto.

 

For some reason there needs to be a scapegoat every time we lose, this time its been Santon and Cisse.

[Tooj]

It seems to me the people he's getting most criticism from are those ones that were staunch defenders of Ba prior to us selling him. Personally I think he's getting a bit of a hard time on here at the moment, Ba's left now so we need to stop bringing him up and give Cisse our support.

 

The goals will come I'm certain of that. He looks to be getting back to his best, slowly mind but there's definitely been signs of improvement from him in recent weeks. Still think Pardew needs to look at ways to give him service and play to his strengths, he's not a target man and never will be so it's pointless making him play with his back to goal as that's not what he's about. We need to focus more on creating chances for him, if we do that then he'll improve as will we as a team.

 

I have faith in you lad.

[Gallowgate Toon]

Only a handful of strikers would have been of any use in Cisse's position yesterday, and by that I mean a complete striker who can link up, hold off defenders and get regular goals. As if Cisse was going to be of any use feeding off scraps and getting involved in aerial battles, with only one player (who was also fighting for space himself) in close proximity.

 

Stick Aguero in Cisse's position yesterday, and keep the same set up and style of play and we'd have seen no improvement in keeping the ball. When we're backs to the wall like that, then we need to get some cohesive counter attacking going, not some lump it and hope crap. As a team we were simply too deep in that second half, we need to play to players' strengths, then we'll see improved play overall.

 

We have a very good midfield now, they should be looked upon to drive the team on, not Papiss, who seems to be a victim of his own physique. He's not small and not completely weak but doesn't have enough brain or physicality to perform a target man role, our coach doesn't seem to see that however.

[Gallowgate Toon]

From my memory, Ba's link up play was no better than average for us. He couldn't win a lot in the air, often not even bothering to challenge, and I wouldn't have said he was that polished on the deck either, his touch was woeful at times and his passing was erratic.

[The College Dropout]

Falcao, RVP, Wayne Rooney, in form Torres, even Demba Ba etc. aren't target men either but they still lead the line, work the channels, bring others into play, create space for others intentionally.

 

If you're going to be upfront by yourself you're going to need to lead the line.