Papiss Cissé

[Cajun]

By the sounds of it, it's him saying no btw. Not the club (I don't even think we can?)

 

Doubt we can, we couldn't play Cisse earlier in the Cisse because we didn't allow him to play for Senegal didn't we?

[Mick]

By the sounds of it, it's him saying no btw. Not the club (I don't even think we can?)

 

He can't even make that decision, can he?

[Cajun]

By the sounds of it, it's him saying no btw. Not the club (I don't even think we can?)

 

He can't even make that decision, can he?

 

Am I making it up or did a few years ago a player got in trouble because they refused his decision to retire from international football?

[JH]

I'm sure a player can reject a call up can't they?

[JH]

Actually, just found this from when Eto rejected a call up to the Cameroon squad last Summer:

 

"A player called to the national team is obliged to come - the decision is not up to the player.

 

"In accordance with the national team disciplinary code, a player can be suspended and the suspension can be extended to his club - he can be banned for life for not attending a convocation of the national team.

[Cajun]

Ridiculous rule.

[Geordinho]

But he's English isn't he? 

[Lotus]

With the current emphasis on pumping early balls into the forward line (against positionally set centrehalves) Cisse will be ineffective through the middle. Not slating him (because i think he is very good at what he does) but his game revolves around avoiding contact, relying on movement (sneaking across the face of the centrehalves, with angled weighted balls/crossed fed in). I just don't think he is cut out for the task of getting battered around battling for speculative balls , they're 50/50s at best.

Ba is the better athlete, offers greater physical presence , and provides mpore nuisance value against 6ft+ centrebacks, so he is ultimately better suited to Pardew's 'Wimbledon' like philosophy of attack.

 

Cisse wrestling with, and getting bullied around like a rag-doll has eaten into his confidence and flow-on effect is obvious -  namelyon his finishing. He's snapping at his chances, has the look of a rushed finisher (hearing footsteps) who has lost his awareness of space around him & where closing-in defenders are.

 

The guy who must be scratching his head atm is Carr. He scouted and followed this bloke's progress for a few seasons. It took an unlikely set of circumstances to get this a polished/finished articlehere, within Ashley's spending parameters at a knock-down price,and it's taken less than six months of battering-ram football (more suited to Allardyce's Carroll, and K.jones) to destroy him.

 

Unless there's a seismic shift in Pardew's approach, there's no point in him being here. Lost opportunity this is turning (turned) into.

 

Completely agree with this. Cisse is a waste of purple ink. We'd be better selling him and putting the money towards a Kenwyn Jones type. I think, ultimately, HBA will also prove to be the wrong sort of player for us. We need someone who will get the ball early to the forwards, not someone who wants to dally about or look to take a player on.

[Jack Flash]

Pardew says he's "a victim of injuries" as Ben Arfa and Cabaye aren't there to supply him. No concession at all about him playing on the wing/just outside HMV.

[Dave]

"I think Papiss is just a victim of our injury programme, if I'm honest," said the Magpies boss.

 

"Without (Hatem) Ben Arfa and (Yohan) Cabaye we've lacked a bit of flair and quality in the final third and of course if you've got that it creates moments for Papiss to finish.

 

"He hasn't had a lot moments in games but his work-rate, his commitment to the cause, cannot be faulted and we continue to work with him and hopefully he'll get the goals soon."

 

Ah yes, we're missing those intricately threaded through-balls out to to the corner flag.

 

Make it stop.

[Legacy]

Is there anything he hasn't blamed on injuries?

[Dave]

Is there anything he hasn't blamed on injuries?

 

Any of the World Wars. But there's time.

[Interpolic]

Is there anything he hasn't blamed on injuries?

 

Any of the World Wars. But there's time.

 

It'll happen if SOMEBODY ASKS.

[Dr Venkman]

He could have remedied that partly by playing Marveaux, he's full of shit.

[Cajun]

Is he wrong?

 

Tiote, Perch, Jonas notorious creators of goals? Cisse has missed chances but it can't be denied we are missing 'door openers'.

[Mick]

Is he wrong?

 

Tiote, Perch, Jonas notorious creators of goals? Cisse has missed chances but it can't be denied we are missing 'door openers'.

 

We managed to find one at about 4:30 on Saturday, the sly bastard must have been in hiding.

[Unbelievable]

Is he wrong?

 

Tiote, Perch, Jonas notorious creators of goals? Cisse has missed chances but it can't be denied we are missing 'door openers'.

 

We managed to find one at about 4:30 on Saturday, the sly b****** must have been in hiding.

 

As if Cisse would have 100% scored that "chance". Marv's little wait and pass was important like, but it was hardly put on a plate for Shola..

[Mick]

 

 

As if Cisse would have 1005 scored that "chance". Marv's little wait and pass was important like, but it was hardly put on a plate for Shola..

 

ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Skeletor]

 

 

As if Cisse would have 1005 scored that "chance". Marv's little wait and pass was important like, but it was hardly put on a plate for Shola..

 

ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-w6K1T9j5of8/UBvTpOs7UjI/AAAAAAAAAso/D8v9_gVIQmo/s1600/tumblr_m0c24flZ4I1qhisau.gif

[Dr Venkman]

Why are you being so pretentious? "Excuses", what excuses? He's had a clear dip in form and people are trying to come up with reasons why, they aren't excuses.

 

It's not like there has been any reports of him not pulling his weight in training, or he isn't applying himself on the pitch, there are clearly other reasons for his dip in form. I don't necessarily think it's all Pardew's fault, that would be harsh, but at the moment it is as he's playing him on the f***ing wing.

 

Trying to come up with reasons why his form has dipped and then only ending up with reasons outside of his control is what I call making excuses. Pretty sure that's what making excuses means too, but than again English is nog my mother tongue so I may be wrong..

 

As for the reason why Cisse has been so disappointing, I don't know and I din't want to theorise. What I do know though, and that's how this argument started, is that moving Ba who is scoring away from goal to accomodate a stuttering Cisse in the centre seems like utter madness to me.

 

As mad as moving Cisse away from the centre to accommodate a sulking, stuttering Ba?

 

Beggars f***ing belief this like.

 

I knew this was coming. I for one am perfectly happy for our best players to request being played in their preferred position, as long as they deliver when they are. Ba has delivered whenever he has played in the centre for us, Cisse hasn't so far this season, so with a change from two to one central striker it was obvious he was the one going wide for a while or out of the first team altogether (which I would have preferred btw). I fully expect Cisse to get frustrated for being played out wide, just as Ba did. Four games in, and the first signs were there last Saturday. He will have to walk the walk too though, like Ba did when he requested to play centrally. As I said, in a 433 there is only one place for a real central striker, which they both are. May the best one win. At the moment that is Ba. I really hope Cisse refinds his form of last year and reclaims his place. That's primarily up to him though; if he keeps missing chances at this rate it may be a while yet. If he starts banging them in I am sure nobody will be more delighted than Pardew himself.

 

The manager needs to do what's best for the team based on the evidence available. He's not doing it, and he wouldn't be sacrificing anything by trying something which worked so well last season.

 

If Cisse was playing anywhere near as well as last season we wouldn't even be having this debate. As it is, displacing the forward who is doing the business to accomodate the one who isn't is indeed a huge sacrifice considering where we would be right now if Ba's form was like Cisse's this season.

 

 

None of that takes into account the fact that Cisse hasn't once been sent out as the middle striker of a 3 this season, and that may have something to do with his drop in form.

 

I get it though, we're playing badly and getting shit results but you two are concerned about changing anything

 

Cisse has had chances and missed them, it's very odd that the only way he can perform is if he is specifically in the middle of a front 3.

 

Doing the man a massive discredit there, he isn't Defore/Bent, he is just going through a poor patch which isn't the time you move one forward to a position he doesn't score in the hope an underperforming one will start.

 

Cisse will get more chances playing in the middle. Ba will get the chances Cisse is getting now if he plays wide, just as he did last season.

 

More importantly than all of that, the team will function better.

[Dr Venkman]

Why are you being so pretentious? "Excuses", what excuses? He's had a clear dip in form and people are trying to come up with reasons why, they aren't excuses.

 

It's not like there has been any reports of him not pulling his weight in training, or he isn't applying himself on the pitch, there are clearly other reasons for his dip in form. I don't necessarily think it's all Pardew's fault, that would be harsh, but at the moment it is as he's playing him on the f***ing wing.

 

Trying to come up with reasons why his form has dipped and then only ending up with reasons outside of his control is what I call making excuses. Pretty sure that's what making excuses means too, but than again English is nog my mother tongue so I may be wrong..

 

As for the reason why Cisse has been so disappointing, I don't know and I din't want to theorise. What I do know though, and that's how this argument started, is that moving Ba who is scoring away from goal to accomodate a stuttering Cisse in the centre seems like utter madness to me.

 

As mad as moving Cisse away from the centre to accommodate a sulking, stuttering Ba?

 

Beggars f***ing belief this like.

 

I knew this was coming. I for one am perfectly happy for our best players to request being played in their preferred position, as long as they deliver when they are. Ba has delivered whenever he has played in the centre for us, Cisse hasn't so far this season, so with a change from two to one central striker it was obvious he was the one going wide for a while or out of the first team altogether (which I would have preferred btw). I fully expect Cisse to get frustrated for being played out wide, just as Ba did. Four games in, and the first signs were there last Saturday. He will have to walk the walk too though, like Ba did when he requested to play centrally. As I said, in a 433 there is only one place for a real central striker, which they both are. May the best one win. At the moment that is Ba. I really hope Cisse refinds his form of last year and reclaims his place. That's primarily up to him though; if he keeps missing chances at this rate it may be a while yet. If he starts banging them in I am sure nobody will be more delighted than Pardew himself.

 

The manager needs to do what's best for the team based on the evidence available. He's not doing it, and he wouldn't be sacrificing anything by trying something which worked so well last season.

 

If Cisse was playing anywhere near as well as last season we wouldn't even be having this debate. As it is, displacing the forward who is doing the business to accomodate the one who isn't is indeed a huge sacrifice considering where we would be right now if Ba's form was like Cisse's this season.

 

We did it at the start of this season for the sake of a sulking striker. Why can't we do it now for the sake of an under performing team getting s*** results?

 

Except we didn't. We reverted to the tactic we employed for 80% of our matches last season to great effect and accommodated both Ba and Cisse in central forward positions in an attempt to combine our defensive solidity of last season with playing two top class strikers capable of scoring 50 goals between them in theory. Whilst it's clearly not worked out as we hoped it would, I find it extremely simplistic to discredit this concept with the benefit of hindsight considering the fact we have also looked extremely vulnerable at times with the 433 formation that's now considered to be some sort of silver bullet by some on here.

 

Excuse me? Are you seriously suggesting that there aren't members of this forum who've expressed their concern about these players in a 4-4-2 since the beginning of last season?

 

Pardew got away with 'keep it tight, nobody move, pass it to Ba' for a good while and it was fun but so many people on here were talking about it being unsustainable.

 

We're discrediting the concept of these players in a 4-4-2 with hindsight? I've heard everything now.

[Unbelievable]

Why are you being so pretentious? "Excuses", what excuses? He's had a clear dip in form and people are trying to come up with reasons why, they aren't excuses.

 

It's not like there has been any reports of him not pulling his weight in training, or he isn't applying himself on the pitch, there are clearly other reasons for his dip in form. I don't necessarily think it's all Pardew's fault, that would be harsh, but at the moment it is as he's playing him on the f***ing wing.

 

Trying to come up with reasons why his form has dipped and then only ending up with reasons outside of his control is what I call making excuses. Pretty sure that's what making excuses means too, but than again English is nog my mother tongue so I may be wrong..

 

As for the reason why Cisse has been so disappointing, I don't know and I din't want to theorise. What I do know though, and that's how this argument started, is that moving Ba who is scoring away from goal to accomodate a stuttering Cisse in the centre seems like utter madness to me.

 

As mad as moving Cisse away from the centre to accommodate a sulking, stuttering Ba?

 

Beggars f***ing belief this like.

 

I knew this was coming. I for one am perfectly happy for our best players to request being played in their preferred position, as long as they deliver when they are. Ba has delivered whenever he has played in the centre for us, Cisse hasn't so far this season, so with a change from two to one central striker it was obvious he was the one going wide for a while or out of the first team altogether (which I would have preferred btw). I fully expect Cisse to get frustrated for being played out wide, just as Ba did. Four games in, and the first signs were there last Saturday. He will have to walk the walk too though, like Ba did when he requested to play centrally. As I said, in a 433 there is only one place for a real central striker, which they both are. May the best one win. At the moment that is Ba. I really hope Cisse refinds his form of last year and reclaims his place. That's primarily up to him though; if he keeps missing chances at this rate it may be a while yet. If he starts banging them in I am sure nobody will be more delighted than Pardew himself.

 

The manager needs to do what's best for the team based on the evidence available. He's not doing it, and he wouldn't be sacrificing anything by trying something which worked so well last season.

 

If Cisse was playing anywhere near as well as last season we wouldn't even be having this debate. As it is, displacing the forward who is doing the business to accomodate the one who isn't is indeed a huge sacrifice considering where we would be right now if Ba's form was like Cisse's this season.

 

We did it at the start of this season for the sake of a sulking striker. Why can't we do it now for the sake of an under performing team getting s*** results?

 

Except we didn't. We reverted to the tactic we employed for 80% of our matches last season to great effect and accommodated both Ba and Cisse in central forward positions in an attempt to combine our defensive solidity of last season with playing two top class strikers capable of scoring 50 goals between them in theory. Whilst it's clearly not worked out as we hoped it would, I find it extremely simplistic to discredit this concept with the benefit of hindsight considering the fact we have also looked extremely vulnerable at times with the 433 formation that's now considered to be some sort of silver bullet by some on here.

 

Excuse me? Are you seriously suggesting that there aren't members of this forum who've expressed their concern about these players in a 4-4-2 since the beginning of last season?

 

Pardew got away with 'keep it tight, nobody move, pass it to Ba' for a good while and it was fun but so many people on here were talking about it being unsustainable.

 

We're discrediting the concept of these players in a 4-4-2 with hindsight? I've heard everything now.

 

A 442 with Ba and Cisse up top, both central, both capable of 25 goals a season in that position in theory and Ben Arfa in support, starting from the right but with a license to roam? It worked with lesser players (Best, Shola) to an extent last season, so yes, I feel it was definitely worth a shot. If Cisse had brought his shooting boots from summer holiday we probably wouldn't even be having this discussion.

[themanupstairs]

Why are you being so pretentious? "Excuses", what excuses? He's had a clear dip in form and people are trying to come up with reasons why, they aren't excuses.

 

It's not like there has been any reports of him not pulling his weight in training, or he isn't applying himself on the pitch, there are clearly other reasons for his dip in form. I don't necessarily think it's all Pardew's fault, that would be harsh, but at the moment it is as he's playing him on the f***ing wing.

 

Trying to come up with reasons why his form has dipped and then only ending up with reasons outside of his control is what I call making excuses. Pretty sure that's what making excuses means too, but than again English is nog my mother tongue so I may be wrong..

 

As for the reason why Cisse has been so disappointing, I don't know and I din't want to theorise. What I do know though, and that's how this argument started, is that moving Ba who is scoring away from goal to accomodate a stuttering Cisse in the centre seems like utter madness to me.

 

As mad as moving Cisse away from the centre to accommodate a sulking, stuttering Ba?

 

Beggars f***ing belief this like.

 

I knew this was coming. I for one am perfectly happy for our best players to request being played in their preferred position, as long as they deliver when they are. Ba has delivered whenever he has played in the centre for us, Cisse hasn't so far this season, so with a change from two to one central striker it was obvious he was the one going wide for a while or out of the first team altogether (which I would have preferred btw). I fully expect Cisse to get frustrated for being played out wide, just as Ba did. Four games in, and the first signs were there last Saturday. He will have to walk the walk too though, like Ba did when he requested to play centrally. As I said, in a 433 there is only one place for a real central striker, which they both are. May the best one win. At the moment that is Ba. I really hope Cisse refinds his form of last year and reclaims his place. That's primarily up to him though; if he keeps missing chances at this rate it may be a while yet. If he starts banging them in I am sure nobody will be more delighted than Pardew himself.

 

The manager needs to do what's best for the team based on the evidence available. He's not doing it, and he wouldn't be sacrificing anything by trying something which worked so well last season.

 

If Cisse was playing anywhere near as well as last season we wouldn't even be having this debate. As it is, displacing the forward who is doing the business to accomodate the one who isn't is indeed a huge sacrifice considering where we would be right now if Ba's form was like Cisse's this season.

 

We did it at the start of this season for the sake of a sulking striker. Why can't we do it now for the sake of an under performing team getting s*** results?

 

Except we didn't. We reverted to the tactic we employed for 80% of our matches last season to great effect and accommodated both Ba and Cisse in central forward positions in an attempt to combine our defensive solidity of last season with playing two top class strikers capable of scoring 50 goals between them in theory. Whilst it's clearly not worked out as we hoped it would, I find it extremely simplistic to discredit this concept with the benefit of hindsight considering the fact we have also looked extremely vulnerable at times with the 433 formation that's now considered to be some sort of silver bullet by some on here.

 

Excuse me? Are you seriously suggesting that there aren't members of this forum who've expressed their concern about these players in a 4-4-2 since the beginning of last season?

 

Pardew got away with 'keep it tight, nobody move, pass it to Ba' for a good while and it was fun but so many people on here were talking about it being unsustainable.

 

We're discrediting the concept of these players in a 4-4-2 with hindsight? I've heard everything now.

 

A 442 with Ba and Cisse up top, both central, both capable of 25 goals a season in that position in theory and Ben Arfa in support, starting from the right but with a license to roam? It worked with lesser players (Best, Shola) to an extent last season, so yes, I feel it was definitely worth a shot. If Cisse had brought his shooting boots from summer holiday we probably wouldn't even be having this discussion.

 

Do not disagree with that in theory. I've always said that with 2 strikers capable of 15 odd goals each in half a season, we shouldn't even think twice about playing them together up front, trying to get maximum return. A strike force of Ba and Cisse on paper, if it clicks, could easily get us CL football imo. IF it clicks. Evidence so far seems to be that they don't play well together for whatever reason, but I do not fault Pardew for trying to see if it does. It was bang on the right decision to try it.

 

Keep in mind that last season it was Obertan who played on the right, and he provided much more width in the 442 than HBA does. One is a natural winger, the other isn't.

[Parky]

2 strikers is dark ages stuff. In the modern game the 2nd striker is a link player now between the midfield and the attack. He makes sure the team keeps posession till the attacking phase is properly supported. Nobody just kicks it up to 2 strikers. Nobody.

[pi_D]

2 strikers is dark ages stuff. In the modern game the 2nd striker is a link player now between the midfield and the attack. He makes sure the team keeps posession till the attacking phase is properly supported. Nobody just kicks it up to 2 strikers. Nobody.