sunderland

[Skeletor]

This is going far better than expected

[ujpest doza]

Politics and football are linked. End of story.

 

can you expand on that?

 

I already have earlier in the thread.

 

Football clubs represent people and places. They inevitably take on the political identity of those places. Just because the game is a global money making machine does not change that. Barca-Real isn't the biggest game in world football because they're two very good teams.

 

This is utter nonsense - NUFC is in what is generally accepted as a Labour voting area, but many of the fans share a love of the club whilst having totally different views about politics - and politics should NOT enter sport, OR be linked to it. Hitler tried that in the 30s but the England Team(and Jesse Owens in the Olympics)rammed that down his throat....similarly, the Soviets and Chinese have both tried to use sport to boost Communism and ironically, the Chinese have only started to show at the top of Olympic medal tables since they moved away from Maoism and to what is basically a Capitalist economy. Ask the likes of Olga Korbut and various Iron Curtain gymnasts what they thought of sport being used to foster a political agenda...

 

As for Barca and Real, the only way they represent a political viewpoint is because the Catalans want autonomy from Spain and they identify Barca's successes with that aim, just as Real fans use Madrid as an emblem of Spanish would-be supremacy. There is NO similar situation in the UK unless you use the former rivalry between Celtic and Rangers and that is based on religion rather than politics - another thing which should be kept separate from sport.

If you are trying to identify NUFC and most other Northern sides with the left wing of politics, it is hardly worth it if you subscribe to that view because apart from the 2 Manchester clubs, one of whom has many southerners in its fan-base, the northern clubs are not as successful whereas clubs in London(viewed by many Northerners as a den of Toryism)like Spurs and Arsenal have been more successful......

 

Politics has NO place in football whatsoever - either to boost the Right OR the Left and every effort should be made to keep the 2 separate. I agree with Felipao's views about the whole thing and about Di Canio...

As I said before, I am far more concerned about his possible impact on the Mackems - and hence, on our chances of relegation - than any madcap political stance/demonstration he might make. If he replicates his successes at Swindon, any Socialists in the Sunderland fan-base won't give 2 stuffs about his views....

 

As Felipao said, we should be far more concerned about appointing a Lge 1 manager with a dodgy managerial record behind him........

 

You've just massively oversimplified the rivalry between Real and Barca. Well done.

 

Your argument is that politics and sport should remain separate however they are not. No amount of hand wringing will change that. They're linked and forever will be. I'm sorry if that upsets you.

 

I've also never once tried to prescribe a political leaning to NUFC. You've simply assumed I have.

Yes they are man.

 

We have 50K crowds made up of people from all walks of life and all political persuasions.

 

PDC's politics are irrelavent and like the above poster said we should be more concerned about any positive impact he has in terms of motivation despite his weak managerial cv.

[ujpest doza]

Walked out of his press conference according to this:

 

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2013/04/02/no-questions-allowed-fascist-manager-arrives-at-sunderland?

 

 

Sky News sports correspondent just said that journalists who raise unwelcome questions could be banned from SAFC in future.

All getting a bit scarily right wing down there.

NUFC have been known to ban journalists left right and centre loads of times over the years and still do.

[themanupstairs]

So we're concerned about the free-speech loving tabloid journalists now?

 

These shit stirring twats are a massive problem, and very very few of them are a credit to their profession.

[Unbelievable]

Ok, they are mackems, unwashed and we hate them. But it's not the fans' decision that brought Di Canio to their club. It was the decision of one, or possibly a small group of people at the top to interview then hire him. The Sunderland fans are desperate for something to cheer about, and even more desperate to stay up. Those who are acting like bellends condoning his views etc. are doing it out of a mix of ignorance and desperation.

 

I don't think it says too much about their values as a collective sporting club when it was most probably the decision of their American owner.

 

I do agree with this; the fans are just trying to look on the bright side in the hope he saves them from relegation and proves to be a Mourinho in the making. Heaven knowns what the owner/board was thinking however..

[David Icke - Son of God]

Politics and football are linked. End of story.

 

can you expand on that?

 

I already have earlier in the thread.

 

Football clubs represent people and places. They inevitably take on the political identity of those places. Just because the game is a global money making machine does not change that. Barca-Real isn't the biggest game in world football because they're two very good teams.

 

This is utter nonsense - NUFC is in what is generally accepted as a Labour voting area, but many of the fans share a love of the club whilst having totally different views about politics - and politics should NOT enter sport, OR be linked to it. Hitler tried that in the 30s but the England Team(and Jesse Owens in the Olympics)rammed that down his throat....similarly, the Soviets and Chinese have both tried to use sport to boost Communism and ironically, the Chinese have only started to show at the top of Olympic medal tables since they moved away from Maoism and to what is basically a Capitalist economy. Ask the likes of Olga Korbut and various Iron Curtain gymnasts what they thought of sport being used to foster a political agenda...

 

As for Barca and Real, the only way they represent a political viewpoint is because the Catalans want autonomy from Spain and they identify Barca's successes with that aim, just as Real fans use Madrid as an emblem of Spanish would-be supremacy. There is NO similar situation in the UK unless you use the former rivalry between Celtic and Rangers and that is based on religion rather than politics - another thing which should be kept separate from sport.

If you are trying to identify NUFC and most other Northern sides with the left wing of politics, it is hardly worth it if you subscribe to that view because apart from the 2 Manchester clubs, one of whom has many southerners in its fan-base, the northern clubs are not as successful whereas clubs in London(viewed by many Northerners as a den of Toryism)like Spurs and Arsenal have been more successful......

 

Politics has NO place in football whatsoever - either to boost the Right OR the Left and every effort should be made to keep the 2 separate. I agree with Felipao's views about the whole thing and about Di Canio...

As I said before, I am far more concerned about his possible impact on the Mackems - and hence, on our chances of relegation - than any madcap political stance/demonstration he might make. If he replicates his successes at Swindon, any Socialists in the Sunderland fan-base won't give 2 stuffs about his views....

 

As Felipao said, we should be far more concerned about appointing a Lge 1 manager with a dodgy managerial record behind him........

 

You've just massively oversimplified the rivalry between Real and Barca. Well done.

 

Your argument is that politics and sport should remain separate however they are not. No amount of hand wringing will change that. They're linked and forever will be. I'm sorry if that upsets you.

 

I've also never once tried to prescribe a political leaning to NUFC. You've simply assumed I have.

Yes they are man.

 

We have 50K crowds made up of people from all walks of life and all political persuasions.

 

PDC's politics are irrelavent and like the above poster said we should be more concerned about any positive impact he has in terms of motivation despite his weak managerial cv.

 

They're not. They're just not

[BlueStar]

PVC might not even be there for the derby at this rate

 

Can't believe some of the hand wringing that's still going on "Won't somebody please think of the fascists"

 

http://i.imgur.com/JVL1fCj.jpg

 

Not a single poster has said that. I'll admit I haven't read every single post since the appointment, but out all the posts I have seen, no one has seriously said that.

 

Not sure if serious...

[mrmojorisin75]

genuine question; where was the outrage when he was appointed boss of swindon from the same posters on here, or does it only matter now he's hit the big time?

[George Bailey]

He does dress pretty sharply, in fairness.

 

Fascists have always had a good sense of style. The Nazi's were clad in Hugo Boss.

 

Yes they often used the Jewish prisoners in the concentration camps to make their dapper uniforms.

[BlueStar]

So we're concerned about the free-speech loving tabloid journalists now?

 

These shit stirring twats are a massive problem, and very very few of them are a credit to their profession.

 

But you can't criticise them for that!  It's journalism, not politics.  What do their views and actions have to do with anything?  If you express your opinion on their behaviour you're basically oppressing them, stop it.

[David Icke - Son of God]

genuine question; where was the outrage when he was appointed boss of swindon from the same posters on here, or does it only matter now he's hit the big time?

I don't remember it being widely discussed on here but I've always been anti-Di Canio. Detest the way he could get away with being a fascist because he was a bit of a character. I'm glad the press are finally asking uncomfortable questions, the fact that the Mackems are showing themselves up just makes this entire saga even sweeter.

[Jack Flash]

genuine question; where was the outrage when he was appointed boss of swindon from the same posters on here, or does it only matter now he's hit the big time?

 

Bandwagon/48-hour Angry villagers syndrome.

[cp40]

genuine question; where was the outrage when he was appointed boss of swindon from the same posters on here, or does it only matter now he's hit the big time?

 

 

directed at whoever else was the Sunderland manager at the time.

[Dokko]

I forgot Swindon are our local rivals.

[themanupstairs]

So we're concerned about the free-speech loving tabloid journalists now?

 

These s*** stirring t***s are a massive problem, and very very few of them are a credit to their profession.

 

But you can't criticise them for that!  It's journalism, not politics.  What do their views and actions have to do with anything?  If you express your opinion on their behaviour you're basically oppressing them, stop it.

 

How is journalism and politics not directly linked? The profession was created and continues to be used to influence public opinion! SAFC is a privately owned company and they can ban whoever they like from their press conferences. Once again, I don't deny that the club has brought this shit storm on itself. Whether they intended to do that or not, they're now scrambling to try and deal with it. As long as they do that without breaking any laws, then so what?

[BlueStar]

genuine question; where was the outrage when he was appointed boss of swindon from the same posters on here, or does it only matter now he's hit the big time?

 

I genuinely don't even understand why this question has to be asked.  There'd be more outrage if Nick Griffin became a member of cabinet then if he became MP.  There'd be more outrage on here if a jihadi sympathiser was the CEO of Amazon than if he was the boss of a haulage firm in Kent.  There'd be more outrage on here if someone with extreme views took over North Tyneside council than if they took over somewhere in London or France.  Proximity and the high-profile or otherwise nature of the position, it's no real mystery.  We've had a thread on the mackems sicne the board was opened, go have a look in the Swindon thread to see if it was discussed there.

[Pilko]

Referring to himself in the third person

 

Glenn Roeder thinks Paulo di Canio sounds ridiculous talking in the third person..... Roeder was quoted as saying, earlier today

[BlueStar]

So we're concerned about the free-speech loving tabloid journalists now?

 

These s*** stirring t***s are a massive problem, and very very few of them are a credit to their profession.

 

But you can't criticise them for that!  It's journalism, not politics.  What do their views and actions have to do with anything?  If you express your opinion on their behaviour you're basically oppressing them, stop it.

 

How is journalism and politics not directly linked? The profession was created and continues to be used to influence public opinion! SAFC is a privately owned company and they can ban whoever they like from their press conferences. Once again, I don't deny that the club has brought this shit storm on itself. Whether they intended to do that or not, they're now scrambling to try and deal with it. As long as they do that without breaking any laws, then so what?

 

Football influences public opinion!  It probably influences public opinion more than every leaflet put through every bloody door in the country!  The very fact that this debate is going on is evidence that it's not 'so what', people have a pretty non-controversial opinion that they don't want a fascist manager in the premier league and people are trying to imply they can't hold that opinion because it somehow infringes on the rights of others for reasons I can't quite pin down.  Paolo Di Canio has the right to be a fascist, other people have the right to believe he's a fucking cunt for holding those views, that they don't want him in the club or the league or the sport and they will continue to say so.

[themanupstairs]

So we're concerned about the free-speech loving tabloid journalists now?

 

These s*** stirring t***s are a massive problem, and very very few of them are a credit to their profession.

 

But you can't criticise them for that!  It's journalism, not politics.  What do their views and actions have to do with anything?  If you express your opinion on their behaviour you're basically oppressing them, stop it.

 

How is journalism and politics not directly linked? The profession was created and continues to be used to influence public opinion! SAFC is a privately owned company and they can ban whoever they like from their press conferences. Once again, I don't deny that the club has brought this s*** storm on itself. Whether they intended to do that or not, they're now scrambling to try and deal with it. As long as they do that without breaking any laws, then so what?

 

Football influences public opinion!  It probably influences public opinion more than every leaflet put through every bloody door in the country!  The very fact that this debate is going on is evidence that it's not 'so what', people have a pretty non-controversial opinion that they don't want a fascist manager in the premier league and people are trying to imply they can't hold that opinion because it somehow infringes on the rights of others for reasons I can't quite pin down.  Paolo Di Canio has the right to be a fascist, other people have the right to believe he's a f***ing c*** for holding those views and they will continue to say so.

 

Not going to disagree with that at all. However, PL or L2, it shouldn't matter imo. He'll be in as much of a role model position to kids growing up in Sunderland as he was for kids growing up in Swindon.

[BlueStar]

Hope other fans jump on the bandwagon and start giving him shit.  Sadly they've got Chelsea next and they like a bit of right-wing - but fascism has always conflicted far-right hooligans.  On the one hand they admire the strident nationalism, on the other they want to glorify England's war victories against that very ideology.  Hopefully his West Ham links will push it to the latter and they'll go for the whole "10 fascist bombers" route.  That's the stick the Sun is using to beat him with today.

 

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4869485/War-veterans-boycott-fascist-Sunderland-manager-Paolo-Di-Canio.html

[mrmojorisin75]

genuine question; where was the outrage when he was appointed boss of swindon from the same posters on here, or does it only matter now he's hit the big time?

 

I genuinely don't even understand why this question has to be asked.  There'd be more outrage if Nick Griffin became a member of cabinet then if he became MP.  There'd be more outrage on here if a jihadi sympathiser was the CEO of Amazon than if he was the boss of a haulage firm in Kent.  There'd be more outrage on here if someone with extreme views took over North Tyneside council than if they took over somewhere in London or France.  Proximity and the high-profile or otherwise nature of the position, it's no real mystery.  We've had a thread on the mackems sicne the board was opened, go have a look in the Swindon thread to see if it was discussed there.

 

as so it's not the principle then, it's the heightened level of publicity that's bothering people and the fact it's sunderland

 

just wanted to know

[themanupstairs]

genuine question; where was the outrage when he was appointed boss of swindon from the same posters on here, or does it only matter now he's hit the big time?

 

I genuinely don't even understand why this question has to be asked.  There'd be more outrage if Nick Griffin became a member of cabinet then if he became MP.  There'd be more outrage on here if a jihadi sympathiser was the CEO of Amazon than if he was the boss of a haulage firm in Kent.  There'd be more outrage on here if someone with extreme views took over North Tyneside council than if they took over somewhere in London or France.  Proximity and the high-profile or otherwise nature of the position, it's no real mystery.  We've had a thread on the mackems sicne the board was opened, go have a look in the Swindon thread to see if it was discussed there.

 

as so it's not the principle then, it's the heightened level of publicity that's bothering people and the fact it's sunderland

 

just wanted to know

 

Spot on.

[BlueStar]

So we're concerned about the free-speech loving tabloid journalists now?

 

These s*** stirring t***s are a massive problem, and very very few of them are a credit to their profession.

 

But you can't criticise them for that!  It's journalism, not politics.  What do their views and actions have to do with anything?  If you express your opinion on their behaviour you're basically oppressing them, stop it.

 

How is journalism and politics not directly linked? The profession was created and continues to be used to influence public opinion! SAFC is a privately owned company and they can ban whoever they like from their press conferences. Once again, I don't deny that the club has brought this s*** storm on itself. Whether they intended to do that or not, they're now scrambling to try and deal with it. As long as they do that without breaking any laws, then so what?

 

Football influences public opinion!  It probably influences public opinion more than every leaflet put through every bloody door in the country!  The very fact that this debate is going on is evidence that it's not 'so what', people have a pretty non-controversial opinion that they don't want a fascist manager in the premier league and people are trying to imply they can't hold that opinion because it somehow infringes on the rights of others for reasons I can't quite pin down.  Paolo Di Canio has the right to be a fascist, other people have the right to believe he's a f***ing c*** for holding those views and they will continue to say so.

 

Not going to disagree with that at all. However, PL or L2, it shouldn't matter imo. He'll be in as much of a role model position to kids growing up in Sunderland as he was for kids growing up in Swindon.

 

But there's a lot of kids that follow the premier league and know the name and personality of every manager in it.  How many could name Swindon's current manager, and know what kind of person he is to be allowed to hold that position?

[Benwell Lad]

genuine question; where was the outrage when he was appointed boss of swindon from the same posters on here, or does it only matter now he's hit the big time?

 

Not sure there's been any "outrage" on here. Lots of discussion about what is THE hot topic in sport right now maybe. More "outrage" amongst their own fans tbh.

Anyway social media discussion is not the real story, whether it's mackems saying they "wouldn't care if Hitler was their manager as long as he got results", or supporters of other clubs and journalists putting the boot in.

 

What is certain though, is that a little club in the north east of England who hardly anyone around the world had previously heard of will, rightly or wrongly, be associated with facism from now on.

It was a very ill judged appointment and makes you wonder if whoever is making the decisions down there has a clue about what they're doing.

[BlueStar]

genuine question; where was the outrage when he was appointed boss of swindon from the same posters on here, or does it only matter now he's hit the big time?

 

I genuinely don't even understand why this question has to be asked.  There'd be more outrage if Nick Griffin became a member of cabinet then if he became MP.  There'd be more outrage on here if a jihadi sympathiser was the CEO of Amazon than if he was the boss of a haulage firm in Kent.  There'd be more outrage on here if someone with extreme views took over North Tyneside council than if they took over somewhere in London or France.  Proximity and the high-profile or otherwise nature of the position, it's no real mystery.  We've had a thread on the mackems sicne the board was opened, go have a look in the Swindon thread to see if it was discussed there.

 

as so it's not the principle then, it's the heightened level of publicity that's bothering people and the fact it's sunderland

 

just wanted to know

 

No, it is exactly the principle.  Being a manager at the top level is an honour and makes you a much more public figure.  Giving someone a job at the very top of their profession validates their beliefs far more than if they're at a lower level.  But you knew that, unless you didn't read my post.