Guest VaVaVoom Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Both formations tend to yield some good football but only if you have the right player in the right position. We have 9 out of 11 in both formations and both formations pose a problem. 433 is the same as 451 if played with width and having only one striker would be a fail...Massive fail. Ba and Ben Arfa would be wasted. We would only get 75% out of them in the position. It also means playing Jonas in CM which i dont think would work. He has the engine for it but positionally he is weak in that position. If you dropped him and put Guthrie in there with Cabaye and Tiote that COULD work. Im of the opinion that 442 is the best formation for us now. IF we get a quality fullback in the summer then i would like to see us try a variation of this formation. A more narrow 4312 with Ben Arfa in the "hole" behind TWO strikers (Ba and Cisse) . Two creative midfielders (Cabaye and Guthrie) and a destroyer (Tiote) behind our attacking three would create and support some good football through the middle. This formation NEEDS two attacking and hard working fullbacks. Santon fits the bill but Simpson doesnt. Width would come from our fullbacks providing early balls from the byline. It would be nice to see but it would still mean dropping Jonas AND getting a quality fullback. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I think that's a good assessment TBH. To get the best out of our front 3 we would want them to play fairly narrow, which as I said earlier limits our attacking options and makes us easier to contain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sima Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Gosling could potentially excel in the third midfield slot alongside Tiote and Cabaye. As much as I like Guthrie, I do tend to think he's a bit too similar to Cabaye. We'd need someone capable of breaking beyond the forwards and adding another goal threat. Move HBA inside and bring in Obertan! In theory Tiote, Cabaye and Ben Arfa should be but Ben Arfa surrenders possession too easily. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maybe_next_year Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 jonas has impressed in the middle, don't see why a tiote,cabaye and jonas middle three wouldn't work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 we also have Marveaux to come back, by the way. as another option to Jonas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceMag Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 we also have Marveaux to come back, by the way. as another option to Jonas. Had totally forgot about him Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Generally it comes to, do you build formations around the players you have or the football you want to play? With the right players you can perfectly well play good football with any formation, and i think with how Ba plays, with the addition of Cisse we may see a 4-4-2 with Ba dropping back to midfield as he does but with less need to do it all himself. With HBA on wing likely to cut in and Jonas same on other I have no tactical issue with 4-4-2 as someone who wants footy played on the grass. One of the reasons we have been so lax in defence of late has been willingness to give away in possession, not in HBA way that pardew blames, i think generally he keeps the ball more than he loses it, most players would often pass back under pressure whereas he can keep move going forward. Pardew teams seem to hoof it when running out of ideas, that creates more goal chances for them, than us imo, especially with a depleted front line. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VaVaVoom Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Generally it comes to, do you build formations around the players you have or the football you want to play? With the right players you can perfectly well play good football with any formation, and i think with how Ba plays, with the addition of Cisse we may see a 4-4-2 with Ba dropping back to midfield as he does but with less need to do it all himself. With HBA on wing likely to cut in and Jonas same on other I have no tactical issue with 4-4-2 as someone who wants footy played on the grass. One of the reasons we have been so lax in defence of late has been willingness to give away in possession, not in HBA way that pardew blames, i think generally he keeps the ball more than he loses it, most players would often pass back under pressure whereas he can keep move going forward. Pardew teams seem to hoof it when running out of ideas, that creates more goal chances for them, than us imo, especially with a depleted front line. Aye. 442 with the squad we have now IS the only formation we should be playing. Like you say Ba will drop deep at times in essence changing to 4411. Cisse on the shoulder with Ben arfa and Jonas running the flanks and cutting in from either side. Would be good to see them swap round throughout games making it harder to mark them out the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roger Kint Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 jonas has impressed in the middle, don't see why a tiote,cabaye and jonas middle three wouldn't work. No he hasnt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlelunchbox Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 i really like the 4-3-3/ 4-5-1 formation big problem is pardew don't play the right players. its also a formation that leaves our fullbacks in extreme exposure, 4-3-3 formation leaves the fullbacks exposed if the cover from the midfield don't do their jobs. also it is a formation that requires versatility. When the opposition attack our fullback, in a 4-4-2 formation, the winger will obviously do the tracking back and help out the fullback. this still leaves the midfield with 3 men. in a 4-3-3/ the manager must determine whether its the midfield 3 or 2 of the wide players in attack that tracks back to cover. the problem comes, if the midfield are force to help cover the fullbacks thats leaves the midfield short with just 2 players. to counter that, one of the front three needs to drop into the midfield to make up the numbers. we need versatile players to make this work, and i dont think hba and best are the solution for the wide players. it worked ok for 45 mins vs fulham. in the second half our fullbacks and central midfield were taken apart. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sifu Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 jonas has impressed in the middle, don't see why a tiote,cabaye and jonas middle three wouldn't work. No he hasnt I think he has. From what I've seen, when Jonas has had a free role in the middle, he has been more of an influence on the game imo (Brighton game aside.....). He had a brief spell in such a role towards the end of the last season too, looked promising. I'd certainly play him there for an extended run. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VaVaVoom Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 jonas has impressed in the middle, don't see why a tiote,cabaye and jonas middle three wouldn't work. No he hasnt I think he has. From what I've seen, when Jonas has had a free role in the middle, he has been more of an influence on the game imo (Brighton game aside.....). He had a brief spell in such a role towards the end of the last season too, looked promising. I'd certainly play him there for an extended run. Like i said i think he has the engine for it but in that system you need to be positionall bang on. Giving him a free role at CM leaves massive gaps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Think we should switch to 4-3-1-2( that can switch into a 4-4-2/4-2-4) or 4-2-3-1 in the long term its what suits the players we have tbh...... In the 4-3-1-2 both Marveaux and Jonas atleast IMO can play in midfield as part of a trio with Cabaye and Tiote and because they are wingers can easily go outside wide to provide extra width should we need it. To fit these systems i would like to see a RB/LB, DM, CB and maybe a Winger so we dont have to play formations foreign to us because of injuries and suspensions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roger Kint Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 jonas has impressed in the middle, don't see why a tiote,cabaye and jonas middle three wouldn't work. No he hasnt I think he has. From what I've seen, when Jonas has had a free role in the middle, he has been more of an influence on the game imo (Brighton game aside.....). He had a brief spell in such a role towards the end of the last season too, looked promising. I'd certainly play him there for an extended run. He just wanders round aimlessly for the most part. Causes the team to be disjointed and off balance and removes his best attribute(running with the ball) Seriously dont see why people think its a good thing to play him somewhere that by and large lessens his impact on the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I think he's shown promise. Put it this way, I'd love to see the line-up that played Fulham off the park first half only with Ba and Cissé in for Best and Ameobi. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VaVaVoom Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I think he's shown promise. Put it this way, I'd love to see the line-up that played Fulham off the park first half only with Ba and Cissé in for Best and Ameobi. Aye....it showed that it CAN work and with our key men back it may well be worth another go. Mentality has to be sustained though, and the work ethic from the 1st half. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest je85 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Front 3 rotation=good Shola right wing when counter attacking =bad Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 ok fuck this Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
henke Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 It can work, and eventually with the correct personnel it probably would. But it ain't working at the minute. I could see why we'd persevere with it while at 0-0 on saturday, because brighton didn't pose much of a threat. But tonight, with 3 points to defend, it's time to change. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 It will work and it'll be good, but... Best - Ba Shola - Cisse RTaylor - Cabaye Guthrie - Tiote Williamson - Taylor ... the results will be limited. Don't know why we aren't 4-4-2 tonight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob 1988 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 What formation has Alan Pardew used the most this season 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 does anyone no ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shak Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 I think he's shown promise. Put it this way, I'd love to see the line-up that played Fulham off the park first half only with Ba and Cissé in for Best and Ameobi. Didn't get to see the game yesterday but is this pretty much what we went with, in terms of midfield and attack at least? Was Jonas the most advanced of the midfield trio? Had doubts that he would be a good fit in the middle in the long term but just looking at the highlights he looked heavily involved and picked out some quality passes playing central. How did the front three line up? Ben Arfa in the hole or was he out wide mostly? Tiote in for Guthrie and a couple of new defenders and this could be looking very tasty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Jonas wasn't the most advanced all the time, Cabaye got forward a lot as well. HBA was out wide mostly but when we counterattacked he found himself all over the place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 What about 3-5-2 Krul Taylor - Colo - NW CB Santon Tiote Cabaye Jonas Barfa Ba Cisse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Jonas looked pretty withdrawn most of the time with Cabaye the furthest forward, at least one of them stayed back when we broke forward though depending on who had possession and where, which is exactly as it should be. The fluid movement we've been asking for. The front 3 was Ben Arfa right and Ba left of Cisse, Ba in particular worked his bollocks off for the team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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