Alan Pardew

[TheGuv]

It makes me laugh now when people applaud us getting a corner.

 

WE AREN'T GOING TO SCORE FROM ONE

[Mick]

It makes me laugh now when people applaud us getting a corner.

 

WE AREN'T GOING TO SCORE FROM ONE

 

I still do it, I have no idea why.

[Beren]

It makes me laugh now when people applaud us getting a corner.

 

WE AREN'T GOING TO SCORE FROM ONE

 

Hm. Feels like the end of the move, doesn't it?

 

The SJP faithful used to get so excited about corners. Lolo and Nobby, where art thou?

 

[also good headerererers]

[TheGuv]

It makes me laugh now when people applaud us getting a corner.

 

WE AREN'T GOING TO SCORE FROM ONE

 

Hm. Feels like the end of the move, doesn't it?

 

The SJP faithful used to get so excited about corners. Lolo and Nobby, where art thou?

 

[also good headerererers]

 

[Guest firetotheworks]

His spin is starting to wear very thin.

 

Hey, Im a poet and I didn't realise it.

[Sifu]

Tbf, the corners looked better than usual today.

[Guest neesy111]

Pardew is a politician.  Talks utter shite to keep his party (club) happy while convincing who he's speaking to that things will get better.

[nuneaton]

im sorry, were all out of lifejackets, you'll have to take your chances

[littlelunchbox]

pardew's situation is,

 

it is not that he is not capable of getting a team to pass the ball and play football.

 

what it all comes down to is his preference.  he prefers his team to play direct football with 2 out and out strikers/forwards.

 

even when we start 4-5-1 / 4-3-3 he most often enough just shoe-horn a striker out wide or on the wings.

 

Best, Shola , Cisse, Ba,  all had been put out there. even when he has a big enough list of players other than HBA to take the other wide role.  having two forwards allows him to revert straight back to 4-4-2 without the need of wasting a sub.

 

it's how he sees fit to tackle the premiership.  rightly or wrongly that is what he prefers until/if he changes.

[TRon]

The one thing that concerns me is Pardew certainly talks a good game. Talks about how he is a student of the game and I do believe he is very methodical in his approach. How he's spent time when he was sacked from Southampton learning things abroad and how he wants us to play a more possession based game. Yet apart from the 4-3-3 towards the end of last season I'm yet to really see any signs that he seems to know how to put these things into practice.

 

Also the fact in the summer we tried to sign both Carroll and De Jong suggests 4-4-2 is his preferred formation with that option of playing direct. Wish we'd have signed Mirallas in the summer as then we really could have played 4-3-3 and Ba or Cisse would have had to fight it out as the main man at the top of that.

 

At the moment Ba seems to be a better player than Cisse in a formation with limited service, but I still think Cisse is a better striker than him. Pardew just needs to be brave and make a decision on what he wants to do, as all of this chopping and changing with the formation at the moment is not good for the players as we don't really have any identity as a team.

 

We're still far too reliant on individuals gaining the results for us rather than team performances which is where a team like Everton are far better than us. They do have some outstanding individuals but on paper we have a better team than them, but Moyes is a better manager than Pardew and has Everton playing as a team and a unit whereas Pardew doesn't seem to know how to do that for us at the moment.

 

Top post. I don't like to say it but Pardew could do with some of Fergie's convictions in how the game should be played. Have you ever seen a Man U side resort to long balls? The problem with Pardew is that he really doesn't trust himself or the team to play the short passing game, and as soon as there's a setback he reverts to his natural instinct, which is defend deep and whack the ball long to a big striker or two.

[Ketsbaia]

Sometimes I think we finished 5th despite Pardew - our collection of players is certainly good enough for 5th. He is good at talking to the media and is very convincing but he makes many mistakes, often persisting with the same ones. How many times will he go 4-4-2 when we're much more threatening with 4-3-3? It encourages a playing style that doesn't suit our players, even if it did work once or twice. And why are we persisting with those set pieces?

 

There's a good team spirit around the club which I'm sure he's responsible for, but that just speaks for his man management skills and not the tactical nous needed to take us into the Champions League. Also, his constant defending of Mike Ashley really grates on me.

[Guest BooBoo]

Harsh, Pardew did fantastically well last year with a small squad and got impressive performances from some average players.

[littlelunchbox]

Harsh, Pardew did fantastically well last year with a small squad and got impressive performances from some average players.

 

true but i think some teams have caught on to our tactics.

[Tiresias]

I think he's not brilliant tactically definately (not as bad as some suggest either) but last season he was getting great performances out of our players, this seems to have stagnated now. He needs to turn this around asap.

[TherealnorthernTOON]

Think we played some good stuff at times today, we were just not good enough on defensive corners and they had a wonderstrike/cross going into the back of the net. The fact we lacked our central pairing and keeper I kind of feared that from the start of the game. We gave our forwards a few chances that didn't come off, but seemed to lack something in the final third. HBA didn't really have a great game wich earlier has defined our performances. Once we went 4-3-3 we started playing abit better but became really stationary at times.

 

I really think the team on a whole suffers because Pardew can't make up his mind wether we are going to play a 4-3-3 or a 4-4-2. Our defensive looks as good in both formations as far as I am concerned but we seem to be able to play it better in a 4-3-3 because of that extra man in the centre.

[Tiresias]

Think we played some good stuff at times today, we were just not good enough on defensive corners and they had a wonderstrike/cross going into the back of the net. The fact we lacked our central pairing and keeper I kind of feared that from the start of the game. We gave our forwards a few chances that didn't come off, but seemed to lack something in the final third. HBA didn't really have a great game wich earlier has defined our performances. Once we went 4-3-3 we started playing abit better but became really stationary at times.

 

I really think the team on a whole suffers because Pardew can't make up his mind wether we are going to play a 4-3-3 or a 4-4-2. Our defensive looks as good in both formations as far as I am concerned but we seem to be able to play it better in a 4-3-3 because of that extra man in the centre.

 

I think the trouble is while we played alright for most the game they were already 2-0 up and didn't really need to try too hard. It's not quite representative and with only a very few chances it's hard to draw any positives imo. The start was pretty unforgivable tbh and we should never come out so disorganised at home.

[Away Toon]

I think today just showed what a lot of us have been thinking, and that is Pardew is not utilising our players to the best of their ability or picking them in their best positions, or apparently using the training ground to either defend better or keep possession of the ball.. He insists on playing 442 and yet there is no sign that Ba and Cisse can play together, we don't have any wingers, and Cabaye and Tiote constantly get outnumbered and then overran in midfield.

 

It's time Pardew grew some balls and ditched the 442, and started making some difficult decisions. Irrespective of injuries, Perch is not a premier league Centre-Back, Ferguson is not a Left Back, Anita is not ready to play as a defensive midfielder.

 

I would go for a 433

 

Krul, Anita, Taylor, Colo, Santon, Tiote, Cabaye, Jonas, Ben Arfa, Ba, Sammi Ameobi.

 

Simpson for cover at RB, Perch as a Defensive Midfielder, Shola and Cisse if Ba is not working, Ferguson to play left wing if we need to change the system, Williamson if we really have to etc.

 

[Dave]

Say what you like about his partnership with Ba, but dropping Cisse for Sammy Ameobi would be sheer lunacy.

[Mick]

I think today just showed what a lot of us have been thinking, and that is Pardew is not utilising our players to the best of their ability or picking them in their best positions, or apparently using the training ground to either defend better or keep possession of the ball.. He insists on playing 442 and yet there is no sign that Ba and Cisse can play together, we don't have any wingers, and Cabaye and Tiote constantly get outnumbered and then overran in midfield.

 

It's time Pardew grew some balls and ditched the 442, and started making some difficult decisions. Irrespective of injuries, Perch is not a premier league Centre-Back, Ferguson is not a Left Back, Anita is not ready to play as a defensive midfielder.

 

I would go for a 433

 

Krul, Anita, Taylor, Colo, Santon, Tiote, Cabaye, Jonas, Ben Arfa, Ba, Sammi Ameobi.

 

Simpson for cover at RB, Perch as a Defensive Midfielder, Shola and Cisse if Ba is not working, Ferguson to play left wing if we need to change the system, Williamson if we really have to etc.

 

 

  Give over.

[Guest BooBoo]

I was with you until you mentioned Sammy Ameobi.

[Away Toon]

Well maybe Sammy can play on the left in a 433 Cisse certainly can't and Ba sulks when he's asked too. Maybe Ferguson can, maybe Marveaux, but no more of this 442 shit with Ba and Cisse getting in each others way, and the midfield overran.

[Guest BooBoo]

Lets not have Sammy anywhere near the first XI.

 

Thanks.

[Away Toon]

Sammy's there by default because the others we've tried wide left have been generally terrible when they have played, Obertan, Marveaux, and Ba. Admittedly we don't have many options but that's what happens when you don't invest and strengthen. Could try Amalfitano though it looks like Pardew doesn't rate him.

[ohmelads]

I think he needs to accept that Ba and Cisse given a central role will not work the channels, and that Ben Arfa and Gutierrez will not hit the byline and put first time crosses in. So a flat 4-4-2 isn't going to work with these players, he's tried it several times this season and repeatedly had to switch it mid-game to save us a result. Spurs and Villa being two prime examples of this, there was an immediate turnaround in both games when he switched to the 4-3-3. Today he did it again but the game was gone before he made the change.

 

Dropping Ben Arfa to midfield takes your most dangerous and creative player away from the area where he's effective. We need him playing between the lines, between midfield and defence. In that area he pulls defenders all over the place and that's often how Cisse and Ba can escape their markers.

 

I like Pardew and think some of the criticism here is very harsh. I have my doubts that Pardew can ever get us playing fancy one touch football but he showed last season he can get us results. Unlike previous managers he is sure of his best XI and is on the same page as the fans on what our best XI is. What concerns me is his persistence with a 4-4-2 and abandoning the system which took us on an excellent run last season. I'm sure Pardew has his thinking behind the 4-4-2 but whatever he's trying it hasn't worked. We have the mackems up next, it has a make or break feel to it in terms of how our season pans out.

[Chris_R]

I think he needs to accept that Ba and Cisse given a central role will not work the channels, and that Ben Arfa and Gutierrez will not hit the byline and put first time crosses in. So a flat 4-4-2 isn't going to work with these players, he's tried it several times this season and repeatedly had to switch it mid-game to save us a result. Spurs and Villa being two prime examples of this, there was an immediate turnaround in both games when he switched to the 4-3-3. Today he did it again but the game was gone before he made the change.

 

Jonas and Ben Arfa won't hit the byline because Jonas is right footed and gets played left wing whilst Ben Arfa is left footed but is constantly asked to play wide right.

 

Players playing on the "wrong" side can and does work in a 4-3-3 because they're really playing as supporting forwards rather than conventional wingers, but it simply does not work in a 4-4-2 where you're relying on service to 2 out-and-out strikers.

 

I have no problem at all in Pardew wanting or prefering to play 4-4-2, as it can be a good and exciting formation to watch. Keegan played 4-4-2, as did SBR, and let's face it we did OK then and had a bloody good time in the process. However both of them ensured that crosses came in from men getting to the byline or at least being able to whip in an away-swinging cross nice and early - Ginola and Gillespie, Robert and Solano.

 

Every team that makes a success of 4-4-2 has players that do this, irrespective of the level they play at. We simply cannot do that with Jonas wide left and Hatem wide right, you lose too much.

 

We also lack fullbacks who can overlap and get crosses in. I remember under Keegan seeing Beresford and Venison bombing forward past their wingman repeatedly, and it undoes teams. Santon's a great player, but he cannot get past the winger to support attacks and cross from the line as again he's right-footed and playing on the left. Simpson is playing on his natural side, but he's terrified of a football and can do nothing in posession apart from panic and play the ball back to Mike Williamson every single time he gets it. Watch him next match, if he wasn't playing for us it'd be fucking comical how often that's what he does.

 

We've got some great players. Cabaye, Coloccini, Krul, HBA, Santon, Ba and Cisse. Tiote I don't rate as highly as many on here and haven't since day one but he's decent enough, as is Steven Taylor. However, we need a few new faces if we're going to make either 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 work and really be a good team.

 

------------------Krul

 

Santon Coloccini Taylor NEWPLAYER

 

NEWPLAYER Cabaye Tiote HBA

 

------------Cisse Ba

 

OR

 

------------------Krul

 

Santon Coloccini Taylor NEWPLAYER

 

-----------------Tiote

----------Cabaye NEWPLAYER

 

HBA-----------------------NEWPLAYER

-----------Cisse OR Ba

 

In the meantime, we have to make do. Either go 4-4-2 with people on the correct side of the pitch, or go 4-3-3 with Ba on the left. Incidentally, I don't think HBA is a left winger (Where I have him in the 4-4-2) but he's the kind of player that's good enough to play just about anywhere and would certainly be dangerous there, especially if he had a good fullback supporting him and we had a threat on the other wing as well. And if we ARE going 4-4-2 as Pardew seems to prefer, HBA simply has to play and I'm not having him on the right wing for reasons already stated.

 

In the meantime the person on the right would have to be Jonas, and I know that people may say they've seen him play once on the right 4 years ago and he wasn't effective, but since then let's face it, he's had over a hundred games on the left wing and been almost completely unproductive. He's not been given much of a chance on the right beyond the odd game here or there, but he's had a multitude of chances on the left and his assists record speaks for itself.

 

If we go 4-3-3, Ba can drop left for now and Jonas in midfield. It seems to work, but obviously Ba doesn't like playing there and Pardew seems to want to shift to 2 up top.

 

That's the situation as I see it. I have no problem with either 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, but if we are going 4-4-2 we simply must have the correct players on their natural sides. It's fucking batshit crazy to do otherwise.