Zero Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I think the key issue is his confidence towards our defenders --- particularly Williamson. It is not a coincidence that we 99% play long balls when Williamson is there because he is a fucking liability when facing counter attack. Last season we actually gained a lot of points when we play a very compact 442 during the first half, and even if we started to use 433, our first choice defenders and keeper were all available except Saylor. Pardew's magic is his work on our defense, and that he is actually lucky to have only Saylor as our long term absentee last season. In fact Pardew knows how shit our defense is this year, that's why he continues to go for a direct 442 to protect the defense line. This is still his top priority. Only if we are losing and force to get a goal back, we would try something else. I think he has to accept the fact that the defense line is hopeless and the only way we can win is to score more than the opponents, rather than grinding them out. Ultimately I lay the blame on the transfer last summer. We should definitely sign a more centre back and one more left back. Pardew's hand is tied --- and probably Ashley know this and that's why giving out a 8 years contract. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themanupstairs Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 This international break is probably going to be one of the most pivotal points in Pardew's reign as manager of this club. He has got to dig deep and make a very important decision. He has to have a long hard look at our squad and realize that this decision can only be to play 433, in principle, in order to get the best out of what he has at his disposal. He has 8 years on his contract now, so there is no rush. He has "8 years" to put in place a footballing "system" (shudder at the risk of sounding RAWK-like) that is played from the senior team down to the academy. He knows well that under Ashley we won't be making big signings all the time to remedy gaps in the squad. He knows that we will need to promote from within. Therefore the younger players who get a chance in the first team should be well drilled and educated on how the first team plays. Signing that long term contract has made it a long term project. For me he shouldn't worry about getting top 6 immediately. I would take 11th or 12th if it means we play relentless attacking football, home and away. It's the only way to play football imo, and we have the players to do it. Also, playing this way gives us a better chance of winning knock-out cup ties, and consequently a better chance of reaching a cup final, or winning it even. Enough shoe-horning, enough by-passing the midfield and asking them to fight for the second ball. Ben Arfa has to be given the licence to roam, and remedying our full back situation has to become the only priority in January. Pardew has to prove that winning the manager of the year award last year wasn't a complete fluke. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufc4eva Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 He needs to play 4-3-3 for the good of the team, more fluid by far. Jonas cannot play left wing anymore he looks more suited to running through centre or left back these days and Cabaye plays much better with the freedom to roam. We need to sacrifice one of Cisse or Ba if Ba won't play on the left. No way should Cisse be playing on right midfield ffs not good enough. Same as shola, what's the point. Think Pardew needs to start next game with Ben Arfa/Ba/Obertan in front 3 (Yes I did just say that ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I hope he does another Radio Newcastle phone-in soon. I want to ask about systems and that stupid corner routine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 This international break is probably going to be one of the most pivotal points in Pardew's reign as manager of this club. He has got to dig deep and make a very important decision. He has to have a long hard look at our squad and realize that this decision can only be to play 433, in principle, in order to get the best out of what he has at his disposal. He has 8 years on his contract now, so there is no rush. He has "8 years" to put in place a footballing "system" (shudder at the risk of sounding RAWK-like) that is played from the senior team down to the academy. He knows well that under Ashley we won't be making big signings all the time to remedy gaps in the squad. He knows that we will need to promote from within. Therefore the younger players who get a chance in the first team should be well drilled and educated on how the first team plays. Signing that long term contract has made it a long term project. For me he shouldn't worry about getting top 6 immediately. I would take 11th or 12th if it means we play relentless attacking football, home and away. It's the only way to play football imo, and we have the players to do it. Also, playing this way gives us a better chance of winning knock-out cup ties, and consequently a better chance of reaching a cup final, or winning it even. Enough shoe-horning, enough by-passing the midfield and asking them to fight for the second ball. Ben Arfa has to be given the licence to roam, and remedying our full back situation has to become the only priority in January. Pardew has to prove that winning the manager of the year award last year wasn't a complete fluke. Whilst I agree with some of what you say, 'relentless attacking football both home and away' clearly isn't the only way to play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Think the eight year contract has brought with it a wierd pressure that he could have done without. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Think he's going to persist with 4-4-2 until it's been proven to not work with our best XI available unfortunately. Completely nonsensical to abandon a system that worked so well for us last year, I just don't understand it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Think he's going to persist with 4-4-2 until it's been proven to not work with our best XI available unfortunately. Completely nonsensical to abandon a system that worked so well for us last year, I just don't understand it. I think we can all see that it's been proven not to work. That's what worries me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 That was the 2nd time this season we've used it with our first choice midfield in the prem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Think he's going to persist with 4-4-2 until it's been proven to not work with our best XI available unfortunately. Completely nonsensical to abandon a system that worked so well for us last year, I just don't understand it. I think we can all see that it's been proven not to work. That's what worries me. It was proven last season that it's not the best way to go. Why didn't he spend the summer getting the players used to a fluid 4-3-3 type formation? Maybe he did I don't know, but if so why does he keep lining up with the unbalanced formations we have seen? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Think he's going to persist with 4-4-2 until it's been proven to not work with our best XI available unfortunately. Completely nonsensical to abandon a system that worked so well for us last year, I just don't understand it. I think we can all see that it's been proven not to work. That's what worries me. He knows the option's available and that is has its uses, we saw that yesterday but he just seems to flat out refuse to start with it for some reason. What makes it worse is that the whole set up of it is so rigid, archaic and unbalanced, from the players selected, to the style we choose to play and so on. We've gone from being on fire at the end of last season to looking worse than the likes of Norwich and Aston Villa in a footballing sense, how much longer can it go on? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Think he's going to persist with 4-4-2 until it's been proven to not work with our best XI available unfortunately. Completely nonsensical to abandon a system that worked so well for us last year, I just don't understand it. I think we can all see that it's been proven not to work. That's what worries me. He knows the option's available and that is has its uses, we saw that yesterday but he just seems to flat out refuse to start with it for some reason. What makes it worse is that the whole set up of it is so rigid, archaic and unbalanced, from the players selected, to the style we choose to play and so on. We've gone from being on fire at the end of last season to looking worse than the likes of Norwich and Aston Villa in a footballing sense, how much longer can it go on? Probably not much longer. In some ways this season isn't that much different to the start of last season, we were playing badly and winning then, now we're playing badly and drawing/losing. He got the team performing eventually and he'll do it again. I think the major factor is Ba not wanting to play anywhere but in the middle, only reinforced yesterday by Shola coming on and playing on the right (WTF?). Pardew needs to sort that situation out before we can move forwards imo, whether its talking to Ba or just moving him on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Its definately Ba like. We've obviously tried to accommodate both him & Cisse by using both upfront with Barfa on the right. With Cabaye covering for Tiote and being out himself, its not had much chance to click. The odd thing is Cisse did score goals last season as a pair at times, Ba is scoring goals this season as a pair. Just seems like when one starts a run of scoring goals, the other cant handle it. They've both missed penalties & clear chances in that time when the others form started flying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 We've ended up with two out and out finishers with no much else to their game. This is the crux of Pards problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 We don't need to accommodate Cisse, he'll play wherever the team needs him too. I take your point about the formation not having much of a chance to click, but Pardew needs to factor the squad make up into his formation choice, i.e. if we've mostly got players that fit a 4-3-3 then play it, because if the 4-4-2 falls apart as soon as you get a couple of injuries then it can't be relied on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I don't think it's Ba, I think Pards has shown with Ben Arfa that he's not afraid to do what's best for the team in terms of dropping or playing players out of position. I agree with Otter's post that since the Wigan game, AP's been afraid of taking a beating, I think that game and the Fulham one reinforced in his head that we're too vulnerable defensively like that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Give them service they'll score goals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 We've ended up with two out and out finishers with no much else to their game. This is the crux of Pards problem. Ba can play well out wide, we've seen it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 We've ended up with two out and out finishers with no much else to their game. This is the crux of Pards problem. Ba can play well out wide, we've seen it. Remember last season when Ba and Cisse were swapping from playing the left-side to the striker, both were doing good work on the left. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Ba can do it but he hates being there, so we get a kind of stunted version of him. But agree he can if he is forced to play there. I remember him looking up and picking out advancing midfielders in particular Hatem...Something has changed mentally with him there is no getting away from it. Sulky at times. He's in a good scoring streak so now it's almost impossible to instruct him to go back there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Ba and Cisse. It's like Highlander, only with Senegalese strikers instead of sword-wielding immortals. There can be only one! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 We've ended up with two out and out finishers with no much else to their game. This is the crux of Pards problem. It's only a problem if it's not managed properly. Most teams have at least two quality strikers, it doesn't mean they have to start together every game. Personally I think they are perfectly capable of playing together provided we get the football right in the other parts of the pitch. Full backs overlapping and midfielders passing and moving rather than standing in defensive formations and playing long balls to the forwards is as big a problem. No striker in the world is going to look good playing in that formation unless he's in an Allardyce team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 We've ended up with two out and out finishers with no much else to their game. This is the crux of Pards problem. It's only a problem if it's not managed properly. Most teams have at least two quality strikers, it doesn't mean they have to start together every game. Personally I think they are perfectly capable of playing together provided we get the football right in the other parts of the pitch. Full backs overlapping and midfielders passing and moving rather than standing in defensive formations and playing long balls to the forwards is as big a problem. No striker in the world is going to look good playing in that formation unless he's in an Allardyce team. So, all we've go to do is buy and LW, RW and LB who can cross and we can make it work!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 We've ended up with two out and out finishers with no much else to their game. This is the crux of Pards problem. It's only a problem if it's not managed properly. Most teams have at least two quality strikers, it doesn't mean they have to start together every game. Personally I think they are perfectly capable of playing together provided we get the football right in the other parts of the pitch. Full backs overlapping and midfielders passing and moving rather than standing in defensive formations and playing long balls to the forwards is as big a problem. No striker in the world is going to look good playing in that formation unless he's in an Allardyce team. So, all we've go to do is buy and LW, RW and LB who can cross and we can make it work!!!! Or we could look at the players we've got and figure out a formation which will suit them. As we saw in the second half of last season, they can play good football effectively given the right set up. I realise people will want to point at the lack of investment in the squad, but I don't think we can hide behind that. Pardew is picking poor formations and playing long ball football. Was last week's awful performance against Reading because our players weren't better than theirs? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Or we could look at the players we've got and figure out a formation which will suit them. As we saw in the second half of last season, they can play good football effectively given the right set up. I realise people will want to point at the lack of investment in the squad, but I don't think we can hide behind that. Pardew is picking poor formations and playing long ball football. Was last week's awful performance against Reading because our players weren't better than theirs? all very, very accurate if you ask me pardew is blessed with some amazing talent at his disposal, you could argue we have some of the most talented players outside the usual suspects (chels, manyoo, arse, citeh & spurs) but i for one agree with the above 100% we need to focus on what's not being done with the players we have rather than what's not being done with players we never signed, imo not enough pardew is starting to look like a competent manager with some very desirable attributes, such as PR with the press and certainly his management of players but how long are we going to allow the excuse that he needs time to implement a better style of football? it's not like he's got the job of turning a team of cloggers into barcelona, he's just got to get the very gifted technical footballers we have playing the football they're used to and capable of by playing a system that allows them to thrive Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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