Alan Pardew

[Guest]

He was within a whisker of taking a team who had a strike force of Ameobi, Lovenkrands, Best, Ranger & Kuqi to a top 10 finish (I know Hughton started the good work that season but he had Carroll), and then got us top 6 in his first full season.

 

He's been crap this season, I just think he deserves a bit of a chance to put it right.

[Rebellious]

If we can only avoid defeat when we have less than two first team injuries, that's a fairly sure fire sign that we will continue to struggle.

 

That simply doesn't happen very often in the modern game. If your confidence that we should win every game apart from Man City was based on us having zero injuries, I can only assume you live on a cloud somewhere, or up a magic beanstalk.

 

Again, that's twice you've gone putting words into my mouth...I've already corrected you once. I said that we could go on a good run towards the end of the season and that I viewed all of the games (with the exception of Citeh) as winnable games; given the state of the squad after the Chelsea game.

 

We don't just have two first team injuries....we've actually had:

 

L vs Spurs: Ben Arfa, RTaylor, Vuckic, Gouffran*

W vs Southampton: Krul, Ben Arfa, RTaylor, Vuckic, Harper (Tiote ill prior to the game)

L vs Swansea: Krul, Colocinni, Ben Arfa, RTaylor, Vuckic, Harper (Cisse and Cabaye were both ill prior to the game)

W vs Stoke: Krul, Colocinni, Ben Arfa, RTaylor, Vuckic, Ameobi

L vs Wigan: Krul, Colocinni, Cabaye, Debuchy*, Haidaira*, Ben Arfa, RTaylor, Vuckic

L vs Man City: Krul, Colocinni, Debuchy, Santon, Tiote, Haidaira, Ben Arfa, RTaylor, Vuckic

 

Injuries are by no means the sole reason for the poor results this season, but they go someway towards putting the season into context and explaining how the same guy (with arguably an improved squad on paper) has gone from a Champions League-chasing side to a 'squeaky bum' side.

 

If we get a Second actual striker this summer and maybe a third. Combine that with Cisse not taking until April to actually find some form and few a others finding any at all. Add to that no Europe, ie more  than 1 day for coaching and tactics for each match. If this happens and we are still shit and lower than say 12th then he has to go. At the moment he has far too many excuses. He isn`t good enough to work through a crisis but we all knew that when he was appointed, at the same time he has done far better even now than we all expected.

[Cronky]

I've not come across any rumours about the players being unhappy with Pardew or the training, and we're still able to attract players. From the point of view of the future, we can take encouragement from that.

 

If I was to point to one significant error that he made this season, it was not sorting out the Ba-Cisse problem before the season started. We wasted a lot of time over that.

[Mick]

You're the one who stated that any other owner would have sacked his manager for being "down at the bottom with us" - the Moyes example is one that contradicts your claim (and has been mentioned recently in the thread).

 

I don't think anyone has argued that we're playing beautiful football this season. Not sure why you're throwing that straw man about.

 

Some of us see a benefit for the club in adopting a culture of giving managers 3+ seasons before deciding if they're going to get a longer spell. It may well turn out that Pardew is as limited as many on here are claiming and that last season was a freak set of results; however, by moving away from the knee-jerk culture of the past decade surely makes us a more attractive position for a bold, up and coming manager who knows he'll need a couple of seasons to get the playing squad playing exactly how he likes it?

 

Chopping and changing didn't do us any favours under Shepherd; it certainly didn't do us any favours under Ashley (2009), so why keep pushing this strategy now?

 

Of course, we wouldn't need to change managers if the people in charge appointed the 'right one' first time around...but then, if it was that easy, every team would be doing it.

 

Chopping and changing wasn't really the problem under Shepherd, other than sacking Bobby Robson, he got the others right.  What Shepherd was shit as was appointing the right manager and that's basically why he had to sack them.  As far as I'm concerned he got one sacking wrong, on the other side of that he got all but one, possibly two at a stretch, of his appointments wrong.

 

Dalglish was rightly sacked and he's since shown that he was finished before we got him with his sacking at Liverpool and Celtic where he was D of F and manager for a time when they sacked the equally hopeless John Barnes.

 

The appointment of Souness was mind boggling and replacing him with Roeder was the work of a lazy bastard taking an easy option.  Allardyce was probably a good appointment to work under the conditions that were present after Souness had been bailed out and allowed to spend £50 million on mainly shit value players.

 

Comparing our position to Everton is crazy, they didn’t have a pot to piss in when they appointed Moyes and they were almost certainly going down when they appointed Moyes who was doing really well as Preston.  His record as a manager was one of success as he’d taken over a struggling Preston and had improved them year after year.  Moyes hadn’t almost relegated West Ham, he hadn’t relegated Charlton and he hadn’t been sacked by third division Southampton who then flourished after binning him.  When Moyes finished 1 place above relegation at Everton it was his first spell in his managerial career where he’d taken a club backwards so for him it was a blip, not the norm.

 

Him spending £8.5 million in first full season was chicken feed at the time, during that same period we spent £23 million on Viana, Bramble, Woodgate and Ambrose so it’s not comparing like for like.  We were signing up and coming players while Moyes was forced to sign players from Netto because of financial restraints.  They were struggling on and off the pitch and Kenwright had just come into the club because of the state they were in financially.

[mrmojorisin75]

now mick, let's not let reality get in the way of a good supporting argument for pardiola

[Mick]

He was within a whisker of taking a team who had a strike force of Ameobi, Lovenkrands, Best, Ranger & Kuqi to a top 10 finish (I know Hughton started the good work that season but he had Carroll), and then got us top 6 in his first full season.

 

He's been crap this season, I just think he deserves a bit of a chance to put it right.

 

We look like we could be closer to relegation with a team that has included Krul, Debuchy, Mbiwa, Santon, Cabaye, Sissoko, Ben Arfa, Coloccini, Anita, Cisse, Goufran, Ba, Marveaux  and Tiote. 

[Ronaldo]

A few of which have looked like players not fit for this league this season. Others have barely played.

[Guest neesy111]

I think quite a few are really overrating out squad tbh.

[Mick]

A few of which have looked like players not fit for this league this season. Others have barely played.

 

So much for his managerial ability, is that supposed to make him look better?

[Mick]

I think quite a few are really overrating out squad tbh.

 

Yes, we're overrating our trophy winning international players.

[Dr Venkman]

I totally understand Stu's point btw, about creating an image of stability for the club. I just think having a manager that makes the team more than the sum of its parts and who can get results when things are against the club is where you go first and foremost, and everything else comes secondary to that. After over 2 years I personally think it's fair to say we haven't got that, and we need to find it.

 

I realise that last season he did really good things with Raylor and Perch for example, so it could be argued that he raises the level of individual players, but I don't think he raises the team performance at all, in fact I think he's counter productive in this area.

[taxfree]

I think quite a few are really overrating out squad tbh.

 

Yes, we're overrating our trophy winning international players.

 

[Ronaldo]

A few of which have looked like players not fit for this league this season. Others have barely played.

 

So much for his managerial ability, is that supposed to make him look better?

 

Generally players need to be on the pitch and able in order to make a contribution.

[Ronaldo]

I think quite a few are really overrating out squad tbh.

 

Yes, we're overrating our trophy winning international players.

 

 

Please. Nicky Butt was a trophy winning international.

[Guest neesy111]

I think quite a few are really overrating out squad tbh.

 

Yes, we're overrating our trophy winning international players.

 

 

Please. Nicky Butt was a trophy winning international.

 

So was Geremi and Alan Smith.

[taxfree]

I think quite a few are really overrating out squad tbh.

 

Yes, we're overrating our trophy winning international players.

 

 

Please. Nicky Butt was a trophy winning international.

 

Don't be daft, Ronaldo

[Ronaldo]

Who are our trophy winning internationals, anyway?

[Guest neesy111]

Who are our trophy winning internationals, anyway?

 

Cabaye

Debuchy

Tiote

Anita

Coloccini

Santon

 

It's a pathetic excuse for trying to justify a view point.

[Mick]

 

 

Generally players need to be on the pitch and able in order to make a contribution.

 

We usually have 11 players on the pitch at any given time.

[taxfree]

Who are our trophy winning internationals, anyway?

 

We've got plenty of international/class players. Highly rated, not just by us, but people looking from a neutral view. Wasn't especially on about the trophy winning stuff, but to suggest we're overrating our players - not having it, like.

[Ronaldo]

 

 

Generally players need to be on the pitch and able in order to make a contribution.

 

We usually have 11 players on the pitch at any given time.

 

And when James perch has played 3 times the amount of games that Sissoko has your list doesn't quite look as pertinent.

[Mick]

Who are our trophy winning internationals, anyway?

 

Cabaye, Debuchy, Ben Arfa, Santon and Tiote have all won trophies and are internationals.

[Mick]

 

 

And when James perch has played 3 times the amount of games that Sissoko has your list doesn't quite look as pertinent.

 

Aye, I forgot that we've been shit because we've been forced to play James Perch.

[Mick]

 

 

Cabaye

Debuchy

Tiote

Anita

Coloccini

Santon

 

It's a pathetic excuse for trying to justify a view point.

 

Of course it is. 

[Ronaldo]

Who are our trophy winning internationals, anyway?

 

We've got plenty of international/class players. Highly rated, not just by us, but people looking from a neutral view. Wasn't especially on about the trophy winning stuff, but to suggest we're overrating our players - not having it, like.

 

Just look at Mick's post, man. Some of those players only signed 8 league games ago - 4 of which we won. Ben Arfa's been missing for most of the season and players like Anita, Tiote and Colo have been poor by any team's standards. The squad's still a work in progress.