KaKa Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Our problem is that we don't attack. Cliche-arama but it really is the most important form of defence. If we can't keep the ball in the opposition's half, then it's going to be constant pressure at our end. Yesterday was the best example of it so far. You see all these managers wax lyrical about Alex Ferguson, but they seemingyl pay no real attention to what he actually does, or try to emulate him. This guy always plays two attacking full backs, two attacking widemen, has no defensive midfielder, regularly forces three strikers into his team, and still whips everyone. How about you try at least some of these ideas sometime? How about not being so gutless? How about not worrying about being tight defensively all the bloody time. Negative B.S. sick of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Our problem is everything really. Can't defend, can't attack, can't string two passes together. It's baffling. Yeah, even the old keep it tight at the back from last season has deserted us. Last clean sheet in the league was 2 months ago. All of last season, even at the team's very best, I never felt they were defensively sound or solid. We just seemed to manage to hang on most of the time imo. These clowns obsessed with being defensive all the time really annoy me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Our problem is that we don't attack. Cliche-arama but it really is the most important form of defence. If we can't keep the ball in the opposition's half, then it's going to be constant pressure at our end. Yesterday was the best example of it so far. You see all these managers wax lyrical about Alex Ferguson, but they seemingyl pay no real attention to what he actually does, or try to emulate him. This guy always plays two attacking full backs, two attacking widemen, has no defensive midfielder, regularly forces three strikers into his team, and still whips everyone. How about you try at least some of these ideas sometime? How about not being so gutless? How about not worrying about being tight defensively all the bloody time. Negative B.S. sick of it. To be fair, most other managers don't have the luxury of having the best players in the world in their squads. When you have limited players, it's easier to play limited football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Our problem is that we don't attack. Cliche-arama but it really is the most important form of defence. If we can't keep the ball in the opposition's half, then it's going to be constant pressure at our end. Yesterday was the best example of it so far. Kind of my point..... if we can't control football matches and being overrun in midfield how are we supposed to create chances to attack? It all stems from that, obviously more deep-rooted than all that but you get my point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Our problem is that we don't attack. Cliche-arama but it really is the most important form of defence. If we can't keep the ball in the opposition's half, then it's going to be constant pressure at our end. Yesterday was the best example of it so far. You see all these managers wax lyrical about Alex Ferguson, but they seemingyl pay no real attention to what he actually does, or try to emulate him. This guy always plays two attacking full backs, two attacking widemen, has no defensive midfielder, regularly forces three strikers into his team, and still whips everyone. How about you try at least some of these ideas sometime? How about not being so gutless? How about not worrying about being tight defensively all the bloody time. Negative B.S. sick of it. To be fair, most other managers don't have the luxury of having the best players in the world in their squads. When you have limited players, it's easier to play limited football. We don't have to go all out like Man U, but for goodness sake, can we take the training wheels off against Southampton please? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 It's quite clear we do no attacking training at all.. A lot of our players just hoof it because they don't know what to do once they get possession. For example we know Williamson has no footballing ability so why is there no midfielder offering to take the ball off him? We can't even do the basics of keeping the ball. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuy_O Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Its our lack of attacking verve that is putting more pressure on our defenders imo. They are under more pressure to keep a clean sheet and inevitably they cant. Of course being more organised is a platform, but we look toothless in attack, testing an awful keeper just twice isn't good enough. If its possible more focus on defensive shape will make us even more inept. Its hardly like we're going gung ho and leaving the defenders exposed either. Getting lost in both Pardew threads here, had to move this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Its not just a lack of verve. Its a complete lack of movement, pattern of play, set penises from hell, unbelievable poor first touches, a pair of strikers who cant hold a ball up, tbf balls fired at them from a million miles away. Our problems going forward are massive and wont be solved quickly, really worried me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Nah we're just not running fast enough and winning headers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 We've got players in our squad that teams we've been out played by would kill for. But the way we've got them perfoming you'd think we were from a couple of divisions down! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 We've got players in our squad that teams we've been out played by would kill for. But the way we've got them perfoming you'd think we were from a couple of divisions down! They won't have to kill for them before long. They'll all be begging to go and join them soone enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 We've got players in our squad that teams we've been out played by would kill for. But the way we've got them perfoming you'd think we were from a couple of divisions down! I would take a few of the players from the teams we've lost to as well TBF. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malandro Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 We've got players in our squad that teams we've been out played by would kill for. But the way we've got them perfoming you'd think we were from a couple of divisions down! They won't have to kill for them before long. They'll all be begging to go and join them soone enough. At which point MA demands twice what they are worth and we get stuck with players who don't want to be here, who you can be sure wont be trying very hard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlelunchbox Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 you think with the little crisis we are falling in, Pardew is still going to persist in starting Ba and Cisse up top??? because it will take a crisis for him to realize. before the game at southampton , every fucking one of us knew that, if Cisse is fit he's going to be upfront with Ba and it won't work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 He speaks of grinding out results but the two in CM and two strikers doesn't lend itself to that very well. We need to flood the midfield but he seems so reluctant to do that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 We need to control the midfield you see, that's paramount. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_69 Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 We need to stop worrying about what the fucking opposition are going to do and go out there to impose our own game on them. We've got the players to do it but our manager is a toilet. If you think like a bottom half team that's exactly what you'll become. Arseholes! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlelunchbox Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 He speaks of grinding out results but the two in CM and two strikers doesn't lend itself to that very well. We need to flood the midfield but he seems so reluctant to do that. its baffling that he's so tunnel vision in 4-4-2. the line-up vs southampton on paper was exactly a 'grinding-out-results' line-up, you got that flat back four and a flat four midfield infront to protect, two defensive midfielders protecting the two centrebacks, two industrial widemen in Jonas and Fergie protecting the fullbacks. yet.... we looked anything but solid. we were opened at will, thats disturbing considering there arent too many players in that line i would call shrinking violets or big time charlies. That tells you something that there is something fundamentally wrong in communication between the players and the manager/coaching team. at time the players didnt know what they were doing, or they were simply ignoring the instructions of the manager, thats how it looked to me, i believe the players were ignoring the instructions of the manager. watch the game and you will see the players disregarded the shape of what pardew likes to cement in his team, the 4-4-2, throughout the match you can see it looked like 2-6-2 when the players got faustrated and decided to abandon the rigid shape, fullbacks pushed forward and the wingers pushed in , we saw many times jonas and fergie running into the middle of the park simply because they went looking for the ball. thats another reason why i think fergie was subbed because he was not keeping the pardew turgid shape of staying outwide. to sum up what the most disturbing thing about the line-up, the flat two banks of fours, that was the most defensive line-up we put out for a long long time, and Pardew put that out against the team in southampton which had the worst defensive record in the whole league sitting in the relegation zone,. yep ,,, you could say at least he swallowed his pride and gave the opposition the respect , and then there's the complete lack of optimism, ambition, foresight to go forward with his own team. He practically set his team up to go there for a draw and ended up getting battered, the scoreline flattered him really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 We need to control the midfield you see, that's paramount. And that is exactly what he reckons wins games, he then proceeds to completely go against that with his formation and long ball tactics. The blokes a fucking idiot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_69 Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 We need to control the midfield you see, that's paramount. And that is exactly what he reckons wins games, he then proceeds to completely go against that with his formation and long ball tactics. The blokes a f***ing idiot. He is like Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 We need to control the midfield you see, that's paramount. And that is exactly what he reckons wins games, he then proceeds to completely go against that with his formation and long ball tactics. The blokes a fucking idiot. He's certainly contradicting himself in this instance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 The worrying thing for me is that Pardew has always put a lot of faith in the transitional phase of play and now seems to have built an entire pattern of play based on this. I say worrying because transitional play is just a concept, just one of thousands of elements to a game, one that Mourinho most notably helped bring to fame as a concept a few years back while Chelsea manager. Mourinho being somewhat of a hero to Pardew who has numerous books about him and his methods on his shelves along with books on Fergie, Clough et al. Transitional play is basically what happens or doesn't when the opposition has the ball and when you have the ball (or not). Mourinho believed his team or players could force the opposition into giving up the ball quite easily by pressing play high up and all over the park (basically cutting off all outlets and suffocating the opposition) and when his team won the ball back, they would "recycle" the ball quickly so as to take advantage of the opposition being out of their shape and off the ball. Kind of like a sophisticated modern counter attacking side. He used this to great effect but only because he had someone like Drogba who could hold onto the ball and bring others into it, Lampard who could bomb on from central and in Robben and Duff two very quick wide men capable of also coming infield, players who could turn one pass into a direct move towards goal. That and a sitter in Makalele to protect, to nick the ball and recycle it quickly, i.e. the transitional play player. Basically he had the right players to make that aspect of the game work to his advantage. Anyone whoever watched Chelsea under him though or who took an interest in his tactics would have known that was just one tactic or element to their game. Off the ball we try to press play and high up, while on the ball we try to recycle it quickly and mainly forwards. This is transitional play or supposedly. Only we are f***ing things up and don't really have the players to adopt this element of the game to any great effect. We would be better off pressing and winning the ball back as we do try and then keeping the ball a bit and looking to work the opposition through the middle or wide with Jonas or Ben Arfa, allowing Cabaye for example to hover just outside the box for an option infield to strike on goal or even get into the box. The front two in Cisse and Ba do not work however, in that kind of play. Not as a two anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 We need to control the midfield you see, that's paramount. And that is exactly what he reckons wins games, he then proceeds to completely go against that with his formation and long ball tactics. The blokes a fucking idiot. He's certainly contradicting himself in this instance. Aye, on lots of things. Which is why i'm worried, if he believes what he says and thinks it is being applied on the pitch, he is mental in the head. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Fuck loard im not looking forward to stoke. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 To be fair, even when we keep the ball down I've never seen us 'control' a game under Pardew. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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