cp40 Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Wullie- I dont think he is really talking to the fans in his interviews, I also think the frustration will be hurting him almost as much as us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
binnsy Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 He would have the sympathy of the support in terms of resources if it wasn't for telling us every five minutes how grateful we should be to Mike and what a successful window we had. He can't have it both ways. That said, these last few performances have nothing to do with resources, as Dave has pointed out, we are still putting out a team more than capable of not getting utterly battered off Southampton. i tend to agree, he has been let down by those above and we should have strengthened the team/squad from the position of strength that we had in the summer but we didn't need to hear that we should be grateful, the sensible thing to do was too add players not just keep what we had. Its not as if we had to spend millions, players like Diame could/should have been snapped up on Bosmans. While we are still putting teams out which should be capable of getting results i think the main thing is that our first choice 11 is really good but we drop so far when a couple go out. Colo is immense and holds the defence together but when he isn't there the defence looks all over the place. HBA is the creative force of the team and the biggest blow is Tiote and Cabaye, those 2 together MAKE our team and sadly for one reason or another we haven't had them on the pitch together enough this season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardsleymagic Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 The thing is while its true that lack of investment is a big problem, the main thing for me is the tactics this season have been terrible and thats down to pardew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Pardew's incredibly lucky that the press seem to have not picked up on what's going on here. He's under very little pressure and receives next to no scrutiny at all. And having the confidence of the board, as well as a sparkling new 8 (eight) year contract, he's in a remarkably privileged position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minhosa Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 The next two months are going to be the biggest test of Ashley's ownership since relegation/the club being put up for sale. We'll lose 90% of the games in December. We'll be in the bottom 3 by Jan. a) Does he stick with AP? b) Does he invest heavily to keep the club up or stick to his 'value first' methodology that has, arguably, got us in this position in the first place? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 He would have the sympathy of the support in terms of resources if it wasn't for telling us every five minutes how grateful we should be to Mike and what a successful window we had. He can't have it both ways. That said, these last few performances have nothing to do with resources, as Dave has pointed out, we are still putting out a team more than capable of not getting utterly battered off Southampton. i tend to agree, he has been let down by those above and we should have strengthened the team/squad from the position of strength that we had in the summer but we didn't need to hear that we should be grateful, the sensible thing to do was too add players not just keep what we had. Its not as if we had to spend millions, players like Diame could/should have been snapped up on Bosmans. While we are still putting teams out which should be capable of getting results i think the main thing is that our first choice 11 is really good but we drop so far when a couple go out. Colo is immense and holds the defence together but when he isn't there the defence looks all over the place. HBA is the creative force of the team and the biggest blow is Tiote and Cabaye, those 2 together MAKE our team and sadly for one reason or another we haven't had them on the pitch together enough this season. While injuries and suspensions are clearly affecting us, we rarely had more than one or two out before the West Ham game and it wasn't any better. I thought we were alright against Spurs, ever since then it has been absolutely rotten. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Furthermore I think you could add any number of players to the squad but under this coaching with this mentality, I don't see it getting any better. Every single player looks awful other than the ones who can skin people, namely Ben Arfa and Santon, because that's individualism. Any player who passes the ball will not survive in this team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novocastrian Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 He would have the sympathy of the support in terms of resources if it wasn't for telling us every five minutes how grateful we should be to Mike and what a successful window we had. He can't have it both ways. That said, these last few performances have nothing to do with resources, as Dave has pointed out, we are still putting out a team more than capable of not getting utterly battered off Southampton. Exactly, which is why he is Ashley's ideal manager because he won't rock the boat. No way he'll get sacked unless we are anchored in the bottom three in January. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Furthermore I think you could add any number of players to the squad but under this coaching with this mentality, I don't see it getting any better. Every single player looks awful other than the ones who can skin people, namely Ben Arfa and Santon, because that's individualism. Any player who passes the ball will not survive in this team. Aye Santon who can beat 2 or 3 players on a marauding run and then ends up falling over or running into trouble when he reaches the final third. That's not a criticism of Santon - it's a criticism of any manager who can't exploit that ability going forward. It's like our players take turns on their own to see what they can do single-handidly while the team stands still watching. A left-back soaring down the flank in other sides would open up a host of opportunities - look at how Clyne (fresh from the championship) or Shaw (a 17 year old novice) were instrumental for Southampton today. I'm not believing for a second that they are better going forward than an Italian international. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 His NUFCTV interview has made me write off Wednesday. He's got such a defeatist attitude. Q. "Everyone needs to stand up and hopefully be confident on victory on Wednesday?" A. "Yeah, it's gonna be a tough game for us" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
binnsy Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 last season when we brought in the likes of Cabaye, it was cos Pardew wanted to "control game" and keep possession and while we did that last season it seems he only has the confidence to do that when we are at full strength and he has Tiote and Cabaye in the middle of the park, when one or both are missing we just revert to hoofing it and this season the hoof seems to come before trying to keep possession. Surely we should be on the training pitch and coaching the whole team to keep it and have faith in the other players to do the job if Cabaye and Tiote are missing. Thats one thing with the likes of Rodgers and Martinez, they have a philosophy and identity for there teams and all the players in the squad buy into it and a couple of players missing doesn't effect the way the team plays. We chop and change during games as well as game to game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Fifth place flattered us a lot last season, and some of the changes that we should have made over the summer, we now have to try and do in January. The chief aim seemed to be to concentrate on keeping the players that we had, when in fact some of the players weren't as good as was widely thought. Pardew has to take some blame for that inaction. We needed to bring in a more mobile and skilful striker who could link well with the midfield. Ba and Cisse don't work well as a combination, and one of them could have been sacrificed to bring a new man in. Ba was doing all the grumbling and should have been told to lump it or go. The policy of trying to please him has backfired. He doesn't look that interested at the moment, and team morale has been harmed. The Tiote - Cabaye combination has been over-rated. Tiote slows down possession, and Cabaye is more of a playmaker than an attacking midfielder. We could have done with someone who really attacks the box from centre midfield. We were unlucky today in that our three most skilful players were absent, and that amplified the problem. Given the players at our disposal, I don't think the problem was tactics or motivation. It was a lack of quality in key areas, for which bad planning over the summer is largely to blame. Time to hold our nerve though. Let's stick with Pardew. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 last season when we brought in the likes of Cabaye, it was cos Pardew wanted to "control game" and keep possession and while we did that last season it seems he only has the confidence to do that when we are at full strength and he has Tiote and Cabaye in the middle of the park, when one or both are missing we just revert to hoofing it and this season the hoof seems to come before trying to keep possession. Surely we should be on the training pitch and coaching the whole team to keep it and have faith in the other players to do the job if Cabaye and Tiote are missing. Thats one thing with the likes of Rodgers and Martinez, they have a philosophy and identity for there teams and all the players in the squad buy into it and a couple of players missing doesn't effect the way the team plays. We chop and change during games as well as game to game. That's because we're more interested in countering the opposition threat than having our own. We work on defensive organisation 80% of the week, the coaching staff have openly stated that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 God he doesn't half talk some shit, couldn't even bring myself to watch the whole thing. Take some fucking responsibility for the mess he's got us in. One win in 8 games, and that being a lucky last minute shot deflecting in off Cisses back... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 The amount of players Wigan had bombing forward at every opportunity when I was watching MOTD was inspiring and exuded confidence in the ability of the team; the opposition were relentlessly on the back foot and you could tell the players were feeding off that. So far Pardew's rhetoric and performance showcases the exact antithesis of this approach; evoke anxiety about your own sides ability to do the basics of defending; so much so that they become obsessed with shape and cultivating a sense of fear. That sounds drastic, but the contrasts between the two approaches were stark. It may seem churlish as one of the uninitiated to the professional game to see things in such a black and white fashion; though Pardew needs to show conviction in a paradigm shift away from whatever the fuck this apparent system is. He needs to do it quickly, with a win in the next two games I reckon, if he is to see out the year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 What in the fuck has the board and not getting him new players got to do with our pattern of play or set penises for instance. You can have a team of kids and still try something different, to keep trying the same ridiculous thing at all our set penises is simply BAD MANAGEMENT. To not try decoy runners, front post, or short, or a numerous amount of other imaginative set penises is mental. But to stick with the same unsuccessful ball to the back stick every single time is BAD MANAGEMENT. Now i think its becoming clear that his formation and tactics are going the same way as the set penises. He is showing just as much imagination with those as he has in the last 18 months in our set penises. FUCK ALL. I'm no kneejerker but i'm as worried now as i've ever been, even more so as i dont think he will be sacked. I'm done with his bullshit and charming personna. Change things or fuck off. Clear as it gets, imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 I love how 'Set Penises' is the accepted term Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 What in the f*** has the board and not getting him new players got to do with our pattern of play or set penises for instance. You can have a team of kids and still try something different, to keep trying the same ridiculous thing at all our set penises is simply BAD MANAGEMENT. To not try decoy runners, front post, or short, or a numerous amount of other imaginative set penises is mental. But to stick with the same unsuccessful ball to the back stick every single time is BAD MANAGEMENT. Now i think its becoming clear that his formation and tactics are going the same way as the set penises. He is showing just as much imagination with those as he has in the last 18 months in our set penises. f*** ALL. I'm no kneejerker but i'm as worried now as i've ever been, even more so as i dont think he will be sacked. I'm done with his bullshit and charming personna. Change things or f*** off. Clear as it gets, imo. i can't for one second understand people using the injuries or lack of investment excuses.... How would buying lots of players change anything? there's a fundamental issue with tactics, gameplan and mentality which buying players won't fix. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 You could buy players who'd suit a direct style if that's how we're going to proceed for starters as around half our team are completely wasted at the moment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 I love how 'Set Penises' is the accepted term Well tbf to me as the origin of it, they are cocking awful. It was only a matter of time before someone else would have said it. Amazingly so, even after his bullshit on Radio Newcastle about "how we will be working on something different for the new season" or something along those lines. We have done nothing different at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 What in the f*** has the board and not getting him new players got to do with our pattern of play or set penises for instance. You can have a team of kids and still try something different, to keep trying the same ridiculous thing at all our set penises is simply BAD MANAGEMENT. To not try decoy runners, front post, or short, or a numerous amount of other imaginative set penises is mental. But to stick with the same unsuccessful ball to the back stick every single time is BAD MANAGEMENT. Now i think its becoming clear that his formation and tactics are going the same way as the set penises. He is showing just as much imagination with those as he has in the last 18 months in our set penises. f*** ALL. I'm no kneejerker but i'm as worried now as i've ever been, even more so as i dont think he will be sacked. I'm done with his bullshit and charming personna. Change things or f*** off. Clear as it gets, imo. i can't for one second understand people using the injuries or lack of investment excuses.... How would buying lots of players change anything? there's a fundamental issue with tactics, gameplan and mentality which buying players won't fix. I totally accept that with 3 or so better player we would be a much better team. But we dont have 3 more players. The tactics, formation, set penises and overall displays have nowt to do with not getting new players. Its down to bad management plain and simple. And a bad manager always blames others, starting to see that too. I hope he turns it around but i hold absolutely no hope that he will or can. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 You could buy players who'd suit a direct style if that's how we're going to proceed for starters as around half our team are completely wasted at the moment. We would have to basically buy a whole new team for that so again it's no excuse for the poor performances. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 You could buy players who'd suit a direct style if that's how we're going to proceed for starters as around half our team are completely wasted at the moment. If that's the decision you have to make - stick with the manager and change the players, or stick with the players and change the manager - i know which i'd prefer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 You could buy players who'd suit a direct style if that's how we're going to proceed for starters as around half our team are completely wasted at the moment. If that's the decision you have to make - stick with the manager and change the players, or stick with the players and change the manager - i know which i'd prefer. I said the same thing earlier in the thread. Writing off the season I can just about stomach, but it's losing the players I'm worried about if he stays. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 I'm very much of the opinion that he's earned the right to have the time to turn it around but the frustration is that long term issues like set pieces, Krul's distribution and our ability to come from behind are showing little sign of improving. Pardew needs to address the faults quickly and turn it around other wise it's going to get very ugly very quickly Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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