Alan Pardew

[TRon]

Pardew absolutely does tell the players to retreat and defend the lead. That is obvious from watching his team for two years. This idea that it keeps happening out of his control is laughable.

 

Out of interest, do you think he tells them to retreat and hold onto the lead and play possession football or does he tell them to retreat and hold onto the lead by panicking and hoofing the ball to the opposition?

Both, when stress is slightly applied and we are in the lead or holding out for a drawn, we will sit deep and the players will drop dribbling forward. Just watch the last 20 games again. in the second half our players stop dribbling up the field and choose to hold positions. Its exactly why we start hoofing it. GO watch the Game stop being muppets of Pardew when you guys dont actually watch it properly.

 

Sitting deep and not dribbling in itself is not a tactical flaw.  Plenty of teams can effectively close a game out by retaining possession and not taking risks.

 

 

Nothing wrong with sitting deep in itself, I agree. It's a great opportunity to hit teams on the break if you set your team out right to take avdantage of the opposition throwing everyone forward. But you need to pass the ball out when you get possession, not thump it 70 yds down the pitch in the direction of 6'5 substitute striker.

 

Well - I agree entirely with that.  Lumping the ball upfield is brainless and self-defeating - especially when Shola had no-one within 20 yards of him to even play the ball to.  What I am trying to gauge is whether people think that Pardew actually tells them to do this or it is the reaction of a team that is low on confidence, desperate to get a win and was under severe pressure.

 

I just don't believe that Pardew actually instructs them to hoof it upfield whenever they have the ball.

 

What else are they going to do when you bring on Shola then ask your centre forwards to drop onto the right wing? I don't want to labour this point because I'm sick of making it. I just don't see any evidence that we've ever planned how to bring the ball out of defence in Pardew's time here. Let's hope now he's got his quality players he'll be able to develop it.

 

We still had another 10 players on the pitch other than Shola...!  It's not like you suddenly have to abandon all rational thought just because we've got a tall striker on the pitch.  They had plenty of options every time they had the ball.

 

Like pass to Cisse on the wing? Come off it man, like Wullie said, if it was one game you might have a point.

 

I do find putting Cisse on the wing a bit baffling, but why can't the ball be passed to Cisse on the wing?  Are you genuinely trying to say that a professional footballer can't fill in effectively on the right wing and have the ball passed to him?  It wasn't like we were playing him as a centre half.

 

You can put professional footballers wherever you like, but it's generally a good idea to play them in their natural position.

 

Putting Cisse on the wing is not a justifiable excuse as to why we can't keep possession of the ball.

 

The focus of our coaching and game preparation is not to do with having the ball. We practice mostly what we do without it.

 

Given that pass, control, move, receive, etc is not an ethos of the club currently, trying it on matchday when we're under pressure is inviting trouble.

Hence, we treat a bit more like rugby, get it out of our territory or in to touch so we can regroup.

 

That's the gist of the problem right there. It's not about one game, it's about our ethos and preparation beforehand. We are trying to change it clearly but the confused line ups and substitutions don't help.

[Dave]

The point about Villa and Reading always being likely to come back at us because they're struggling would be a lot more reasonable if we were able to do it ourselves. But we're not. Why's that?

[NG32]

The point about Villa and Reading always being likely to come back at us because they're struggling would be a lot more reasonable if we were able to do it ourselves. But we're not. Why's that?

 

 

 

[Minhosa]

I don't see things as bad as others. We've had a really poor season, some the owners fault for not strengthening in the summer, some the managers poor tactics. 

 

However, so long as we are signing quality players, we always have a chance of being a very strong team. With or without Pardew.

 

We managed to sign benny after getting promoted and sissoko whilst in a relegation fight, the mind boggles.

 

See out the season and see what happens next.

 

I think I'd go along with that for the time being.

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

The point about Villa and Reading always being likely to come back at us because they're struggling would be a lot more reasonable if we were able to do it ourselves. But we're not. Why's that?

 

Is the point not reasonable anyway though? We scrapped as hard as Villa really, just they were scrapping to get a goal and we already had the lead. Both are types of battling.

 

Obviously nobody can argue we've been playing brilliantly like.

[Lotus]

The point about Villa and Reading always being likely to come back at us because they're struggling would be a lot more reasonable if we were able to do it ourselves. But we're not. Why's that?

 

Is the point not reasonable anyway though? We scrapped as hard as Villa really, just they were scrapping to get a goal and we already had the lead. Both are types of battling.

 

Obviously nobody can argue we've been playing brilliantly like.

 

I think Dave's asking why we can't fight to get back on level terms or win when we're chasing a game. Why is it, we've never won a league game when going behind under AP?

Quite a baffling stat, actually

[TaylorJ_01]

dcmk, his cowardly nature has largely developed this season for some reason. The fact you highlighted those games from last season is proof of that. God knows what Pardew is thinking.

[Wullie]

Baffling only if you've not watched us I would say. We know we don't do any work on breaking teams down, we're ok when both teams need a goal but if they decide they no longer need one and drop back, we're fucked.

 

Which is ironic because that's exactly the situation that Pardew's fans keep telling us is his unfortunate undoing that he has no control over - "they needed a goal so we literally had no alternative but to get battered for 45 minutes" (and usually lose). Yet when it's us needing a goal, it's deemed acceptable that we are totally unable to get one in over two years.

[NG32]

Baffling only if you've not watched us I would say. We know we don't do any work on breaking teams down, we're ok when both teams need a goal but if they decide they no longer need one and drop back, we're f***ed.

 

Which is ironic because that's exactly the situation that Pardew's fans keep telling us is his unfortunate undoing that he has no control over - "they needed a goal so we literally had no alternative but to get battered for 45 minutes" (and usually lose). Yet when it's us needing a goal, it's deemed acceptable that we are totally unable to get one in over two years.

 

Not forgetting we totally lose our shape, just throws players on.

[Hanshithispantz]

His Plan A for when we're both ahead and behind is Shola, it makes no sense at all.

[Guest neesy111]

His Plan B with throwing Shola on has to be the most predictable tactic for other managers to guess.

[Mr Logic]

Those doubting that Pardew tells the players to clear the ball to our lone Shola ask yourselves this.

 

If that wasn't Pardews instructions do you not think he would be telling them to stop doing it as its so clearly ineffective. He'd be shouting from the touchlines. Stop hitting it long ffs, the ball is just coming straight back at us. Funny none of that happens, repeatedly, game after game after game.

[maybe_next_year]

he just seems so bad at changing things, time and time again when he tries to change things (like yesterday in the second half, or any time we're behind) we just loose any sort of shape. really worrying.

[dcmk]

Those doubting that Pardew tells the players to clear the ball to our lone Shola ask yourselves this.

 

If that wasn't Pardews instructions do you not think he would be telling them to stop doing it as its so clearly ineffective. He'd be shouting from the touchlines. Stop hitting it long ffs, the ball is just coming straight back at us. Funny none of that happens, repeatedly, game after game after game.

 

I've heard him shout 'keep it! keep it' numerous times.

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

Thinking that he may be shackled by his own 'meticulous' preparation. You know the thing with the dossiers and chatting to players about how their opposite number plays, what their habits are etc. Think this leads him to be far too inflexible and doesn't allow him to come up with a plan b.

 

This isn't supposed to be an excuse for him either.

[mofo]

I wouldn't say i'm pro Pardew, but personally I want to see him finish this season before making any sweeping judgement.  He deserves that after last season and personally I am sick to death of the managerial carousel at our club. 

 

The team has gone through one really bad patch of form and suddenly there should be drastic change? It's clear he has all the support and respect of the whole dressing room.  How many of our previous managers have had that?

 

If he went who would we appoint?  Be Terry Venables or someone of that ilk. 

 

A common line I have seen in this thread has been 'Pardew is a coward', 'shits himself when his team is in front, loses his bottle and tries sit on a lead.' - It's a complete myth.  Just take a look at last season:

 

Chelsea (A) 2-0

Stoke (H) 3-0

Bolton (H) 2-0

Swansea (A) 2-0

Liverpool (H) 2-0

WBA  (A)  3-1

Blackburn (H) 2-0

Manchester United (H) 3-0

 

Those fixtures were just from January 2012 until May 2012, they're the only ones that i could be bothered to dig out.  All those wins suggests that he didn't sit on the lead back then and didn't stop playing after being ahead.  So why accuse him of that if it's not true?  Something has changed yes, but the blame is better pointed at the players.

 

From the above it's obvious that a part of the problem this season is with their confidence, it has been massively hit by the bad run of form.  It led them to collapse against Reading and nearly again yesterday - but all the criticism from this is on 100% on Pardew - it's almost unthinkable to blame the players in anyway.  His subs have been somewhat of a problem in these games but that completely absolve the players for collapsing.

 

Yesterday, when the opposition asserted some pressure the team dropped noticeably deeper and deeper and no-one looked like they wanted the ball.  Especially after a few hefty Villa challenges, their aerial prowess and their constant closing down it's all something that really unsettled us.  So i can even understand Shola's introduction, I hate the guy, but can sort of see the logic, as at least he would stay further up front and not look to drop deep like Cisse was doing the entire second half.  Before Shola's introduction, when we weren't in possession i couldn't believe that Cisse was almost back in the right back position on a few occasions.  When we are playing with one striker that falls right into the opponents hands.

 

The positives that i can see for Pardew are that he wants the team to play good football - we haven't been playing 'hoofball' for over two months now.  He does seem to recognise the weak areas of the squad (Simpson, Williamson, Jonas - publicly) and has replaced them this month with genuine quality.  Undoubtedly has the support of the dressing room and the top of the hierarchy and also has on his CV that he led a weaker squad within a few points of a Champions League position.

 

 

 

Nice post, 

 

I agree about giving him until the end of the season, Some of the subs baffle me but as you say he seems to have the support of the dressing room which is a major plus.

 

Hopefully this could be the result that kicks our season into gear?!?

[Spudil]

I cannot believe that the same people who have been claiming all season that Simpson and Williamson were to blame for us going long are now still trying to claim it's the players to blame.

 

 

 

[Shak]

I think it's wrong to say that he's an out and out bad manager, much as I've found the job he's done this year to be very poor.

 

I do think he's very good at organising us from a purely defensive point of view. Williamson however has no business even being a squad player at this level, he's a complete and utter liability, and since Pardew's basically been forced into starting him this year I can sympathise with him a bit. Last year our good start was largely founded on how difficult it was to score goals against us, only Man City managed to score more than once against us last year until Taylor went out injured. This year it's been difficult for him to build that solid base again. Hopefully the arrival or MYM coupled with the return of Taylor means that Williamson has kicked his last ball for us, I'll be interested to see if we can get back to being a difficult side to score goals against.

 

We're also capable of going out and playing decent stuff when we actually try to. The last two games we've completely bossed the first 45 minutes, against Reading we could easily have been three or four up by half time and obviously last night against Villa we played excellently in the first half.

 

The problem, as has been pointed out countless times over the last dozen pages, is of course that once we get a lead we're far too negative. Games that we have the initiative in we just relinquish our grip and invite our opponents to have a go at us. This isn't necessarily a bad strategy, but only if you're going to set up to play on the break and try and score more goals that way. We don't do that. We just stick everyone bar Cisse/Shola behind the ball and try to keep them out as best we can. When we do get the ball it inevitably gets launched towards the lone striker, with very little attempt from our midfielders to break quickly and try and exploit the space teams leave at the back while chasing a goal.

 

If we can avoid a serious bad run of injuries between now and the end of the season I think we'll stay up. Not expecting anything from the next two games but after that our fixture list gets a lot more manageable, with Ben Arfa hopefully to come back couple with the new arrivals I think it'd take something truly special to take this squad of players down.

 

But then what?

 

With the way he manages during games I can't see him ever being able to achieve top six finishes on a regular basis, and with the quality of players that Graham Carr has been recruiting the last couple of years I truly believe that's an achievable aim in the very near future. The Manchester clubs and Chelsea might be beyond reach, but the rest of the league is there to be fought with IMO. Add a quality striker/winger type to the current squad and it looks very, very impressive to me.

 

But is Pardew good enough to lead them anywhere better than mid table? I really can't see it I'm afraid, not unless he changes his approach considerably. We'll be a hard team to beat, but he just doesn't have the killer instinct that good managers do. He plays to not lose rather than playing to win.

 

I think we're putting together a great little team, and it would be a shame if we didn't give them a manager who can get the best out of them. The key in all this will be Ashley. Will he be happy enough to cruise along with his yes man in charge and hope that Pardew improves with time, or will he be bold and take a risk on someone who he thinks can be better? I'm guessing it'll be the former, so let's hope Pardew grows a pair at some point.

[Hughesy]

Those doubting that Pardew tells the players to clear the ball to our lone Shola ask yourselves this.

 

If that wasn't Pardews instructions do you not think he would be telling them to stop doing it as its so clearly ineffective. He'd be shouting from the touchlines. Stop hitting it long ffs, the ball is just coming straight back at us. Funny none of that happens, repeatedly, game after game after game.

 

Yeah - he actually did it repeatedly last night..

[buzza]

I think it's wrong to say that he's an out and out bad manager, much as I've found the job he's done this year to be very poor.

 

I do think he's very good at organising us from a purely defensive point of view. Williamson however has no business even being a squad player at this level, he's a complete and utter liability, and since Pardew's basically been forced into starting him this year I can sympathise with him a bit. Last year our good start was largely founded on how difficult it was to score goals against us, only Man City managed to score more than once against us last year until Taylor went out injured. This year it's been difficult for him to build that solid base again. Hopefully the arrival or MYM coupled with the return of Taylor means that Williamson has kicked his last ball for us, I'll be interested to see if we can get back to being a difficult side to score goals against.

 

We're also capable of going out and playing decent stuff when we actually try to. The last two games we've completely bossed the first 45 minutes, against Reading we could easily have been three or four up by half time and obviously last night against Villa we played excellently in the first half.

 

The problem, as has been pointed out countless times over the last dozen pages, is of course that once we get a lead we're far too negative. Games that we have the initiative in we just relinquish our grip and invite our opponents to have a go at us. This isn't necessarily a bad strategy, but only if you're going to set up to play on the break and try and score more goals that way. We don't do that. We just stick everyone bar Cisse/Shola behind the ball and try to keep them out as best we can. When we do get the ball it inevitably gets launched towards the lone striker, with very little attempt from our midfielders to break quickly and try and exploit the space teams leave at the back while chasing a goal.

 

If we can avoid a serious bad run of injuries between now and the end of the season I think we'll stay up. Not expecting anything from the next two games but after that our fixture list gets a lot more manageable, with Ben Arfa hopefully to come back couple with the new arrivals I think it'd take something truly special to take this squad of players down.

 

But then what?

 

With the way he manages during games I can't see him ever being able to achieve top six finishes on a regular basis, and with the quality of players that Graham Carr has been recruiting the last couple of years I truly believe that's an achievable aim in the very near future. The Manchester clubs and Chelsea might be beyond reach, but the rest of the league is there to be fought with IMO. Add a quality striker/winger type to the current squad and it looks very, very impressive to me.

 

But is Pardew good enough to lead them anywhere better than mid table? I really can't see it I'm afraid, not unless he changes his approach considerably. We'll be a hard team to beat, but he just doesn't have the killer instinct that good managers do. He plays to not lose rather than playing to win.

 

I think we're putting together a great little team, and it would be a shame if we didn't give them a manager who can get the best out of them. The key in all this will be Ashley. Will he be happy enough to cruise along with his yes man in charge and hope that Pardew improves with time, or will he be bold and take a risk on someone who he thinks can be better? I'm guessing it'll be the former, so let's hope Pardew grows a pair at some point.

I agree with the above.

The only point that I see difficult is the replacement of Pardew with an upper tier manager that will accept very restricted funding (unless you're aboiut to go down!) and the sale of your best players when the big boys come calling. I really think we will soon be a club that only ever challenges for the 4th to 8th places in the league.

Please prove me wrong Mike!

[Dr Venkman]

The implication being Pardew says nowt in the week or the minutes before a game?

 

His game plan was spot on.  It was Lambert's half time team talk that changed the game, not pardews. 

 

 

So why can't Pardew change game's at HT then as clearly proven by the stats?  Why can't he counteract to when the opposition make changes?

why would he change things at half time in a game we're dominating?  He didn't his team talk was " more of that".  Lambert changed things because he had to. Pardew struggled to come up with an answer to their changes....but the best alternative I have heard is Sammy Ameobi would have made all the difference.  Clearly that is bollocks.

 

He clearly did change things as we sat about 10 yards deeper 2nd half, like we did against West Brom, Swansea, Reading etc this season and the tactic was to kick it longer.

 

Just because Villa went for it doesn't excuse why we utter shite all 2nd half, he's paid as manager to sort that out and his answers to it were utterly predictable and made no change whatsoever.

 

it was backs to the wall after villas resurgence. Not a defensive change that invited villa into the game.

 

I was disgusted with Pardew changes against Reading. But this was nowt like that.

 

He does it in every game man, every time we're ahead, what the fucks going on here? 

[Superior Acuña]

Those doubting that Pardew tells the players to clear the ball to our lone Shola ask yourselves this.

 

If that wasn't Pardews instructions do you not think he would be telling them to stop doing it as its so clearly ineffective. He'd be shouting from the touchlines. Stop hitting it long ffs, the ball is just coming straight back at us. Funny none of that happens, repeatedly, game after game after game.

 

Not this saying this in contradiction of that, but he was visibly urging them to push up the pitch last night when so deep while Villa had it.

[Consortium of one]

I think he's lost his nerve.  As a result he's become ultra conservative.  The reality is that what the club has done in this window should have been done in the summer.  In all fairness to Pardew, had the club been this aggressive in aquiring players this past summer, he may have continued on as the manager he was last year: a little more bolder, a little more innovative.  Instead, I see a manager who has been backed into a corner by a thin squad and I honestly don't know if he can find his way out.  He certainly deserves the chance to try and I'd give him the rest of the season to do so.  However, if he continues with this conservative hoof-ball approach...he'll have to go.

[Hanshithispantz]

It does my tits in when people come out with shite like that, "Villa were losing at half time so it is expected that they come out of the blocks flying, force 2 excellent saves within 2 minutes and then win a penalty". We came out for the second half with the intention of sitting back on our advantage and it almost backfired again.

[Hanshithispantz]

I hope this has shades of Norwich last season though, we sat on a 1 goal lead from about the 15 minute then when we needed a win but were massively improved after it.