Pardew Out?

[Taylor Swift]

I can't believe that I'm going to defend him but you know what, in Moyes first season with Everton they finished 7th, scoring 48 goals. In his second season, they barely survived, finishing 17th and scoring only 45 goals. In his next season, they finished 4th but again only scoring 45 goals and somehow managing a goal difference of -1 (!!!). In his first 4 seasons, they didn't crack 50 goals and were the definition of the solid and hard to beat team, eking out wins through sheer hard work and a propensity to create a goal out of nothing. Since then, they've never been below 50 goals, cracked 60 once and are well on course to crack it again this year. What's the point of all this? Things change with time. Moyes' team played boring football for many years, eking out wins and finishing in the top 10 each year. They progressed gradually, their style of football changed and now theyre guaranteed top 7 contenders.

 

Is Pardew Moyes? Possibly. Possibly not. He might be a Bruce, someone who can get a good season or two out of a team but can't deliver consistently. But he can also be Moyes. Our style isn't a pleasure to watch at the moment but the season is very long and many things can change.

 

Pardew isn't the manager that we want him to be but he is the one that we have. His success last year merits at least a full year of support, relegation notwithstanding. It would be folly and hasty to change managers again after what was a brilliant year last year.

 

As I've mentioned on here before Moyes didn't have the same quality to work with as Pardew did back then.

 

Yup. Very true. And that's probably why they had such volatile results. I'm certain that we won't be in a relegation dogfight. I'm sure we'll finish 12th or above. That's disappointing and is the bottom of the range of positions that we could have expected to finish at the start of the year, but just because we've regressed to the lower limit of our talent level doesn't mean that it's going to be the same next year. Like I said, things change and they change very quickly. Before WH, we were in a decent position. Now, not so much, but a few wins will put that right, I'm sure.

[Robster]

lose to Wigan at home.

Fucking hell. Imagine the fall out after that

[Parky]

lose to Wigan at home.

Fucking hell. Imagine the fall out after that

 

It will be Armageddon bro.

[Beren]

I don't know what the basis of Pip's comparison is, tbh. One manager achieved success over time after a good season, then a few average seasons, therefore there is a good chance ours will? I'm far from convinced. Anyway for some perspective on what Moyes' was working with when he finished 17th:

 

Everton's 2003-04:

 

                            Martyn

 

    Hibbert    Yobo      Weir      Naysmith

 

Watson    Carsley    Gravesen  McFadden

 

                Jeffers    Campbell

 

 

Compard to:

 

                      Krul

 

Simpson    Colo    Saylor    Santon

 

              Tiote          Jonas

 

                    Cabaye

 

      HBA        Cisse        Ba

[Dr Venkman]

 

Pardew's tactics are questionable, but the players are making the basics look impossible. Stuff like movement, we're so static at the moment yet their is space to run into quite often, yet the players seem incapable of doing it. I cant for the life of me think Pardew is advising them this. They are professional footballers, and in my view you can only blame so much on tactics and formations if players are refusing to get the absolute fundamentals right.

 

But we know from watching us last season (and this) that Pardew teams aren't about movement, they're about staying in position (ie the opposite of moving) keeping it tight and hoping for a front man to produce a bit of magic. We've seen it with our own eyes and we've heard it from coaching staff and players as well, you shouldn't blame the players for following the managers instructions.

[Parky]

Think Gravesen was about 33 then as well.

[Guest Phil K]

Watching the interview with him after the Southampton abortion of a game, he looks REALLY worried.

TBF the players aren't helping. Too many are anonymous, and hiding - or NOT hiding and you wish they were.

Young lads like Shane Fergie are suffering because they're getting no leadership shown from ANY of the so-called main men.

Its a mess, Alan. A fair bit of the blame can be traced back to you, too

[colinmk]

Think Gravesen was about 33 then as well.

 

Davie Weir was about 54 I think, still played for another 6 years or so too.

[Taylor Swift]

Think Gravesen was about 33 then as well.

 

And was so good that Real bought him.

[Parky]

Think Gravesen was about 33 then as well.

 

Davie Weir was about 54 I think, still played for another 6 years or so too.

 

Moyes is doing well for a 90 year old.

[GuyP]

I thought he was quite tactically astute last year when he changed to 4-2-3-1 for a run of games near the end of the season, but he is so rigidly stuck on 442 at the moment it is unreal. Whether it be Ba or preferably Cisse for the longer term, just get a left winger to balance out Ben Arfa and the rest of the 11 is fine. I don't know other people's opinions of Anita's game yesterday, but the bits i saw (about 40 mins of 2nd half) he looked like he settled more and was able to move with the ball. This combine with Tiote's ball winning play, can allow Cabaye to feed the preferred Demba, with added support from 2 wingers.

 

Regards,

 

Fifa Ultimate Team

[Parky]

Think Gravesen was about 33 then as well.

 

And was so good that Real bought him.

 

Never got a game did he?

 

34 games in 2 and a half years.

 

n August 2006, a scuffle erupted at a Real Madrid training session, following a hard tackle by Gravesen on teammate Robinho,[5] Fabio Capello, the former Real Madrid manager, said about Gravesen: "The way he is, we won't have problems with him. He's just a little bit particular. I don't mess with him, he scares me - he works well tactically. His behaviour is like this, and I don't like it, everything has to be done like he wants it to be done".[6] Gravesen looked likely to leave Real Madrid before the start of the 2006–07 season, with his agent John Sivebæk confirming that a number of clubs – including Newcastle United in England[ 

[Mick]

 

Well you'd hope that they'd feel guilty about it and pull their f***ing fingers out!!

 

95% of the blame for us being where we are rests solely with the players, they should be ashamed of how they've played this season.

 

95% of the blame doesn't lie with the players at all.  They are doing what they've been told to do and they clearly aren't capable of playing the way that the manager wants them to play.

[TRon]

The Moyes/Pardew comparison has one major flaw - if Moyes played a pretty direct style for a while it's because those were the type of players he was working with. Pardew is trying to play direct football with a squad of flair players. There's a worrying lack of understanding as to how to get the best out of some very decent players, far more than Everton had, and IMO we still have a squad which is equal to, if not better than Everton's.

[Mick]

 

 

I wasn't comparing them or their CV's, but the situation is similar ie people wanted shot of Robson very quickly, and without any thought about a replacement.

 

Not everybody wanted shot of him, even if they did, it's up to the club to appoint the right person.

[Guest Haris Vuckic]

Wow.

 

This thread.

[Jack Flash]

Wow.

 

This thread.

 

 

He's earned his chance to correct the slump. I have full faith that he will.

 

"full faith"? I find that very hard to believe.

[Guest firetotheworks]

I would have full faith in him if he could see the problem that all of us can. The problems that he mentions are more excuses than anything. We don't even attempt to play a passing game, let alone be in a position to make excuses for it not working.

[Guest neesy111]

Wow.

 

This thread.

 

 

He's earned his chance to correct the slump. I have full faith that he will.

 

So what makes you feel he'll turn it around?  Can't be from his CV.

[BottledDog]

The Moyes/Pardew comparison has one major flaw - if Moyes played a pretty direct style for a while it's because those were the type of players he was working with. Pardew is trying to play direct football with a squad of flair players. There's a worrying lack of understanding as to how to get the best out of some very decent players, far more than Everton had, and IMO we still have a squad which is equal to, if not better than Everton's.

 

Flair players? Yesterday?

 

I'm struggling to think any of our players on the pitch could be considered 'flair players' beyond supposedly technically decent players in Santon and Anita.

[KaKa]

We'll get beat at Stoke and if we lose to Wigan at home, things will be seriously unhinged with regard to Pardew being able to pull things round. The team looks lost at the moment. Lacking ideas, confidence and certain players look like they have lost faith in the project they clearly believed in last year. He didn't manage to turn it around at West Ham or S'hampton, nothing suggest he will here. There is a tiny chance he has learnt from those experiences and ironically I maintain he is a better coach now in some areas - preperation and man management...But tactically he is still the same: Direct and percentage.

 

For the sake of the club I hope he does and I also hope that MA doesn't dither in the Jan window (we need at least 2 first team players). These so called weaker sides are beginning to play the kind of football that is beginning to make others relegation candidates - even S'thampton now look much more cohesive and confident.

 

If we lose to Wigan? 

 

Wigan have SIX players that drop into midfield in their current formation. If Pardew lines up in 4-4-2 they will annihilate us.

 

We cannot handle teams that play any kind of decent passing and movement game as it is.

[Stuy_O]

 

Pardew's tactics are questionable, but the players are making the basics look impossible. Stuff like movement, we're so static at the moment yet their is space to run into quite often, yet the players seem incapable of doing it. I cant for the life of me think Pardew is advising them this. They are professional footballers, and in my view you can only blame so much on tactics and formations if players are refusing to get the absolute fundamentals right.

 

But we know from watching us last season (and this) that Pardew teams aren't about movement, they're about staying in position (ie the opposite of moving) keeping it tight and hoping for a front man to produce a bit of magic. We've seen it with our own eyes and we've heard it from coaching staff and players as well, you shouldn't blame the players for following the managers instructions.

 

I don't mean deviating from position, free roles etc. I'm talking about pockets of space between opponents that all players look for and get into before getting the ball. 4 or 5 yards. Not exactly going against the managers words that, its just natural.

 

The only players doing this yesterday were Santon and Anita. Everyone else just stood still.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Aye, but then Anita was taken off as soon as he started doing that. What kind of message does that send?

[Stuy_O]

I agree, was a baffling choice and the manager is to blame for that. Still another 10 players out there though. Pardew can't bring them all off.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Why are we having a bad season?

 

Obviously a number of factors have all played or are continuing to play their part.

 

1 - For me it all stretches back to the Euros for a start with several of our players having played in that meaning less time to recover/train etc. Cabaye for one has suffered and he is a key player for us.

 

2 - Then we have the actual pre-season. Jetting off all over the world playing obscure sides does nothing for developing a game plan and a pattern of play. It may get the players fit and help with bonding but when you spend most of your time up in the air, in hotels and basically checking in and out, it leaves little time to develop anything really.

 

3 - For me the lack of new signings in the summer has played a huge role in our fortunes this season. I imagine the players and indeed the manager were expecting new faces and quality ones at that and we actually needed these players due to our small squad and extra games so for none to come in must have been a huge blow. This put a huge downer on the start of the season, especially on the stands. That has had a negative knock-on effect all-round.

 

4 - Our start to the season... we have played Spurs, Man Utd, Everton, Chelsea, Liverpool and the mackems all traditionally tough fixtures and we have also faced the three promoted sides which traditionally are also tough fixtures. Throw in mid-week Euro games and this has been an extra tough start to the season. We have also faced several sides with new managers in charge and clubs with new managers in charge tend to be tough to beat. I'm not making excuses here by the way, but again, this has been a very tough start to the season.

 

5 - Injuries and loss of form. Several of our players have been injured or carried injuries and therefore haven't always been available for selection. A number have also been in and out of form. These things don't help.

 

6 - The Europa league has meant extra games and less time to prepare for the league and while I don't buy into how tough this has been on the players etc. I do believe the manager himself with the way he works has found it tough and like a player, if he is struggling to deal with things, he isn't going to be able to do his job properly is he. That said, he is paid to manage and he for me hasn't managed our season well at all from this perspective. When you have extra work, you delegate more, you bring in extra hands to help. You can't blame a small squad when you say you are happy with how the transfer window went. You can't blame players being tired when you field totally different sides in each competition.

 

7 - Tactics, team system, pattern of play and football philosophy etc. This is all down to the manager and for me the biggest reason why we are under performing as individuals and with it as a team and at no stage of the season has the manager shown an ability to get the very best of the players at his disposal and in a way that benefits them as individuals and the team. He is sticking with the same old same old and its not and never will work.

 

His tactics and how he wants us to play do not tally whatsoever with the players we have. We hood the ball yet we have no target man. We try to play a wide game yet we have narrow players who like to come infield. We look to get the ball forward early and quickly yet we have a playmaker and a passer in the middle. What is the point in them playing if the ball is constantly being played over them and around them.

 

The prior 6 points are all contributing factors as to why we not riding high in the table as we were this time last season or why we have started the season badly, but point number 7 is the single biggest factor as to why we are not performing and why the players are struggling and this is what will kill us in games as is now happening. Not injuries, not loss of form, not Europa games, lack of signings etc. but not performing. If you don't perform, how on earth can you expect to win games or beat someone who is performing? I.e. the opposition.

 

Because of last season and because he is our manager, he does deserve the chance to turn things around though and we as fans need to stay with him and the side a bit longer. In short have a bit more faith even if like me you don't believe he is capable of turning things around because this season is going to get tougher and the last thing we need is for drama and kick-offs.

 

If we are down there in January I'm sure Ashley and co will act to protect their business anyway, mates or no mates, Pardew will go the way of those before him if we are in danger or look to be in danger.

 

I hope to fuck we beat Stoke on Wednesday and can kick on from there. Fuck the performance, a win is what we need more than most at the moment. Howay Pardew FFS!