Pardew Out?

[TRon]

While I hope he can turn it around, I'm more concerned about where we will go long term using his abominable football tactics. There really isn't a lot of light at the end of the tunnel .

[Robster]

How much responsibility lies with Stone and Carver?

Carver in particular must have learnt a bucketload under SBR. What influence do they have ?

[Ronaldo]

I wouldn't want us to change manager mid-season unless we're in critical danger of going down anyway. Our form is abysmal, but we're still only one win from the top half and there are 25 matches still to play. So whilst I can understand why some don't think he's going to turn it around (ie trying to qualify for Europe again), we shouldn't be looking to sack Pardew anyway. Or any other manager for that matter.

 

That's if it was even feasible at all, which it isn't.

 

What happens if the manager loses the dressing room though, little options available to change it though?

 

For which manager, dude? Nobody with anything about them would come anywhere near.

 

[Guest malandro]

I wouldn't want us to change manager mid-season unless we're in critical danger of going down anyway. Our form is abysmal, but we're still only one win from the top half and there are 25 matches still to play. So whilst I can understand why some don't think he's going to turn it around (in respect of qualifying for Europe again etc), we shouldn't be looking to sack Pardew anyway. Or any other manager for that matter.

 

That's if it was even feasible at all, which it isn't.

I wouldn't want us to change manager even if things got critical.

 

I don't think AP is a good manager. I can't stand his patter and can't abide the verve with which he undertakes his Ashley PR duties. He has though done enough to see the season out, especially when changing things around mid season is always a massive risk.

 

Ashley is never going to pay compensation to bring in a proven manager mid season. In fact it's difficult to see why any manager on the up would come to SJP at all. If AP goes mid season it'll be JFK time again. Can't see the point in that.

 

Last season blew away the reality of the what kind of club NUFC now are. This season is a painful reminder of what the future holds.

[sugoinufc]

 

And Krul is becoming a liabilty. Is Elliot fit?

http://chzmemebase.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/seor-gif-when-bread-cat-learns-about-your-gluten-intolerance.gif

 

that is quality

 

[Fenham Mag]

I wonder why he hasn't been on Total Sport yet this season.

Only answers questions during the good times. No talkins planned either. Coward.

[Guest neesy111]

I wouldn't want us to change manager mid-season unless we're in critical danger of going down anyway. Our form is abysmal, but we're still only one win from the top half and there are 25 matches still to play. So whilst I can understand why some don't think he's going to turn it around (ie trying to qualify for Europe again), we shouldn't be looking to sack Pardew anyway. Or any other manager for that matter.

 

That's if it was even feasible at all, which it isn't.

 

What happens if the manager loses the dressing room though, little options available to change it though?

 

For which manager, dude? Nobody with anything about them would come anywhere near.

 

 

Thats the biggest issue thats coming from this.  Will Pardew actually feel that he could get the sack in any instance as:

 

1) No one would come to work under Ashley.

2) He's got a 8 year contract.

 

My point is if Pardew does lose the dressing room then there's usually no way for any manager to come back from that imo and we'd be stuck in limbo.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

One thing I think Ashley et al have done with the way we are set up these days is to limit if you like just how important the manager is and therefore making it easier or theoretically anyway, to replace a manager as they did with Hughton. In that sense Pardew is as dispensable as he was. It is no secret that the manager of NUFC has no real say on recruitment in or out. The manager is basically the coach. Someone to pick the right team from the players at his disposal and to create a winning formula.

 

In theory, replacing Pardew would not alter the way the club is run and how we do things in any way shape of form. Sacking Pardew and say replacing him with whoever wouldn't be like sacking Sir Bobby and replacing him with Souness or conversely sacking Ozzie and replacing him with KK. Either way the remit is the same, select a team from the players at your disposal and try to create a winning formula.

 

In many ways the club have for me, in the current climate anyway where someone like O'Niell can get you into the top 6 but fucking cripple you financially and leave you with a squad of dross, put in place a system that for once protects the club. Like in Europe, the manager is essentially that. He manages the team, the players. The scouts and financiers manage the buying and selling of the players.

 

Pardew getting sacked, would not effect how this club is ran or anything like that so in effect, replacing him, from that perspective, wouldn't really be an issue. He is after all, simply the manager or the coach, hired to pick an XI from the players the club have identified and signed to play for the club and to then create a team to win matches. Pardew has done that thus far to be fair.

 

Whether Ashley can stomach the poor performances much longer and at what point those performances start to effect his business interest within the club, will determine how long Pardew lasts.

 

If we continue as we are, Pardew will go the same was as Big Sam, KK, Shearer and Hughton. Nothing will ever get in the way of how things are done or ran under Ashley and that is how things are in business really which is what he is or we are under him, his business, a business of his.

[Mick]

 

 

Some tough matches coming up.

 

That's football, we can't just let things go the way they are heading at the minute, it would be insane to just let him keep going if things don't look like changing.  He's just had 3 games which should have brought us more points than they have.  We can't wait for our next run of easy games to see if things pick up because the longer our run goes on, the harder it will be to get out of it.

[sh74]

Its not just the fact we are losing its how we are losing.

[Dr Venkman]

He needs to be backed in January and by that I mean by bringing in players he can actually use, if we're playing long ball then lets get a target man and someone who'll feed off his knock downs.

[Sifu]

This thread sucks (this is purely based on the thread title). Bye.

 

[Guest neesy111]

He has till the new year for me but I have no faith in his ability to change things round.  I can't see where our next goal is coming from never mind point, we look as clueless in attack than I've ever seen us.  Pardew and the players have to realise we're in a crisis so the severeness of our issues is highlighted and solutions to those issues put in place.

 

What I don't get is anyone coming on here and criticising others for either wanting Pardew out or even failing to recognise the mess we are in currently.  How people can defend the way we've played all season is beyond me, we've criticised Stoke, Fat Sam, the Mackems etc for the football they play but we've been worse than all of them in how we've played in the league and are quite lucky to have 3 wins and 14 points imo.

 

Apathy is set in for me, didn't bother watching the game today or attempt to as I knew what kind of performance it'd be and it'll be the same on Wednesday.  I honestly thought at the end of last season we'd turned a corner but it's back to the usual mess and I can't justify the amount of time I spend following NUFC nowadays and the ridiculous amounts I spend from my disposable income following them.  Armchair football fans have it so easy.

 

Ultimately the whole mess is down to that fat cunt of an owner and last season was a one off, it might happen again but we will never rejoin the top 6 permanently under Ashley at all.

[Mick]

He needs to be backed in January and by that I mean by bringing in players he can actually use, if we're playing long ball then lets get a target man and someone who'll feed off his knock downs.

 

Is that added to the central defender and right back we need?

[olliemort]

I really hope he doesnt go.I would be terrified to see who would get the job next

[ExiledGeordie]

 

Whats bemusing is that our play seems to mirror the managers inability to identify a plan B in all this. It's like "well we'll just keep plugging away hoping for some luck to come our way" .....which means floating useless high balls into the box again and again and again

 

Alright he's got his limitations but he's better than this ffs. Change things up and fast

[tmonkey]

I genuinely don't believe that we couldn't attract a significantly better manager than Pardew if we wanted to. No, we won't get a big name, but there must be promising coaches at smaller clubs, be it here or abroad, where the manager clearly has the ability to "coach" a team into playing a decent brand of football. People wanting Martin Jol for example, he was the manager of a tiny Dutch club when Spurs appointed him - how did they identify and recruit him, or more importantly, why, given that he had no Premiership experience? They must have done their homework and identified him as someone competent and able to work in their structure. Same thing with Arsenal and Arsene Wenger, who was in Japan (f*** knows why) when Arsenal got him. Roberto Martinez was managing Swansea in the lower leagues before Wigan snapped him up. Etc etc. Even Pardew himself, who some don't want to see sacked, was an unemployed ex-League One manager when he casino'd his way into this job.

 

So there's undoubtedly talent out there that none of us on this board will be familar with because they're not household names, and given the way the sport does seem to be improving in terms of coaching quality (West Brom, Wigan, Swansea, Southampton - they are definitely "good football" sides and far superior to the equivalent "small" teams we had in the Premiership 5 or 10 years ago), coaching badge requirements, etc etc, I'm sure there are naturally talented managers out there who don't have Premiership or CL experience (be it domestic or foreign).

 

The only issue with replacing Pardew should we want to, therefore, is whether the board are progressive enough to identify/find these talented/upcoming managers or know who they are. And I'm sure once we did find these guys we'd have little problem attracting them if we did identify them given the general stature of the club and the current crop of internationals. So it's not a manager of "can't" but "won't", which is naturally a different matter.

 

Of course there's still the nightmare scenario of another Kinnear, but to be fair to Ashley/Llambias, given that post-relegation our transfer policy has been pretty much spot on in terms of identifying the type of players we should be going after (ambitious/hungry/etc) and the fact that we seem to be actually scouting players competently for once, I wouldn't say it's impossible that they may have improved in this department. Maybe they should just ask Carr if he knows of any talented/promising managers out there with a reputation for attractive football?

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

http://replygif.net/i/217

[Mistle17]

One thing I think Ashley et al have done with the way we are set up these days is to limit if you like just how important the manager is and therefore making it easier or theoretically anyway, to replace a manager as they did with Hughton. In that sense Pardew is as dispensable as he was. It is no secret that the manager of NUFC has no real say on recruitment in or out. The manager is basically the coach. Someone to pick the right team from the players at his disposal and to create a winning formula.

 

In theory, replacing Pardew would not alter the way the club is run and how we do things in any way shape of form. Sacking Pardew and say replacing him with whoever wouldn't be like sacking Sir Bobby and replacing him with Souness or conversely sacking Ozzie and replacing him with KK. Either way the remit is the same, select a team from the players at your disposal and try to create a winning formula.

 

In many ways the club have for me, in the current climate anyway where someone like O'Niell can get you into the top 6 but f***ing cripple you financially and leave you with a squad of dross, put in place a system that for once protects the club. Like in Europe, the manager is essentially that. He manages the team, the players. The scouts and financiers manage the buying and selling of the players.

 

Pardew getting sacked, would not effect how this club is ran or anything like that so in effect, replacing him, from that perspective, wouldn't really be an issue. He is after all, simply the manager or the coach, hired to pick an XI from the players the club have identified and signed to play for the club and to then create a team to win matches. Pardew has done that thus far to be fair.

 

Whether Ashley can stomach the poor performances much longer and at what point those performances start to effect his business interest within the club, will determine how long Pardew lasts.

 

If we continue as we are, Pardew will go the same was as Big Sam, KK, Shearer and Hughton. Nothing will ever get in the way of how things are done or ran under Ashley and that is how things are in business really which is what he is or we are under him, his business, a business of his.

 

Good post.

[Shak]

I genuinely don't believe that we couldn't attract a significantly better manager than Pardew if we wanted to. No, we won't get a big name, but there must be promising coaches at smaller clubs, be it here or abroad, where the manager clearly has the ability to "coach" a team into playing a decent brand of football. People wanting Martin Jol for example, he was the manager of a tiny Dutch club when Spurs appointed him - how did they identify and recruit him, or more importantly, why, given that he had no Premiership experience? They must have done their homework and identified him as someone competent and able to work in their structure. Same thing with Arsenal and Arsene Wenger, who was in Japan (f*** knows why) when Arsenal got him. Roberto Martinez was managing Swansea in the lower leagues before Wigan snapped him up. Etc etc. Even Pardew himself, who some don't want to see sacked, was an unemployed ex-League One manager when he casino'd his way into this job.

 

So there's undoubtedly talent out there that none of us on this board will be familar with because they're not household names, and given the way the sport does seem to be improving in terms of coaching quality (West Brom, Wigan, Swansea, Southampton - they are definitely "good football" sides and far superior to the equivalent "small" teams we had in the Premiership 5 or 10 years ago), coaching badge requirements, etc etc, I'm sure there are naturally talented managers out there who don't have Premiership or CL experience (be it domestic or foreign).

 

The only issue with replacing Pardew should we want to, therefore, is whether the board are progressive enough to identify/find these talented/upcoming managers or know who they are. And I'm sure once we did find these guys we'd have little problem attracting them if we did identify them given the general stature of the club and the current crop of internationals. So it's not a manager of "can't" but "won't", which is naturally a different matter.

 

Of course there's still the nightmare scenario of another Kinnear, but to be fair to Ashley/Llambias, given that post-relegation our transfer policy has been pretty much spot on in terms of identifying the type of players we should be going after (ambitious/hungry/etc) and the fact that we seem to be actually scouting players competently for once, I wouldn't say it's impossible that they may have improved in this department. Maybe they should just ask Carr if he knows of any talented/promising managers out there with a reputation for attractive football?

 

 

Said something similar last week. We won't attract a big name manager, but that's not how we do things anymore. I'd be well up for seeing us take a punt on a relative unknown from the continent, I'd be interested to see who Carr would recommend.

[Parky]

Thomas Tuchel and Marcus Babbel are excellent young managers imo and not massive names. Might love a crack at the PL. As said above there are a lot of very good young coaches out there, just below the radar. Although as already said MA will hang onto Pards as long as possible as they seem to have a good relationship...Wether that will last a relegation battle remains to be seen. I suspect MA will want to protect his investment and not take another 50m relegation hit.

 

A few weeks ago I was still in the Pards will turn it around camp...But it really is looking grim now. Think there is a lot more wrong than just formations and injuries or whatever..Think the players aren't really sure what's going on anymore and certainly there have been signs over the last few weeks that some of them aren't that focused (being polite). If that is the case then it's now becoming almost a herculian task for Pardew.

 

I don't have anything against him but just looks like he's really out of his depth in this particular situation. What's very alarming is seeing him stick to such a bankrupt gameplan for so long.

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

One thing I think Ashley et al have done with the way we are set up these days is to limit if you like just how important the manager is and therefore making it easier or theoretically anyway, to replace a manager as they did with Hughton. In that sense Pardew is as dispensable as he was. It is no secret that the manager of NUFC has no real say on recruitment in or out. The manager is basically the coach. Someone to pick the right team from the players at his disposal and to create a winning formula.

 

In theory, replacing Pardew would not alter the way the club is run and how we do things in any way shape of form. Sacking Pardew and say replacing him with whoever wouldn't be like sacking Sir Bobby and replacing him with Souness or conversely sacking Ozzie and replacing him with KK. Either way the remit is the same, select a team from the players at your disposal and try to create a winning formula.

 

In many ways the club have for me, in the current climate anyway where someone like O'Niell can get you into the top 6 but f***ing cripple you financially and leave you with a squad of dross, put in place a system that for once protects the club. Like in Europe, the manager is essentially that. He manages the team, the players. The scouts and financiers manage the buying and selling of the players.

 

Pardew getting sacked, would not effect how this club is ran or anything like that so in effect, replacing him, from that perspective, wouldn't really be an issue. He is after all, simply the manager or the coach, hired to pick an XI from the players the club have identified and signed to play for the club and to then create a team to win matches. Pardew has done that thus far to be fair.

 

Whether Ashley can stomach the poor performances much longer and at what point those performances start to effect his business interest within the club, will determine how long Pardew lasts.

 

If we continue as we are, Pardew will go the same was as Big Sam, KK, Shearer and Hughton. Nothing will ever get in the way of how things are done or ran under Ashley and that is how things are in business really which is what he is or we are under him, his business, a business of his.

 

Good post.

 

Decent post HTT. The difficulty is that I am starting to think the players heads have dropped and if any hypothetical appointment wasn't the right one it may exacerbate this problem and worsen the situation. Changing managers in a comfortable mid-table team or better may not rock the boat. Doing it in a struggling one arguably could.

 

The question then becomes how do we stop the rot? At the moment I would say we give Pardew time and hope he can learn something from what's going on. He has shown (albeit on a limited level and perhaps more as a result of circumstances) that he can change things within the team for a positive effect. Will this change what is starting to be perceived as an endemic lack of focus on the teams play in training? Probably not. Generally though people learn from their mistakes and he must be starting to realise now things have gotten bad that he needs to start to think about doing things differently.

 

Any manager who belligerently persists with a plan which leads them into difficulty will find themselves out of the door fairly quickly. The arrogance of Allardyce during his time here being the perfect example. At the moment things are bad. It will be January before the situation is untenable. 

[Mole_Toonfan]

If we were to sack Pardew i wouldn't expect a big name manager.....but i would see no reason at all why we couldn't employ a manager who is good tactically,plays a style of football that suits the players we have the players we are likely to invest in.

 

Hell when i have watched our kids they play a style of football which suits our first team players i feel and that would also make the step up it the first team a lot easier for the kids and better for the club as a whole if from the first team to the kids the style is the same.

 

Just depends whether the board can actually make a smart appointment and not a retarded one like they have in the past.

[indi]

Whilst for me the vast majority of the blame for where we are this season lies at the feet of the players, the drop off in their performances compared to last season is disgraceful, I think Pardew has made two fundamental errors. People can argue about formations, not buying certain players and keeping others, substitutions and whatever, but the fact is these players playing these formations, etc, performed much much better last season, so why the difference between then and now?

 

Last season was built on good form, good form established early in the season and maintained throughout the remainder, this season we've never found that form and that's all down to our slow start to the campaign. We've not played well for a full match at all this season and I think that's down to a lack of fitness and confidence, like I said we've still got the same players with the same ability, they're just not playing to the best of that ability. So Pardew's two failures for me are not getting the players fully fit for the start of the campaign - some of them still don't look fit to me - and playing a weakened team in the Europa League.

 

The first one's pretty obvious, but the second might need a bit of explanation. If we'd have started the season well, then fine play the kids in the European games and rest some of the more important players, but we didn't we started badly and struggled to find our form. We could have had some good morale-boosting wins and performances in those early Europa games - as it is we've qualified pretty easily whilst still playing pretty badly - and it would have allowed some of our bigger players to find their fitness and form. But instead of that we've chopped and changed our team every other game and so it's hardly surprising that the players play like they don't know each other. I'm sorry, I know it's the received wisdom to say that these professional athletes can't handle playing two games a week despite the fact that they spend the entire rest of the time simply preparing to do just that, but I just don't buy it. Perhaps at the end of the season they might need a rest, but what they need at the start is as much game time as possible, it gets them fit and it establishes their form, two things that have been glaringly absent from our season so far.

[Interpolic]

I don't think it's a huge surprise that we haven't managed to play well over 90 minutes to be honest, given the mentality we seem to have a) when we start games and b) when we score the first goal.  We didn't play well over 90 minutes too often last year either.