Mr. Snrub Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 How is aiming to win the League and Champions League with Bayern Munich not a challenge? What if they are the holders of both when he takes over, which is a near certainty for the league and very possible with the CL. He couldn't replicate that with Barcelona, so it would be even more of a challenge with Bayern. Especially as it would be his first season with a new club in a new environment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Aye fuck off until you've won the league with Wigan, Pep. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Aye fuck off until you've won the league with Wigan, Pep. I'd never deny the managerial ability of someone like Guardiola, however I'd deny the gravity of their achievements when they've just bounced from one obvious contender to another. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 It's not the same as Messi at all because a player can't single-handedly drag a team to anything - if Messi scores an average of two a game and the back four concede three, he's going to struggle to win anything. A manager's different, he's in total control - if the back four's shit, that's his fault. In fact I'd have had a lot more respect for Guardiola if he'd stayed at Barcelona because reinventing a winning team over and over, like Ferguson, is a massive and very genuine challenge in itself, a lot more of a challenge than going to a brilliant team/rich club, winning stuff then fucking off imo. Messi (the poster), do you think Mourinho/Guardiola would win a title/Champions League with Arsenal/Spurs/Everton/Newcastle/Liverpool with the resources each of those clubs have at their disposal, like Brian Clough did? Maybe the answer is yes, but we'll never know, cos they wouldn't dare try - they wouldn't even dare try at a massive and successful club like Dortmund, where the chance of losing players/not being given a fortune is still significantly higher than at Bayern Munich. If the answer is no, then let's not kid ourselves that they're something more special than a load of other managers that could (and do) win stuff with tons of money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I would love for Mourinhou or Pep to manage a club like Wigan and try and take them to the top, and I agree that's a better challenge than at Bayern Munich, but in the end the best managers desperately want to win things, not get a team like Wigan to finish 7th or something. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Wullie, would you not say that Mourinho winning the Champions League with Porto proves that he's got it in him to win things with a "lesser" club? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Managing a big club compared to a small club requires different skill sets, though. That's why you see managers who are successful at smaller clubs struggle to step up and vice versa. Players are motivated differently, transfers are conducted differently and tactically it's not the same. Just because managers fail when they change clubs doesn't mean that they weren't good in the first place. There is no recipe for success. You can be tough and fail, you can be soft and fail, you can be tactically brilliant but fail and you can be a brilliant man-manager and still fail. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I would say a manager who changes clubs and leagues and continues to succeed is better than someone who stays in the same league and continues to succeed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Not sure why Wigan have become the reference point. It's not necessarily about "big" clubs because Arsenal are a vastly bigger club than Chelsea. This lot just don't want to try their luck without a boatload of money behind them. They want to play the game as long as they don't have to work with the challenges that the other 95% of managers have to. Porto was a fantastic achievement from Mourinho although I'm someone who's very wary of extrapolating ability from cup competitions because the margins are too fine when compared to a league (not that he hasn't had great league success and clearly is a great manager, I just baulk at this "Special One" garbage). It's not like I'm saying that these blokes are a load of shite, just that I can't stand the arse-licking they all get for winning stuff with either clubs who've been winning the same stuff for the last hundred years or clubs who have ten times as much money as everyone else. What a bore. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 A manager's different, he's in total control - if the back four's s***, that's his fault. In fact I'd have had a lot more respect for Guardiola if he'd stayed at Barcelona because reinventing a winning team over and over, like Ferguson, is a massive and very genuine challenge in itself, a lot more of a challenge than going to a brilliant team/rich club, winning stuff then f***ing off imo. I agree with this, I respect Ferguson a lot in the way he's gone through the ups and downs at ManU, and been able to create winning side after winning side. I can't really think of many contemporary managers that have been able to create more than a successful cycle at the same club, once the players that provided that declined. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Not sure why Wigan have become the reference point. It's not necessarily about "big" clubs because Arsenal are a vastly bigger club than Chelsea. This lot just don't want to try their luck without a boatload of money behind them. They want to play the game as long as they don't have to work with the challenges that the other 95% of managers have to. Porto was a fantastic achievement from Mourinho although I'm someone who's very wary of extrapolating ability from cup competitions because the margins are too fine when compared to a league (not that he hasn't had great league success and clearly is a great manager, I just baulk at this "Special One" garbage). It's not like I'm saying that these blokes are a load of shite, just that I can't stand the arse-licking they all get for winning stuff with either clubs who've been winning the same stuff for the last hundred years or clubs who have ten times as much money as everyone else. What a bore. Yep, it's a good point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I would say a manager who changes clubs and leagues and continues to succeed is better than someone who stays in the same league and continues to succeed. Maybe, although it is hard to say. Just look at how the premiership has changed over the past 20 years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Yep not sticking around at Barca to reinvent the team (and some credit he did shift things about his last season, however successfully) does count against him. However the reinvention he instigated when he started was pretty ballsy. Mourinho wants to collect everything and is unlikely to settle down for the long term, so he may never prove that ability. I don't think 'top managers' are million miles above others, and yes the trophies of those afforded the chance at clubs with huge resources does distort the picture significantly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I don't think 'top managers' are million miles above others, and yes the trophies of those afforded the chance at clubs with huge resources does distort the picture significantly. There's something to be said about being able to handle a big club environment. Pellegrini, for all his ability as manager, was devoured by the dressing room and club politics at Real Madrid. That's also a part of football, whether we like it or not. I don't think you could, say, put Curbishley in charge of ManU and be instantly a success. That said, Barça are pretty much managerless nowadays and walking the league (although our form has indeed declined since Vilanova left). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I agree with Wullie. Really like Martinez for that reason. Had several opportunities to move to clubs where they'd throw cash at him and turned them down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I agree with Wullie. Really like Martinez for that reason. Had several opportunities to move to clubs where they'd throw cash at him and turned them down. It's strange that not a single la Liga club has ever gone for him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Tbf I don't think Inter are in that top bracket of European club although at the time Mou was there they had an extended run of being top dogs in Italy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 On the whole thing with managers. It's similar to film directors imo. Most of the time their talent gets them to the top, but then their reputation affords them to stay there. Money, basically. I can't say I wouldn't be the same in their position. FWIW I think anything for Guardiola after Barca would be a challenge considering he left the best team in the world at their peak. Going to Bayern might not have been a massive domestic challenge, but winning the CL with them would be a big deal. And you cannot argue with Mourinho at Inter Milan like, he instantly won the treble ffs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Barcelona line-up : Valdes - Alves Pique Puyol Alba - Xavi Busquets Cesc - Pedro Messi Iniesta AC Milan line up: Abbiati, Abate, Mexes, Zapata, Constant, Ambrosini, Montolivo, Muntari, El Shaarawy, Pazzini, Boateng Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Hope Barca batters them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Some outstanding hyperbole going on about Arsenal on Sky atm. 27 year old Lukas Podolski and 28 year old Per Mertesacker described as 'over the hill' by 'expert' Jamie Redknapp. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Mertesacker has been absolute shite for them mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timeEd32 Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Ah, shit. I totally missed the fact that Balotelli is cup-tied. That sucks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Mertesacker has been absolute shite for them mind. That's beside the point, Redknapp was claiming that they could only attract 'over the hill' players like them. Both were 26 when they signed for Arsenal, the ancient fuckers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Colossus Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Samba's 28. Know who I'd rather have out of him and Mertesacker tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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