Alan Pardew

[Dr Venkman]

Seriously? That's your conclusion? Could you come round mine tomorrow morning and let me know why I'm eating breakfast? I think it's because I'm hungry but I need some stats to prove it.

 

If it's so obvious what Jonas offers, why do so many people say he's clearly wrong in playing him when fit?

 

Because we shouldn't be deploying a player in an attacking position for his defensive duties, and because he's been utterly awful with the ball this year. We all know what his priorities are though don't we.

[Hanshithispantz]

Seriously? That's your conclusion? Could you come round mine tomorrow morning and let me know why I'm eating breakfast? I think it's because I'm hungry but I need some stats to prove it.

 

If it's so obvious what Jonas offers, why do so many people say he's clearly wrong in playing him when fit?

It's also so obvious what he doesn't offer.

 

Not that I think there is no use for him, I just don't think he should be starting 33 games a season and playing the full 90 in the vast majority of them when we look completely shot in attack.

[Happy Face]

I find it worrying that a manager is so reliant on his left winger to not concede to 6 and 7 goal scorelines.

 

Indeed.

 

Santon, Haidara or Ferguson are going to have to get their arses in gear.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

He's definitely conservative, I would aay his natural style would be too build a solid unit that the flair players could operate on top of. I don't think he hates all talented players and just loves cloggers.

 

I think the argument between HF and Wullie is Flawed because the team selections by Pardew is constantly more conservative.

His first eleven has a defensive approach, and his reluctance to drop some of the more defensive players and his insistence to sub the attacking players at nearly every game makes a compelling case.

 

The case that he wants to build a solid unit before we are allowed to go on the offensive, this highly writes off putting the players on paper and using it as a argument because of his preference in his selection.

 

So if we agree that he is more conservative, the next question is whether he could build a solid unit neutralizing opposition attacks.

This is actually worth debating since , i dont think Pardew is that great organizing a defensive unit as well.

Some of the flows of his games has been founded out and overall i think where we try to close teams down , we had not been effective from doing it.

 

Pardew might be out of his dept in the defensive department as well base on the current performances.

This is a worry...

 

If that last sentence comes to pass then obviously Pardew is finished. I think there are just about enough reasons (lack of preparation time, player form, lack of confidence, injuries etc) to postpone that conclusion for now. But obviously if he proves incapable of producing an organised unit longer term then he's doomed.

[Happy Face]

Seriously? That's your conclusion? Could you come round mine tomorrow morning and let me know why I'm eating breakfast? I think it's because I'm hungry but I need some stats to prove it.

 

If it's so obvious what Jonas offers, why do so many people say he's clearly wrong in playing him when fit?

 

Think it's a question of whether people think the team needs his qualities or we would be better off sacrificing them for more attacking flair.

 

The evidence is there that we aren't better off for it.  When he's been forcibly sacrificed we have conceded by the bucket load.

[Incognito]

There must be, I don't see how such a decent squad can perform so consistently badly.

 

Our first 11 when all are fully fit would be the envy of 75% of the Premier league. Our second 11 would struggle to get out of the Championship.

 

Stoke sent Shola back 5 years ago....and he's still our best threat from the bench.

 

I think the injuries have helped Pardew's because in the fact, with everyone fit, I wouldnt trust him to select the right personnel. I don't think Sissoko or Cabaye have played in their natural positions since January, plus it seems he'll always find a spot for Jonas.

 

He always will too.  We've conceded less goals in the games Jonas plays.

 

I hate to go back to the stats but I do like to back up what I say, so here goes....

 

If you look at how long each player has spent on the pitch, and how many goals were conceded when that player was on, then it's clear the value Pardew places in Jonas...

 

Top 5

Gutierez - 58.9 minutes per goal conceded

Cabaye - 57.9

Williamson - 55.9

S Taylor - 53.9

Ben Arfa - 53.6

 

When he got injured we immediately conceded 4 at Man U then 7 at Arsenal in the next 2 games

 

The next time he missed any football was when he got dragged off against Liverpool.  we were 2 nil down then....but we conceded 4 in the second half alone without him.

 

Most would prefer our attacking players to be attacking of course, and Jonas has done nothing for us there.  But it's clear where Pardew sees his value to the team, defensively.

I find it worrying that a manager is so reliant on his left winger to not concede to 6 and 7 goal scorelines.

 

This is exactly what I was getting at. In the same way Taggart selects Welbeck in the "harder" games. It is because he is the best defensive forward they have.

[Guest Roger Kint]

So ... any news on this potential coaching hire?

 

This could actually be a good way to improve things if Pardew manages to hold on to the job.

 

Just get a really good attack minded coach, who can deal more with that side of things.

 

 

 

Peter Taylor wants to get back into coaching. Would be a decent shout to help Pardew and improve our development players too.

[Guest Dontooner]

There must be, I don't see how such a decent squad can perform so consistently badly.

 

Our first 11 when all are fully fit would be the envy of 75% of the Premier league. Our second 11 would struggle to get out of the Championship.

 

Stoke sent Shola back 5 years ago....and he's still our best threat from the bench.

 

I think the injuries have helped Pardew's because in the fact, with everyone fit, I wouldnt trust him to select the right personnel. I don't think Sissoko or Cabaye have played in their natural positions since January, plus it seems he'll always find a spot for Jonas.

 

He always will too.  We've conceded less goals in the games Jonas plays.

 

I hate to go back to the stats but I do like to back up what I say, so here goes....

 

If you look at how long each player has spent on the pitch, and how many goals were conceded when that player was on, then it's clear the value Pardew places in Jonas...

 

Top 5

Gutierez - 58.9 minutes per goal conceded

Cabaye - 57.9

Williamson - 55.9

S Taylor - 53.9

Ben Arfa - 53.6

 

When he got injured we immediately conceded 4 at Man U then 7 at Arsenal in the next 2 games

 

The next time he missed any football was when he got dragged off against Liverpool.  we were 2 nil down then....but we conceded 4 in the second half alone without him.

 

Most would prefer our attacking players to be attacking of course, and Jonas has done nothing for us there.  But it's clear where Pardew sees his value to the team, defensively.

I actually do agree Jonas involvement in the team, actually drastically reduces the amount of goals conceded. Watch the games closely , and he has done many important defensive last ditch defending.

 

That been said the recent problems of the team is not just defensive one's which Pardew prides himself in, but also on the offensive end where we are performing below par.

 

Performing as a unit, we are neither good defensively or great going forward, these are things that need to be address 1st.

 

 

[Wilson]

Seriously? That's your conclusion? Could you come round mine tomorrow morning and let me know why I'm eating breakfast? I think it's because I'm hungry but I need some stats to prove it.

 

If it's so obvious what Jonas offers, why do so many people say he's clearly wrong in playing him when fit?

 

Don't think he's wrong in playing him when fit, but he's not the right option for 90 minutes of every single game.

[Incognito]

Seriously? That's your conclusion? Could you come round mine tomorrow morning and let me know why I'm eating breakfast? I think it's because I'm hungry but I need some stats to prove it.

 

If it's so obvious what Jonas offers, why do so many people say he's clearly wrong in playing him when fit?

 

Think it's a question of whether people think the team needs his qualities or we would be better off sacrificing them for more attacking flair.

 

The evidence is there that we aren't better off for it.  When he's been forcibly sacrificed we have conceded by the bucket load.

 

Again, down to the non existant transitional play. Attack or defend. The manager has to take the blame for this.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Seriously? That's your conclusion? Could you come round mine tomorrow morning and let me know why I'm eating breakfast? I think it's because I'm hungry but I need some stats to prove it.

 

If it's so obvious what Jonas offers, why do so many people say he's clearly wrong in playing him when fit?

 

Think it's a question of whether people think the team needs his qualities or we would be better off sacrificing them for more attacking flair.

 

The evidence is there that we aren't better off for it.  When he's been forcibly sacrificed we have conceded by the bucket load.

 

True, but it could be argued that the defensive solidity could be achieved elsewhere in the team and in other ways.

 

I don't mind Jonas as an option and as long as we don't expect him to create or score much. He must be a nightmare to play against.

[Hanshithispantz]

I find it worrying that a manager is so reliant on his left winger to not concede to 6 and 7 goal scorelines.

 

Indeed.

 

Santon, Haidara or Ferguson are going to have to get their arses in gear.

I had a feeling this would be the response like, and to a point I agree. Nothing at all to do with coaching though I guess.

[Hanshithispantz]

Seriously? That's your conclusion? Could you come round mine tomorrow morning and let me know why I'm eating breakfast? I think it's because I'm hungry but I need some stats to prove it.

 

If it's so obvious what Jonas offers, why do so many people say he's clearly wrong in playing him when fit?

 

Think it's a question of whether people think the team needs his qualities or we would be better off sacrificing them for more attacking flair.

 

The evidence is there that we aren't better off for it.  When he's been forcibly sacrificed we have conceded by the bucket load.

 

True, but it could be argued that the defensive solidity could be achieved elsewhere in the team and in other ways.

This is pretty much the crux of the matter

[Happy Face]

Looking at the other end of the spectrum there is a level of 'confirmation' of which defensive players have let us down...

 

Worst 5

Tiote - 41.3 minutes per goal conceded

Sissoko - 42.7

Perch - 43.5

Marveaux - 46.7

Debuchy - 47

 

Tiote has been more of a liability than a help in shoring up our defence this season.  His mistakes seem to be getting more and more frequent.

 

Sissoko can't really be blamed.  Never played where he is used to.  Should really be playing deeper and making occasional forward runs to add to the chaos during times of pressure or when he spots a gap.

 

The others...what we all knew.

[Guest Dontooner]

Seriously? That's your conclusion? Could you come round mine tomorrow morning and let me know why I'm eating breakfast? I think it's because I'm hungry but I need some stats to prove it.

 

If it's so obvious what Jonas offers, why do so many people say he's clearly wrong in playing him when fit?

 

Think it's a question of whether people think the team needs his qualities or we would be better off sacrificing them for more attacking flair.

 

The evidence is there that we aren't better off for it.  When he's been forcibly sacrificed we have conceded by the bucket load.

That being said , we are conceding alot with him in the team as well. I can see Colo impact on the team's stability but i would not over state the importance of Jonas by too much.

A defensive manager will definitely pick Jonas week in and week out, but a more balance one would have at least rotated him.

[Rich]

Looking at the other end of the spectrum there is a level of 'confirmation' of which defensive players have let us down...

 

Worst 5

Tiote - 41.3 minutes per goal conceded

Sissoko - 42.7

Perch - 43.5

Marveaux - 46.7

Debuchy - 47

 

Tiote has been more of a liability than a help in shoring up our defence this season.  His mistakes seem to be getting more and more frequent.

 

Sissoko can't really be blamed.  Never played where he is used to.  Should really be playing deeper and making occasional forward runs to add to the chaos during times of pressure or when he spots a gap.

 

The others...what we all knew.

 

There's not much of a level of confirmation there at all, though, given the relative absence of any context.

[Flip]

Looking at the other end of the spectrum there is a level of 'confirmation' of which defensive players have let us down...

 

Worst 5

Tiote - 41.3 minutes per goal conceded

Sissoko - 42.7

Perch - 43.5

Marveaux - 46.7

Debuchy - 47

 

Tiote has been more of a liability than a help in shoring up our defence this season.  His mistakes seem to be getting more and more frequent.

 

Sissoko can't really be blamed.  Never played where he is used to.  Should really be playing deeper and making occasional forward runs to add to the chaos during times of pressure or when he spots a gap.

 

The others...what we all knew.

 

There's not much of a level of confirmation there at all, though, given the relative absence of any context.

[Hanshithispantz]

 

 

Tiote has been more of a liability than a help in shoring up our defence this season.  His mistakes seem to be getting more and more frequent.

 

Yet he still gets played every game regardless of the opposition.

[ChezGiven]

Looking at the other end of the spectrum there is a level of 'confirmation' of which defensive players have let us down...

 

Worst 5

Tiote - 41.3 minutes per goal conceded

Sissoko - 42.7

Perch - 43.5

Marveaux - 46.7

Debuchy - 47

 

Tiote has been more of a liability than a help in shoring up our defence this season.  His mistakes seem to be getting more and more frequent.

 

Sissoko can't really be blamed.  Never played where he is used to.  Should really be playing deeper and making occasional forward runs to add to the chaos during times of pressure or when he spots a gap.

 

The others...what we all knew.

 

There's not much of a level of confirmation there at all, though, given the relative absence of any context.

True, what else can we add to it?

[Guest Dontooner]

Looking at the other end of the spectrum there is a level of 'confirmation' of which defensive players have let us down...

 

Worst 5

Tiote - 41.3 minutes per goal conceded

Sissoko - 42.7

Perch - 43.5

Marveaux - 46.7

Debuchy - 47

 

Tiote has been more of a liability than a help in shoring up our defence this season.  His mistakes seem to be getting more and more frequent.

 

Sissoko can't really be blamed.  Never played where he is used to.  Should really be playing deeper and making occasional forward runs to add to the chaos during times of pressure or when he spots a gap.

 

The others...what we all knew.

Which also points to Pardew selection flaws, which he selects player not based on merits. Just because they are more aggressive and defensive.

Tiote has been a liability for much of the season but he still prefers him there because of his defensive nature of a manager.

 

The amount of misplace passes or invisible performances from Tiote has a big impact on our performances this year.

Pardew selections has been flawed this year but he repeatly make those mistakes because he believes its the way forward.

 

Not sure about others but this is worrying since the manager in charge is making glaring mistakes.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

It's possible he believes Tiote is a good player and will improve given a run of games. And also there is a lack of good alternatives if you believe a dedicated DM is needed.

[Rich]

Looking at the other end of the spectrum there is a level of 'confirmation' of which defensive players have let us down...

 

Worst 5

Tiote - 41.3 minutes per goal conceded

Sissoko - 42.7

Perch - 43.5

Marveaux - 46.7

Debuchy - 47

 

Tiote has been more of a liability than a help in shoring up our defence this season.  His mistakes seem to be getting more and more frequent.

 

Sissoko can't really be blamed.  Never played where he is used to.  Should really be playing deeper and making occasional forward runs to add to the chaos during times of pressure or when he spots a gap.

 

The others...what we all knew.

 

There's not much of a level of confirmation there at all, though, given the relative absence of any context.

True, what else can we add to it?

 

What do you reckon would qualify as "context" for a stat like that?

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

Seriously? That's your conclusion? Could you come round mine tomorrow morning and let me know why I'm eating breakfast? I think it's because I'm hungry but I need some stats to prove it.

 

If it's so obvious what Jonas offers, why do so many people say he's clearly wrong in playing him when fit?

 

Think it's a question of whether people think the team needs his qualities or we would be better off sacrificing them for more attacking flair.

 

The evidence is there that we aren't better off for it.  When he's been forcibly sacrificed we have conceded by the bucket load.

 

True, but it could be argued that the defensive solidity could be achieved elsewhere in the team and in other ways.

 

I don't mind Jonas as an option and as long as we don't expect him to create or score much. He must be a nightmare to play against.

 

HF your post is a prime example of statistics distorting truth's. Remember Tottenham not winning for an age with Bale. One does not necessarily follow the other.

 

Ian Jonas as an option offers very little other than an ability to draw fouls. His defensive contribution is declining in my opinion and he offers little to nothing going forward. It is a damning indictment on Pardew that he hasn't even been relegated to'option status'. He has been an ever-present in a terrible team.

 

The fact that we have better options may not necessarily mean they have performed better this season. However, using that to say they aren't the future is foolhardy.

[Disco]

Looking at the other end of the spectrum there is a level of 'confirmation' of which defensive players have let us down...

 

Worst 5

Tiote - 41.3 minutes per goal conceded

Sissoko - 42.7

Perch - 43.5

Marveaux - 46.7

Debuchy - 47

 

Tiote has been more of a liability than a help in shoring up our defence this season.  His mistakes seem to be getting more and more frequent.

 

Sissoko can't really be blamed.  Never played where he is used to.  Should really be playing deeper and making occasional forward runs to add to the chaos during times of pressure or when he spots a gap.

 

The others...what we all knew.

 

There's not much of a level of confirmation there at all, though, given the relative absence of any context.

True, what else can we add to it?

 

You'd have to weight it against teams played against.

[Happy Face]

Which also points to Pardew selection flaws, which he selects player not based on merits. Just because they are more aggressive and defensive.

Tiote has been a liability for much of the season but he still prefers him there because of his defensive nature of a manager.

 

The amount of misplace passes or invisible performances from Tiote has a big impact on our performances this year.

Pardew selections has been flawed this year but he repeatly make those mistakes because he believes its the way forward.

 

Not sure about others but this is worrying since the manager in charge is making glaring mistakes.

 

I'm sure this was said yesterday, but I'm not sure Tiote has ever been invisible.  He's never hidden in any game I've seen.  His problem is despite being solid for most of the game he makes errors that cost us dear.  Certainly moreso this season.

 

He's one of the internationals at the club being played where he is most comfortable though.  There is an argument that Perch has had a better season when played, so he should play.  If he made that selection choice though, the amount of grief given to Pardew on here would be unreal. Guaranteed.