Guest bimpy474 Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Wahey, still going on It's marginally better than watching NUFC at the minute Aye Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Wahey, still going on It's marginally better than watching NUFC at the minute Aye Whats gone on like? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 The problem with having an opinion that differs to the majority, is that your reasons for having that opinion are magically turned into 'woolly' points, 'waffle', or just completely stricken from the record and forgotten. That rewriting is then used as a stick to beat you with. Take last night for example, I've given perfectly legitimate 'football reasons' for why I felt ever so slightly more optimistic than before the game. Those very same reasons have been repeated by a fair few. Yet, they're glossed over and I'm accused of being smug and condescending, by someone being smug and condescending. All without a hint of irony. I can live with it, though, and it won't effect me personally. Interpolic style breakdowns, or being genuinely rattled on a forum is a bit of an alien concept to me. It's just not important. It's somewhere to vent, and laugh at thick people and overcompensating foreigners. People take it all too seriously, and personally, and revel in their 'stature'. No opinion of mine will change that, but I've been around long enough to know I'll keep coming back and, most of the time, enjoying it. Rarely do i post on this forum these days, this is great thread but you, chap, are one hell of a fucking moaning, annoying irritant. You're not wrong, I can't argue with that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan_Taylor Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 This thread Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raconteur Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Is it revisionism to say that "Pardew's 5th place" was ridiculously lucky? My memory isn't what it used to be, but my biggest memories of last year are watching games or reading match reports and match threads that were all about how lucky we were or about how poorly we played but still collectes the point/s? The only reason luck sticks in my memory is because in all of my time as a Toon supporter I simply cannot remember any form of luck smiling upon us. In fact, it seems to be shit luck followed by more shit luck - kinda like our ridiculously constant injury crises... His doubters have pointed to his record of initial success followed by complete failure; it seems he is at least consistent... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 It's totally unfair to say it was all about luck, but Pardew's ability was certainly supplemented in a big way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Is it revisionism to say that "Pardew's 5th place" was ridiculously lucky? My memory isn't what it used to be, but my biggest memories of last year are watching games or reading match reports and match threads that were all about how lucky we were or about how poorly we played but still collectes the point/s? The only reason luck sticks in my memory is because in all of my time as a Toon supporter I simply cannot remember any form of luck smiling upon us. In fact, it seems to be shit luck followed by more shit luck - kinda like our ridiculously constant injury crises... His doubters have pointed to his record of initial success followed by complete failure; it seems he is at least consistent... You don't get lucky over a whole season imo, just things go right for you. Our injury record was pretty decent and Pardew's one and only plan worked. We managed to be very solid at the back for the majority so this took the pressure off getting goals a little. We had two forwards who had a ridiculous goal to game ratio for half a season each which meant we could pick up a lot of points. The defence has fallen apart this season and Pardew doesn't have enough in his locker to compensate for this, if you are struggling to keep clean sheets you really need to score more goals but instead we have just put more effort into getting that solidity back and it's not worked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nixon Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Is Alan Pardew a bad manager? No. Is he the right manager this football club? No. I struggle to truly believe that he would have been able to guide us to fifth if he had no semblance of managerial ability. It just doesn't work like that. He's had team's promoted, he's had success. He's also had abject failure normally around the same time he's having it with us. It's that period just after the initial spell when things begin to evolve and diversify. For all our stellar performances last year, tactically it was quite rudimentary. Two midfielders, one combative, one creative. Two centre-backs, one a bit more cultured, one a bit more aggressive and forthright. However as soon as Yohan Cabaye spoke of how Pardew wanted to play it along the ground he was ultimately doomed. To play that style you need competent technicians throughout the squad, an understanding amongst your players, and a tactical ideology on what channels/avenues you want to play the ball through. Essentially Pardew has become confused by so many options. It was a bit like Big Sam here when we gave him a lot of money to spend. He'd never been used to that. He was always quite thrifty and picked up parsimonious options. As a consequence it meant if they failed then the outlay was minimal and they were swept under the rug (Mario Jardel, Jared Borgetti at Bolton for example). If they succeeded (like Ivan Campo, Fernando Hierro) then he was a smart shopper who used his minimal budget wisely. Yet present him with actual money and he gets the likes of Alan Smith, David Rozenhal and more recently Matt Jarvis. The truth of the matter is, had we afforded Pardew control of transfers we'd actually not be in as much trouble. That's not me mitigating the form, more saying that his style does not run parallel with the aims and goals of our current playing stuff and ownership. A team like West Ham is far more akin to what Pardew wants. A direct side with just a dash of self-proliferated misnomer about being more than that. That side would also be incredibly well-drilled, something he hasn't been allowed to do this year. Mainly because of Europe and injuries he's had less time on the training pitch with his strongest players, so consequently his flaws as a manager (lack of tactical response) have shone through. His inability to lay plans has seen him placed in a constant position of expression or regression. Routinely he's taken the latter and gone long ball. The fact the club are now so delicately poised on the cusp of relegation has everyone worried because this is a talented squad, regardless of when the players arrived they should not be this close to the precipice. The whole issue has been compounded by the likes of Mauricio Pochettino swanning in and revolutionising Southampton. As we've seen, his changes are not just a consequence of the new manager bump. They're considered tactical movements that have allowed him to draw out the key skills of the players at his disposal. I think given our side, he'd drop Tiote for Anita and we'd arguably be in a better place than Southampton are right now purely because we have better technical defenders. Sadly that's a digression for another time, hopefully when our Premier League safety is secured. I think while all the infighting and bickering ensues, there is one underlying consensus amongst fans, Alan Pardew is not the right man to lead this club. We need someone with a far more intricate approach and who understands how to use the skills available to highlight the opponent's weaknesses. Of course he's a bad manager, take a look at his CV and you'll see that this season isn't a one off. He seems to get managerial jobs, get his feet under the table then screws up. How is that anything other than being a bad manager? How can you claim that he's not a bad manager then partly explain why he is a bad manager? How can you claim that if he was afforded control of transfers we wouldn't be in as much trouble? Purely because he would have bought players conducive to the style he works best under. We'd have players who can play it long and be direct. The current crop simply can't. Cissé isn't a target man. He's a poacher. That means you need to feed him the ball facing goal to get a return. We did that once yesterday and it saw us score a legitimate goal. There was a moment last week against Liverpool in the first half. A quick interchange with Cabaye and I think Sissoko. It bypassed about 3 Liverpool players and we were in on their defence. That is basically the style we need to be playing with our players. Sadly saying that isn't enough, you actually need to coach them how, when, and where to move to do it. Not because they're idiots, but because the movement relates to the shape of the side and how to generate space. If he had control of the transfer side the change wouldn't have been so drastic. I appreciate it sounds like I'm trying to mitigate his entire season, I'm not. Instead I believe that we asked a manager to do something he has never done in his career and isn't set up to do. Maybe he could have learned it. Old dogs new tricks, but if we'd been a bit slower with our transition we might have not seen such highs and lows (a bit like Villa this season). A bad manager doesn't earn promotion. Perhaps in the context of long term options he's bad, but just generally, he's mediocre. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Is Alan Pardew a bad manager? No. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Stopped exactly here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themanupstairs Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Haven't checked yet, but my gut feeling is that he took HBA off when Wigan were still losing thinking we'll be going a point further away from them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 The problem with having an opinion that differs to the majority, is that your reasons for having that opinion are magically turned into 'woolly' points, 'waffle', or just completely stricken from the record and forgotten. can you go back to one of your many posts in the relegationometer thread and find clearly defined football reasons you stated in the forum as to why we'd not get dragged in? it may be you did and i missed them but i honestly only remember you thinking we "had enough" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 +5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Purely because he would have bought players conducive to the style he works best under. We'd have players who can play it long and be direct. The current crop simply can't. Cissé isn't a target man. He's a poacher. That means you need to feed him the ball facing goal to get a return. We did that once yesterday and it saw us score a legitimate goal. There was a moment last week against Liverpool in the first half. A quick interchange with Cabaye and I think Sissoko. It bypassed about 3 Liverpool players and we were in on their defence. That is basically the style we need to be playing with our players. Sadly saying that isn't enough, you actually need to coach them how, when, and where to move to do it. Not because they're idiots, but because the movement relates to the shape of the side and how to generate space. If he had control of the transfer side the change wouldn't have been so drastic. I appreciate it sounds like I'm trying to mitigate his entire season, I'm not. Instead I believe that we asked a manager to do something he has never done in his career and isn't set up to do. Maybe he could have learned it. Old dogs new tricks, but if we'd been a bit slower with our transition we might have not seen such highs and lows (a bit like Villa this season). A bad manager doesn't earn promotion. Perhaps in the context of long term options he's bad, but just generally, he's mediocre. We're his 5th club and he hasn't sustained anything at any of those clubs and I'm sure he would have had more say in transfers than he has here. His record here reflects his past so we're not a one off which should be simply dismissed as one, whether he’s a bad manager or just a mediocre manager is splitting hairs and neither of us really need waste our time on trying to work out which one he is. Simply put, he’s not good enough and should piss off and the sooner he goes the better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 He wasn't hand picked for his managerial abilities. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 He wasn't hand picked for his managerial abilities. And there we have it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 The problem with having an opinion that differs to the majority, is that your reasons for having that opinion are magically turned into 'woolly' points, 'waffle', or just completely stricken from the record and forgotten. can you go back to one of your many posts in the relegationometer thread and find clearly defined football reasons you stated in the forum as to why we'd not get dragged in? it may be you did and i missed them but i honestly only remember you thinking we "had enough" No. At the time, I wasn't arguing that we 'wouldn't' get dragged in, but rather that it was daft to be certain of relegation at that stage of the season. I've been through this with you privately. As far as I remember, my reasons included better players returning from injury, strengthening the team, and a quickly fading memory of the football we were capable of. I'd have got away with it too, if it wasn't for that pesky manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider Jerusalem Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Is Alan Pardew a bad manager? No. Sorry i stopped reading after that line I continued to the next line and when it wasn't 'Is he an appalling manager, chancer and a fraud? Yes' that's where I chose to stop reading. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 The problem with having an opinion that differs to the majority, is that your reasons for having that opinion are magically turned into 'woolly' points, 'waffle', or just completely stricken from the record and forgotten. can you go back to one of your many posts in the relegationometer thread and find clearly defined football reasons you stated in the forum as to why we'd not get dragged in? it may be you did and i missed them but i honestly only remember you thinking we "had enough" No. At the time, I wasn't arguing that we 'wouldn't' get dragged in, but rather that it was daft to be certain of relegation at that stage of the season. I've been through this with you privately. As far as I remember, my reasons included better players returning from injury, strengthening the team, and a quickly fading memory of the football we were capable of. I'd have got away with it too, if it wasn't for that pesky manager. aye that's right, remember now...nowt wrong with that tbh, i truly have no idea where the air of positivity came from though having seen what we saw prior to him getting the new players in jan and how quickly they seemed to succumb to pardew's touch it's obviously just how people look at games but i always look at games for areas to improve even when you win, that's how great managers are great...therefore i was sat at the chelsea match (my first in 2 years) caught up in an enthralling game but it didn't stop me from picking massive holes in the way we played at the time...and that was arguably our best performance of the season EDIT: what i'm trying to say there is some people see that as doom-mongering to the extreme, but at the end of the day it's only when you run out of things to criticise in our performances that we're going to be a good team...if you approach every game from a position of unbounded optimism you're sowing the seeds for failure - or something Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Can't argue with any of that. I've since had to eat a lot of my words and realise my confidence was misplaced. I can't go back and change it, but I won't stop being a relatively positive person. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Can't argue with any of that. I've since had to eat a lot of my words and realise my confidence was misplaced. I can't go back and change it, but I won't stop being a relatively positive person. I won't say I'm the most positive person in the world tbh but I cannot really see the joy in relentless negativity at the moment, but each to their own. I can either go into QPR thinking we're going to win, because they're shit, or I can convince myself that we'll lose, because we're shit. All in the name of proving a point, fuck it, we'll win, no reason at all why we won't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishMagpie Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Just read his post match comments on BBC website.. What a load of shite. "Wigan still have to beat swansea and then win another game..." From what I can see they're 3 points behind us with a +1 better goal difference. If they win on Tuesday and we both loose our last two games they could stay up without another win. Pardew thinks 6 points will see us safe. Agree with his maths this time but ....mmm... have to go back to march to see us last win two in a row. He's gonna have to work some kinda magic at QPR cos I don't want to go in to the last gave v le arse needing 3 points. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 The problem with having an opinion that differs to the majority, is that your reasons for having that opinion are magically turned into 'woolly' points, 'waffle', or just completely stricken from the record and forgotten. can you go back to one of your many posts in the relegationometer thread and find clearly defined football reasons you stated in the forum as to why we'd not get dragged in? it may be you did and i missed them but i honestly only remember you thinking we "had enough" No. At the time, I wasn't arguing that we 'wouldn't' get dragged in, but rather that it was daft to be certain of relegation at that stage of the season. I've been through this with you privately. As far as I remember, my reasons included better players returning from injury, strengthening the team, and a quickly fading memory of the football we were capable of. I'd have got away with it too, if it wasn't for that pesky manager. And it was daft to be certain we wouldn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dontooner Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 The problem with having an opinion that differs to the majority, is that your reasons for having that opinion are magically turned into 'woolly' points, 'waffle', or just completely stricken from the record and forgotten. That rewriting is then used as a stick to beat you with. Take last night for example, I've given perfectly legitimate 'football reasons' for why I felt ever so slightly more optimistic than before the game. Those very same reasons have been repeated by a fair few. Yet, they're glossed over and I'm accused of being smug and condescending, by someone being smug and condescending. All without a hint of irony. I can live with it, though, and it won't effect me personally. Interpolic style breakdowns, or being genuinely rattled on a forum is a bit of an alien concept to me. It's just not important. It's somewhere to vent, and laugh at thick people and overcompensating foreigners. People take it all too seriously, and personally, and revel in their 'stature'. No opinion of mine will change that, but I've been around long enough to know I'll keep coming back and, most of the time, enjoying it. Think the forum can certainly tell who is being a "Moaning Bitch" . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Wahey, still going on It's marginally better than watching NUFC at the minute Aye Whats gone on like? Well it was a magnificent ping pong game of wills, wits and sheer stupidity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi_D Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Is Alan Pardew a bad manager? No. Is he the right manager this football club? No. I struggle to truly believe that he would have been able to guide us to fifth if he had no semblance of managerial ability. It just doesn't work like that. He's had team's promoted, he's had success. He's also had abject failure normally around the same time he's having it with us. It's that period just after the initial spell when things begin to evolve and diversify. For all our stellar performances last year, tactically it was quite rudimentary. Two midfielders, one combative, one creative. Two centre-backs, one a bit more cultured, one a bit more aggressive and forthright. However as soon as Yohan Cabaye spoke of how Pardew wanted to play it along the ground he was ultimately doomed. To play that style you need competent technicians throughout the squad, an understanding amongst your players, and a tactical ideology on what channels/avenues you want to play the ball through. Essentially Pardew has become confused by so many options. It was a bit like Big Sam here when we gave him a lot of money to spend. He'd never been used to that. He was always quite thrifty and picked up parsimonious options. As a consequence it meant if they failed then the outlay was minimal and they were swept under the rug (Mario Jardel, Jared Borgetti at Bolton for example). If they succeeded (like Ivan Campo, Fernando Hierro) then he was a smart shopper who used his minimal budget wisely. Yet present him with actual money and he gets the likes of Alan Smith, David Rozenhal and more recently Matt Jarvis. The truth of the matter is, had we afforded Pardew control of transfers we'd actually not be in as much trouble. That's not me mitigating the form, more saying that his style does not run parallel with the aims and goals of our current playing stuff and ownership. A team like West Ham is far more akin to what Pardew wants. A direct side with just a dash of self-proliferated misnomer about being more than that. That side would also be incredibly well-drilled, something he hasn't been allowed to do this year. Mainly because of Europe and injuries he's had less time on the training pitch with his strongest players, so consequently his flaws as a manager (lack of tactical response) have shone through. His inability to lay plans has seen him placed in a constant position of expression or regression. Routinely he's taken the latter and gone long ball. The fact the club are now so delicately poised on the cusp of relegation has everyone worried because this is a talented squad, regardless of when the players arrived they should not be this close to the precipice. The whole issue has been compounded by the likes of Mauricio Pochettino swanning in and revolutionising Southampton. As we've seen, his changes are not just a consequence of the new manager bump. They're considered tactical movements that have allowed him to draw out the key skills of the players at his disposal. I think given our side, he'd drop Tiote for Anita and we'd arguably be in a better place than Southampton are right now purely because we have better technical defenders. Sadly that's a digression for another time, hopefully when our Premier League safety is secured. I think while all the infighting and bickering ensues, there is one underlying consensus amongst fans, Alan Pardew is not the right man to lead this club. We need someone with a far more intricate approach and who understands how to use the skills available to highlight the opponent's weaknesses. Great post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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