Dave Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 @GKGuruWoody Europa League STRIKES again!!!!!!! No coincidence!!!! Oh dear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 what a fucking pleb Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 I thought Woody was meant to have decent craic? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 I like how they haven't mentioned it after they've all won after european games recently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 It's just like when they beat West Brom away 3 days after losing in Romania, or when they beat Palace away 3 days after beating Valencia away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Wigan's result doesn't count I assume. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 williamson vs. suarez & sturridge pardew's not that daft is he? He's done it before so yes he is that daft. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 @GKGuruWoody Europa League STRIKES again!!!!!!! No coincidence!!!! Oh dear. What a cunt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maze Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 I'm not a fan of Pardew, however, I really don't think sacking him at this time would be the right move. I would just foresee another average manager being appointed with average to poor results following an initial burst of false optimism. The primary problem for me is Ashley and the environment he creates for his managers to operate in. From bringing in Joe Kinnear (twice), to Dennis Wise, to two disappointing summers in the transfer market, to failing to connect with and understand the supporters........I just think Ashley is a man who doesn't understand football, doesn't understand the fans, and either doesn't have good people around him to advise on football matters or is too arrogant to listen to those people he appoints to deal with the running of the club. Bringing in Wise was a horrible idea. Bringing in Kinnear was a horrible idea. Whether or not behind the scenes these relationships are actually bearing some fruit (in our case I heavily doubt it), at the very least, in British football, such appointments always lead to bad PR for the club, awkward questions for the manager and surely puts doubt in the mind of players and managers (both current players and potential future signings/managers) as to whether they would want to be a part of a club that has an air of unpredictability and division about it. Until Ashley shows a bit more leadership quality, an ability to promote Newcastle as a club that is very much together from the chairman to the manager to the players to the fans........then I just think this environment is simply going to lead to one failed manager after another. For the last 10 years we've been in the main a bottom half of the table club, and have even been relegated.........our problems are longstanding and certainly don't begin and end with Alan Pardew. Agree for the most part. Mike Ashley is the main problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattoon Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 I'm not a fan of Pardew, however, I really don't think sacking him at this time would be the right move. I would just foresee another average manager being appointed with average to poor results following an initial burst of false optimism. The primary problem for me is Ashley and the environment he creates for his managers to operate in. From bringing in Joe Kinnear (twice), to Dennis Wise, to two disappointing summers in the transfer market, to failing to connect with and understand the supporters........I just think Ashley is a man who doesn't understand football, doesn't understand the fans, and either doesn't have good people around him to advise on football matters or is too arrogant to listen to those people he appoints to deal with the running of the club. Bringing in Wise was a horrible idea. Bringing in Kinnear was a horrible idea. Whether or not behind the scenes these relationships are actually bearing some fruit (in our case I heavily doubt it), at the very least, in British football, such appointments always lead to bad PR for the club, awkward questions for the manager and surely puts doubt in the mind of players and managers (both current players and potential future signings/managers) as to whether they would want to be a part of a club that has an air of unpredictability and division about it. Until Ashley shows a bit more leadership quality, an ability to promote Newcastle as a club that is very much together from the chairman to the manager to the players to the fans........then I just think this environment is simply going to lead to one failed manager after another. For the last 10 years we've been in the main a bottom half of the table club, and have even been relegated.........our problems are longstanding and certainly don't begin and end with Alan Pardew. Agree for the most part. Mike Ashley is the main problem. Aye, Pardew is a symptom, Ashley is the disease. Canning Pardew for the most part is akin to sticking a plaster on it, it'll work for now but won't make it go away. Cut the cancer out at the root and it'll all get better! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 I'm not a fan of Pardew, however, I really don't think sacking him at this time would be the right move. I would just foresee another average manager being appointed with average to poor results following an initial burst of false optimism. The primary problem for me is Ashley and the environment he creates for his managers to operate in. From bringing in Joe Kinnear (twice), to Dennis Wise, to two disappointing summers in the transfer market, to failing to connect with and understand the supporters........I just think Ashley is a man who doesn't understand football, doesn't understand the fans, and either doesn't have good people around him to advise on football matters or is too arrogant to listen to those people he appoints to deal with the running of the club. Bringing in Wise was a horrible idea. Bringing in Kinnear was a horrible idea. Whether or not behind the scenes these relationships are actually bearing some fruit (in our case I heavily doubt it), at the very least, in British football, such appointments always lead to bad PR for the club, awkward questions for the manager and surely puts doubt in the mind of players and managers (both current players and potential future signings/managers) as to whether they would want to be a part of a club that has an air of unpredictability and division about it. Until Ashley shows a bit more leadership quality, an ability to promote Newcastle as a club that is very much together from the chairman to the manager to the players to the fans........then I just think this environment is simply going to lead to one failed manager after another. For the last 10 years we've been in the main a bottom half of the table club, and have even been relegated.........our problems are longstanding and certainly don't begin and end with Alan Pardew. Agree for the most part. Mike Ashley is the main problem. Aye, Pardew is a symptom, Ashley is the disease. Canning Pardew for the most part is akin to sticking a plaster on it, it'll work for now but won't make it go away. Cut the cancer out at the root and it'll all get better! Who sticks a plaster on cancer, like? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 I'm not a fan of Pardew, however, I really don't think sacking him at this time would be the right move. I would just foresee another average manager being appointed with average to poor results following an initial burst of false optimism. The primary problem for me is Ashley and the environment he creates for his managers to operate in. From bringing in Joe Kinnear (twice), to Dennis Wise, to two disappointing summers in the transfer market, to failing to connect with and understand the supporters........I just think Ashley is a man who doesn't understand football, doesn't understand the fans, and either doesn't have good people around him to advise on football matters or is too arrogant to listen to those people he appoints to deal with the running of the club. Bringing in Wise was a horrible idea. Bringing in Kinnear was a horrible idea. Whether or not behind the scenes these relationships are actually bearing some fruit (in our case I heavily doubt it), at the very least, in British football, such appointments always lead to bad PR for the club, awkward questions for the manager and surely puts doubt in the mind of players and managers (both current players and potential future signings/managers) as to whether they would want to be a part of a club that has an air of unpredictability and division about it. Until Ashley shows a bit more leadership quality, an ability to promote Newcastle as a club that is very much together from the chairman to the manager to the players to the fans........then I just think this environment is simply going to lead to one failed manager after another. For the last 10 years we've been in the main a bottom half of the table club, and have even been relegated.........our problems are longstanding and certainly don't begin and end with Alan Pardew. Well, yes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 I'm not a fan of Pardew, however, I really don't think sacking him at this time would be the right move. I would just foresee another average manager being appointed with average to poor results following an initial burst of false optimism. The primary problem for me is Ashley and the environment he creates for his managers to operate in. From bringing in Joe Kinnear (twice), to Dennis Wise, to two disappointing summers in the transfer market, to failing to connect with and understand the supporters........I just think Ashley is a man who doesn't understand football, doesn't understand the fans, and either doesn't have good people around him to advise on football matters or is too arrogant to listen to those people he appoints to deal with the running of the club. Bringing in Wise was a horrible idea. Bringing in Kinnear was a horrible idea. Whether or not behind the scenes these relationships are actually bearing some fruit (in our case I heavily doubt it), at the very least, in British football, such appointments always lead to bad PR for the club, awkward questions for the manager and surely puts doubt in the mind of players and managers (both current players and potential future signings/managers) as to whether they would want to be a part of a club that has an air of unpredictability and division about it. Until Ashley shows a bit more leadership quality, an ability to promote Newcastle as a club that is very much together from the chairman to the manager to the players to the fans........then I just think this environment is simply going to lead to one failed manager after another. For the last 10 years we've been in the main a bottom half of the table club, and have even been relegated.........our problems are longstanding and certainly don't begin and end with Alan Pardew. Agree for the most part. Mike Ashley is the main problem. Aye, Pardew is a symptom, Ashley is the disease. Canning Pardew for the most part is akin to sticking a plaster on it, it'll work for now but won't make it go away. Cut the cancer out at the root and it'll all get better! It's not that simple, unfortunately - this particular cancer has got a firm grip on the body of the patient and it is going to take some as yet unknown cure to rectify this before the patient eventually expires. Unfortunately, those who profess to love the patient still think that a watch and see policy will help, but all that is doing is to allow the cancer to strengthen its grip..! Unless a new cure materialises suddenly and quickly, it is hard to see how the patient will recover...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 I think we've stretched this as far as it'll go lads Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Extended cancer metaphors? Just another monday morning in the Pardew thread! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Extended cancer metaphors? Just another monday morning in the Pardew thread! I was expecting an upbeat forum after a win Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 i don't think the effects of a European campain are as immediate as losing on a Sunday following a game on Thursday. Has anyone actually compared the proportion of points clubs win in the game following a euro fixture compared with their overall season average, to see if there is a drop off that obvious, rather than this sort of anecdotal "Swansea lost but Wigan won" sort of gubbins? ? I looked at the effect on overall seasons since the Europa began and the the trend is for a worse performance, but it is almost insignificant when when you remove Newcastle from the data. Average positions lost - 1.6 Average positions lost without NUFC skew - 0.8 Average points lost - 2.25 Average points lost without NUFC skew - 0.27 I also wondered what happened when you remove teams like Man City, Spurs and Liverpool who have the set-up to cope with a europa league campaign. What's the trend for the likes of Stoke Fulham, Villa and Everton with/without NUFC? Average positions lost - 3.4 Average positions lost without NUFC skew - 2.2 Average points lost - 6.4 Average points lost without NUFC skew - 3.5 Cleary there is a more pronounced drop in performance levels among the teams that can't afford the investment to maintain standards during a Euro campaign, but Newcastle have been by far the worst contributor to that trend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 You're assuming these points dropped have occurred because of the European campaign. More likely these teams dropped back to their normal levels after having a good campaign the year before, or they had changes in managers and players. I would argue that those other factors far outweigh any potential negative effect of a European campaign. If you had a big enough sample size and did a regression, you wouldn't find anything that is statistically significant, I'm certain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 I think you mean won't afford, not can't afford. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 I seem to remember us doing well under Sir Bobby following our Champions League matches, which of course was against a far higher standard of opposition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 A better analysis would be if you actually looked at total matches played in a season. I'm sure a match in Europe isn't significantly more tiring than a league cup match, so teams which have extended cup runs domestically should also suffer from this, assuming your theory is correct. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 You're assuming these points dropped have occurred because of the European campaign. More likely these teams dropped back to their normal levels after having a good campaign the year before, or they had changes in managers and players. I would argue that those other factors far outweigh any potential negative effect of a European campaign. If you had a big enough sample size and did a regression, you wouldn't find anything that is statistically significant, I'm certain. Well this is just pure assumption though. Common sense seems to suggest that flying round the world, having less time to prepare, and playing extra games would make for a tougher season. It's not an excuse for how badly we did, but I don't understand why people spend so long denying that the effect exists. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 There are also other factors such as successful cup runs negating the importance of league positions, like Fulham resting players for their league matches during their run. We on the other hand rested loads of players in Europe but still suffered in the league. Look at the amount of time our best players actually played in Europe and compare it to a team that has a normal domestic cup run and you won't find much difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 You're assuming these points dropped have occurred because of the European campaign. More likely these teams dropped back to their normal levels after having a good campaign the year before, or they had changes in managers and players. I would argue that those other factors far outweigh any potential negative effect of a European campaign. If you had a big enough sample size and did a regression, you wouldn't find anything that is statistically significant, I'm certain. Absolutely, correlation is not necessarilly causation. There are a multitude of factors on how a season goes for a club. However, I think clubs tend to make the same sorts of mistakes, either not investing at all or spending too high on mercenary players or keeping a manager on for too long based on the finish he achieved the season prior. that sort of thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 You're assuming these points dropped have occurred because of the European campaign. More likely these teams dropped back to their normal levels after having a good campaign the year before, or they had changes in managers and players. I would argue that those other factors far outweigh any potential negative effect of a European campaign. If you had a big enough sample size and did a regression, you wouldn't find anything that is statistically significant, I'm certain. Well this is just pure assumption though. Common sense seems to suggest that flying round the world, having less time to prepare, and playing extra games would make for a tougher season. It's not an excuse for how badly we did, but I don't understand why people spend so long denying that the effect exists. Our best players didn't play, though. Flying all around the world? You mean a three hour flight instead of a three hour bus ride? Having less time to prepare? Same applies to teams that have domestic cup runs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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