South American football

[Guest Craig-NUFC]

The fuck are SSN doing using pundits who know what they're talking about?

 

Strange actually seeing Tim. I'm a fan of his use of hand gestures like he's talking to someone who can't speak English.

[Ketsbaia]

Vickery is class, like. Instead of just saying "This player is good, cliché, asset to the Barclays Premier League, cliché...." he's talking about philosophies and the politics of getting a spot in the Brazil team. He educates.

[Flip]

Wow now I know who the portuguese speaking englishman is. Have a  lot of time over for him, seems to know a fair deal about what he's talking about.

[Disco]

Lives in Sao Paulo if I remember rightly, even pronounces the names correctly - imagine that.

[Flip]

Lives in Sao Paulo if I remember rightly, even pronounces the names correctly - imagine that.

 

He speaks very good portuguese and is sometimes invited on a Brazilian football talk show during the days. Definitely seems to know his stuff, but that's what happens when you live in Brazil.

[Flip]

We talk about Benny lad, but this guy with almost 100kg to his name is playing extremely well for Goias in Brazil and scoring a lot of goals. Belongs to Porto if I'm not completely mistaken. Scored last night to draw against Flamengo.

 

http://p1-cdn.trrsf.com/image/fget/cf/619/464/images.terra.com/2013/08/08/waltercomemoracarloscostafp.jpg

[Disco]

Looks about 40 n all

[Flip]

''Come on Disco, fuck have I done to you?'' 24btw..

 

http://oledobrasil.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/walter.jpg

[Flip]

Some updates from Brazilian league where 50% of the season has been played:

 

Sao Paulo and Fluminense not playing well and both find themselves in a relegation battle halfway through the season. Cruzeiro has hit form with 9 wins in last 11 and have a four point cushion to second placed Botafogo (where Seedorf is the league leader in assists with 7).  Santos have improved since Muricy left them (and who took over Sao Paulo again couple of days back) and have couple of interesting young players playing well. Alex ex-Fenerbache has scored 9 goals and is probably the best player in the league at the moment while Messis cousin Bianchucci has 8 goals for Vitoria who after a great start to the season have seen form decline and so has the Fatso Walter up top as well.

 

Jô scored three against Coritiba the other day (which were his first goals in the league), which is understandable considering he's been with the national team and has played quite a few in the Libertadores whcih they won.

 

In Argentina Racing Club and ex-Juve Camoranesi are placed last after a tough start to the season with zero wins in the first six matches.  Boca and River have mixed results with Boca with 9p from six and River with 7 from as many. Argentinos Juniors are leading the league.

[Disco]

Yet Racing have pretty much no chance of going down while Argentinos do Argentinos got battered last night n all. 4-0.

 

Colo's San Lorenzo are going strong, probably my outside tip for the league.

 

Did you know Cruzeiro play Botafogo on the final day Flipper? Could be a grandstand final day as in recent years.

[Flip]

Yet Racing have pretty much no chance of going down while Argentinos do Argentinos got battered last night n all. 4-0.

 

Colo's San Lorenzo are going strong, probably my outside tip for the league.

 

Did you know Cruzeiro play Botafogo on the final day Flipper? Could be a grandstand final day as in recent years.

 

The Argentinian league system is so messed up, I think the Mexican is far worse though where owners can buy clubs and move them to whatever cities they want Like Ashley moving Newcastle to London.

 

Had no idea about the Cruzeiro and Botafogo game and it would be great, still doubt both teams will be going as strong at the end of the season. Especially Cruzeiro who are on fire at the moment. 11wins from last 14 is amazing for the Brazilian league and I wonder if anyone has ever had as good results as them over 14 games.

 

My lovely Corinthians can't seem to score or concede. Such a boring tactical team...19 goals and only 9 conceded in 20 games.

[Tooj]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24107942

 

I had to feel sorry for a Botafogo fan sitting near the press box in a match in the Maracana last week. He had splashed out on an official shirt - which would not have been cheap - and emblazoned on the back was '31 Vitinho'.

 

The object of his admiration was an excellent addition to the Botafogo first team - while he was there. Spearheaded by Clarence Seedorf, they continue to enjoy a splendid campaign. With the Brazilian Championship just past the halfway stage, the Rio club are second, and face an important game this Wednesday away to leaders Cruzeiro.

 

Seedorf has proved a magnificent signing. When the former Netherlands international arrived little more than a year ago, even coach Oswaldo de Oliveira was unsure where he would fit in the wide open spaces of Brazilian midfields.

 

In the event, Seedorf has stamped his talent and personality on the club to such an extent that the game takes place wherever he might be. He can drift all across the midfield line in the team's loose 4-2-3-1 system. He can drop deep to organise. And he even spends some time in the centre-forward slot. But wherever he is, Seedorf is at the centre of the action.

 

Of course, he needs to be housed in a suitable line-up. And with Botafogo, as with all clubs who play a 4-2-3-1 formation, things work much better with a speed merchant in the line of three. If not, there is a danger that all the play with take place in front of the opposing defence - with no one to crash through it.

 

This was where Vitinho came in. Raw but strong and skilful, the 19-year-old from Rio supplied the speed to latch on to Seedorf's defence-splitting passes. In his debut campaign, he was making a big impression. But before the championship reached halfway - and shortly after our friend in the stands invested in a shirt with his name on it - he was sold.

 

CSKA Moscow came in with a bid. Their offer of 10 million Euros covered his buy-out clause. The Russian club offered a sizeable salary increase. And to Botafogo's consternation (they only owned 60% of him, and accumulated debts make it unlikely they will see any of their share of the fee), Vitinho was off.

 

Some of their supporters were outraged, and scrawled slogans of protest on the club walls. But just over two weeks later, no is protesting any more. It seems as if Botafogo have been able to clone their new star. Exit Vitinho, enter Hyuri.

 

A few days ago, Hyuri was not even a household name in his own home. After four games and three wonderful goals, the 21-year-old is Botafogo's new idol. In post-match interviews, he comes across as thoughtful and intelligent, attributes which will be a big help as he comes to terms with his new status. The club will have to mass produce shirts with his name and number 17 on the back, because there will be a demand for them.

 

This story is a testament to Brazilian football's unrivalled capacity to renew itself by continually throwing up new players. Part of this is due to the constant selling. After all, Vitinho grabbed his opportunity after Botafogo sold attacking midfielders Andrezinho and Fellype Gabriel. The sale of Vitinho opens up space for Hyuri.

 

The positive side of this, for a young player, is that there is a good chance of first-team opportunities. The negative is that he can be treated like a commodity. Both Vitinho and Hyuri, for example, were groomed by a Rio club started a few years ago by a supermarket.

 

Paulinho, now of Tottenham, began with the Sao Paulo version of the same project - and found himself quickly in Europe, with spells in Lithuania and Poland proving so unhappy that he considered giving up the game.

 

The young South American can find himself under pressure from agents and investors, often his club and sometimes even close family members, to jump at the first money-making offer that comes along, regardless of the long-term consequences for his career.

 

The promising young British player faces a different set of circumstances. This Thursday, for example, Tottenham begin their Europa League group campaign with a home game against Tromso of Norway. At the end of August, I was at White Hart Lane to see them guarantee their place with an 8-0 aggregate win over Dinamo Tbilisi. The second leg featured an eye-catching performance from slightly-built midfielder Tom Carroll, who passed the ball quickly and intelligently with his splendid left foot. His clever lay back set up a goal for Lewis Holtby.

 

If he came from Rio rather than Watford, Carroll would probably be a first-team regular with a major local club, and wonderkid status would have been bestowed upon him - with all of the opportunities and problems this can bring.

 

Instead, now that Tottenham's Europa League bid starts in earnest, he is elsewhere. Expensive signings Erik Lamela and Christian Eriksen have been brought in and, lower down the pecking order, Carroll has been loaned out for the third time in his brief career, this time to Queen's Park Rangers. Such moves can help give a player experience. But they can also stall a career, as his new team have no stake in his long-term development.

 

Things may have happened too fast for Vitinho, or it could be that the chances have come at the right time. Tom Carroll may have been held back, or is perhaps he is being brought along at exactly the correct speed. Only time will tell. No one size approach fits all. But their starting point has a major effect on their journey.

[Flip]

:thup:

[Belfast Mags]

Read that the other day, good article

[Tooj]

What time GMT is the Superclásico tomorrow night?

[Disco]

10:15 I think.

[Flip]

Cruzeiro is on an absolute roll.

[Tooj]

How's Dede done since he went there?

[Flip]

How's Dede done since he went there?

 

Well they can't seem to lose with him in the side, so you try and figure that one out

[Tooj]

Aren't they scoring a shed load of goals though? So not sure how much Dede contributes to that. 

[Flip]

Aren't they scoring a shed load of goals though? So not sure how much Dede contributes to that. 

 

True, but yes he's been a beast, looking like the player he was in 2011.

[Tooj]

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11095/8969233/

 

River Plate have placed a €15million (£12.7m) asking price on central defender Eder Alvarez Balanta after he was linked with a move to Barcelona.

 

The Argentine club's vice president Omar Solassi told Catalan radio that while the Blaugrana have not made an approach they understand what his club want.

 

"Balanta is worth €15 million," the River director told Esports COPE.

 

"He is a great player with a great future.

 

Solassi thinks that Balanta, 20, would fit in at Camp Nou because he could offer coach Tata Martino something different from what he already has.

 

"We would listen to offers for him, but Barca have made not official offer to us for him," he continued.

 

"I think that Balanta would be liked by Tata Martino It would not seem odd to me if Barca are interested in him.

 

"He is a player that will come good whichever team he plays for.

 

"Balanta is not like Mascherano nor like Pique. He is a different sort of player with more presence. He is a strong defender, is good on the ball and knows how to play going forward."

 

River Plate currently own 80 per cent of Balanta's right while the player's family own the other 20 per cent.

 

[Ketsbaia]

Tim Vickery absolutely raves about this kid.

[Neil]

Some of the shit that happens in SA is something else. Been watching Godoy v Boca, very entertaining game but the officials were exceptionally bad. First of all Boca aren't awarded a penalty for one of the clearest fouls you're likely to see. Then, the referee initially awards a free kick, then the linesman says its a penalty, cue mass protests from everyone, no-one has a clue what's going on, finally it's awarded as a free kick on the edge of the box.

 

A quiet finish? Not a chance, as a Boca player gets hacked down in the area, and the ref awards a penalty in mere nanoseconds as he sprints to the penalty spot in the most over the top fashion imaginable, seemingly desperate to make amends for earlier decisions. Riquelme scores the penalty to make it 2-2 in the 94th minute.

 

Of course, during this and at full time there's all sorts of mayhem on the sidelines. Mass brawls at full time, including Godoy manager and former Boca hero Martin Palermo understandably pissed off.

[Disco]

Some of the shit that happens in SA is something else. Been watching Godoy v Boca, very entertaining game but the officials were exceptionally bad. First of all Boca aren't awarded a penalty for one of the clearest fouls you're likely to see. Then, the referee initially awards a free kick, then the linesman says its a penalty, cue mass protests from everyone, no-one has a clue what's going on, finally it's awarded as a free kick on the edge of the box.

 

A quiet finish? Not a chance, as a Boca player gets hacked down in the area, and the ref awards a penalty in mere nanoseconds as he sprints to the penalty spot in the most over the top fashion imaginable, seemingly desperate to make amends for earlier decisions. Riquelme scores the penalty to make it 2-2 in the 94th minute.

 

Of course, during this and at full time there's all sorts of mayhem on the sidelines. Mass brawls at full time, including Godoy manager and former Boca hero Martin Palermo understandably pissed off.

 

You did extremely well to watch a Godoy Cruz game in which there were goals. There have been 17 goals in their 12 matches this season including last night

 

With referees you have the doubled edged sword of bias too in that invariably home teams get the decisions (especially now as away fans are technically banned) but if they're playing a big 5 team (especially Boca/River) this may be counteracted and also if a team is playing Arsenal de Sarandi they're automatically struggling as they ran by the Grondona family who are the head of the AFA and also in FIFA.

 

Arsenal won the cup last week and are challenging for the league and have done well over the last 25 years despite being tiny in terms of reputation and support.