Disco Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Also there's more to effectiveness than just goals and assists. Otherwise Zidane and Iniesta were never effective. watching a player loads and forming an opinion based on that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>stats bores. Doesn't show a true reflection in football like it does other lesser sports. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Hazard is one of the best in the world, for sure. In a way, I sometimes think he's underrated - when naming #3 after Messi/Ronaldo he never gets mentioned. I'd still probably put Aguero, Suarez or Bale there, but Hazard's in the mix. Absolutely no way he's behind Bale like. In what way is he better? Even this season where Bale has come in for some criticism, he's still the more effective player. In the way that he's been substantially more effective for Chelsea than Bale has been for Real in the past 18 months. Also the way he has produced better performances. Not to say the fact he has looked like more of a match-winner. That's not true though is it. Hazard has 31 goals & 14 assists in 85 games from the beginning of last season. Bale has 36 goals & 22 assists in 77. Less games, more goals and assists. He also doesn't take the majority of penalties for his team either. Clearly Bale has been more effective, let alone "substantially" less effective - which is a ludicrous statement. The match-winner stuff is crazy too when Bale scored crucial goals in helping Real win trophies. the Barca goal in particular was brilliant. Real stuffed a fair few teams in the CL last season but Bale was simply magnificent throughout. Bale has been a 1 in 2 scorer for the past 3 seasons. Hazard is still 1 in 3. Takes all Chelsea's penalties and has scored maybe 2 league goals away all season. To say Hazard is better and more effective than Bale is just not true. Hazard is yet to top Bale's last Spurs season let alone the big game match winners of last season. :lol: Well then. Crouch for England. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Also there's more to effectiveness than just goals and assists. Otherwise Zidane and Iniesta were never effective. watching a player loads and forming an opinion based on that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>stats bores. Doesn't show a true reflection in football like it does other lesser sports. Precisely. Bale has been ineffective in countless games for Real while Hazard rarely goes a game without creating a clear chance or getting the opposition on the back foot thus altering the dynamic of the game. He's a more consistent player in my book. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorJ_01 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Interesting point, who is the best striker with the worst goalscoring record? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Also there's more to effectiveness than just goals and assists. Otherwise Zidane and Iniesta were never effective. watching a player loads and forming an opinion based on that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>stats bores. Doesn't show a true reflection in football like it does other lesser sports. Precisely. Bale has been ineffective in countless games for Real while Hazard rarely goes a game without creating a clear chance or getting the opposition on the back foot thus altering the dynamic of the game. He's a more consistent player in my book. Right but you're then ignoring the context of the sides theyre playing in. Real Madrid have more to share the load. The season Bale left spurs, he was winning games for them single handedly from 35 yards for fun. Last minute winners. Hazard is a great player, but hes not been close to that. Nor does he do more off the ball to suggest that assists/goals arent very relevant here. Dont really see how people can claim hes better & Id be interested to see the attributes he has over Bale, i cant see that many. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Also there's more to effectiveness than just goals and assists. Otherwise Zidane and Iniesta were never effective. Hazard is more gifted than Bale, that is quite clear. He does multiple things which impact a game which makes those around him better and makes him more dangerous. You don't see teams triple team Bale like PSG did Hazard, he still has to prove it on the biggest stage but he clearly has all the tools required to be much better. This debate reminds me of the Neymar and Bale debate from a couple of years ago, I always believed in Neymar's superior ability and eventually I believe Hazard will clearly be considered the better player. Zidane & Iniesta are playmakers - that's a different kettle. Hazard is basically an inside forward as is Bale. Neither control the tempo of a game or make opposition attackers ineffective. Hazard draws more fouls, that's about it. Hazard is more gifted? How? He's a better dribbler and has more tricks. Bale is more physically gifted and has more tools in his attacking arsenal. He's a threat in the air and uses his weaker foot more. Scores more goals from distance. The point about tripling up is swings and roundabouts. Hazard benefits just as much as he suffers from being Chelsea's main man. Bale's playing at a bigger club, with more pressure and has to cede the limelight. As the main man at Spurs Bale won multiple matches by himself. Left foot, right foot, tap-ins, from range. 22 league goals, no penalties. I've never seen Hazard reach that level of dominance. Hazard has never been as decisive as Bale was in big matches lasts season. The statistics for Bale are important because he also does it at the very highest level. If Crouch scored against top opposition for England you wouldn't use that as a comparison although it's silly enough as it is. Hazard's also scored a vast majority of his goals & assists at home in games Chelsea would win anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Interesting point, who is the best striker with the worst goalscoring record? Suarez. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 It's all irrelevant, Reus and Greizmann are better players than both in my opinion. That's not to say Hazard and Bale aren't class mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Interesting point, who is the best striker with the worst goalscoring record? From recent times - Drogba would be up there. 09-10 was probably the only season where he went mental for goals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Interesting point, who is the best striker with the worst goalscoring record? From recent times - Drogba would be up there. 09-10 was probably the only season where he went mental for goals. Any target player that can link up play basically. Benzema is another one. Doesn't score a ridiculous amounts of goals, but despite not being a targetman in the traditional sense is a fucking fantastic link-up player. Back in the days I always thought Fernando Morientes was the shit. Guy was so technically intelligent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 NVM Benzema has scored far more than I thought Guess Ronaldo overshadows that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 How the hell is Hazard a forward, he's a midfielder a playmaker just like Ribery is. In fact that's who he reminds me of the most although he has potential to be better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 NVM Benzema has scored far more than I thought Guess Ronaldo overshadows that. He's going to be top 10 CL scorer all time soon, doesn't get enough credit IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 NVM Benzema has scored far more than I thought Guess Ronaldo overshadows that. He's going to be top 10 CL scorer all time soon, doesn't get enough credit IMO. At least not from me in terms of scoring apparently Always seen him as a very very good footballer on his day, but never actually realized he scores this much Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 CRonaldo owes a lot of his success at Real to Benzema. Excellent footballer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 CRonaldo owes a lot of his success at Real to Benzema. Excellent footballer. That's true to a point and vice versa quite frankly. Ronaldo and Bale both need to be fed to a certain extent and Benzema is fantastic are creating chances for them. It's why Higuain was moved out, because he simply cannot create for those around him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 CRonaldo owes a lot of his success at Real to Benzema. Excellent footballer. That's true to a point and vice versa quite frankly. Ronaldo and Bale both need to be fed to a certain extent and Benzema is fantastic are creating chances for them. It's why Higuain was moved out, because he simply cannot create for those around him. No doubt, but CRonaldo's the one who routinely gets the plaudits (for good reason, obviously). It's a two-way street that's often not given enough respect, imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 That's the way it is. Robben gets most of the credit for Bayern, Messi for Barca and so on. Is it right ? Probably not but that's never going to change. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 No way is Hazard a playmaker. Benzema's been class. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 That's the way it is. Robben gets most of the credit for Bayern, Messi for Barca and so on. Is it right ? Probably not but that's never going to change. aye thanks for that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Who isn't getting the shine they deserve? Pretty much all the other players in those teams are World Cup winners. Benzema's a top player but obviously Cronaldo is the man. BUt it's a team sport and they need each other. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 He creates everything for that team, he's no less of a playmaker than Iniesta is (not saying he's better mind but the things he does are what constitutes a playmaker.) He creates plays and dictates how the team plays in terms of tempo, your idea of playmaking is clearly quite different to mine because Hazard is clearly playmaking for that team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 That's the way it is. Robben gets most of the credit for Bayern, Messi for Barca and so on. Is it right ? Probably not but that's never going to change. aye thanks for that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 He creates everything for that team, he's no less of a playmaker than Iniesta is (not saying he's better mind but the things he does are what constitutes a playmaker.) He creates plays and dictates how the team plays in terms of tempo, your idea of playmaking is clearly quite different to mine because Hazard is clearly playmaking for that team. TBF I see Cesc as the playmaker of that team. Playmaker for me is the one that dictates the tempo of games and creates chances. Hazard does create and all, but he doesn't really dictate the tempo of the game like Messi does when he plays on the wings. It's harder for a winger to be a playmaker in MY way of seeing it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TruToon94 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Interesting point, who is the best striker with the worst goalscoring record? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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