BrettNUFC Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Big fan of Zaha but i just can't see where he can fit in here really. Gouff/Sissoko have positions nailed down in a 4-4-2 at the moment, Zaha's workrate isn't one to match any of them two. We've already got Ben Arfa pushing for a start and we are never going to have Ben Arfa/Zaha starting with Pardew in charge. Developing talent for clubs below you in the league seems a strange method anyways Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 OK, let's continue bringing on Obertan when we could be bringing on Zaha instead. You're also ignoring the fact we've been exceptionally fortunate with injuries this season so far. That won't last, and there'll be s**** in our first team and not s**** that will improve but s**** that is there to fill the numbers in our squad. Obertan as an impact sub, is something I would prefer to see ahead of Zaha tbh, at least it's our player, maybe increasing his value. But who are you kidding, it's HBA that'll be impacted most. It's been HBA coming off the bench in the last few games not Obertan. Obertan playing probably decreases his value. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Whether the loan system needs to be banned or not I don't see the problem with us taking advantage of it whilst we can. As for Sammy, we're blocking his progress by not loaning him out ourselves, the same as a few others. He's not good enough for us at the moment and he probably never will be when he's having a 5-10 minute appearances from the bench every now and then. So bringing in Zaha wouldn't really be a problem, it could actually be beneficial to Sammy's progress if we play it right. Gerard Deulofeu has started 2 games for Everton fwiw, I don't think this "must play" clause really exists. It's not there in every case but could easily be inserted. If you are Man U what's the value in sending someone somewhere to sit on a bench when they could do the same and stay within your system, other than saving some/part of their wages, which to be fair isn't a big motivator for MUFC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 At Man Utd he's only played about 30 minutes total all season though. Again with Deulofeu, Barcelona could have loaned him out to somewhere he would be starting every game off the belt but they haven't and he's not. Zaha would get significantly more game time here than he would at Man Utd, which could be enough of an incentive. I don't even know if I want him either tbh, I would just prefer we took advantage of the loan system more than we do currently if we're too cheap to buy the players we need, and everyone else will probably be saying the same a couple of months down the line when Jonas is starting games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 If we're loaning anyone from Man U it should be Hernandez because he wants more game time before the WC (not very realistic, I know), anyone else can do one as far as I'm concerned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixx Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I still think Sammy has what it takes and Zaha would only block his chances. No thanks. I admire your optimisim. I really do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRD Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 No club will agree to a 'must play' clause when it will open up a can of problems. Will you be obliged to play a penalty if he doesn't and is such a penalty legit in the first place? Or the manager is forced to play a disinterested loanee or rush him back from any injuries? Barca are smart with the Deulofeu loan though - if he plays a certain % of games, Everton don't have to play a loan fee. That's the way it should be really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Barca are smart with the Deulofeu loan though - if he plays a certain % of games, Everton don't have to play a loan fee. That's the way it should be really. Not that that will really influence his selection either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRD Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Fwiw I am open to the rare couple of quality loanees since our owner is a stingy cunt. Not more than that though or we find ourselves in a mackem situation where we depend heavily on the loan system developing other clubs' players, and having to rebuild every season when the loans expire. For the same reason I'm not interested in developmental players who aren't going to contribute much here. Neither would the loaning club if their players don't play I suspect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRD Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Barca are smart with the Deulofeu loan though - if he plays a certain % of games, Everton don't have to play a loan fee. That's the way it should be really. Not that that will really influence his selection either. Not with the Deulofeu/ Everton case but it would be a nice incentive when you send a developmental player - the likes of Sammy, Bigirimana, Ferguson - out on loan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Alan Pardew says that Newcastle United’s autumn surge means they can afford to be more “calculating” in the “difficult” January transfer window. And while he would welcome new recruits, the Magpies boss says that the club’s fine form means they do not have to do any business in January. The January window swings open in two weeks and United have held a series of summits over the last fortnight to outline possible targets in a window they have traditionally favoured. With contracts winding down across the Continent and the added injection of the desperation of struggling clubs, Newcastle have been able to extract some value from the January market – most notably by securing Papiss Cisse and Mathieu Debuchy for much lower fees than they’d had turned down in the previous windows. Last January they were in a weaker position after recognising the need to strengthen the squad to shore up their survival chances, but this year Pardew predicts a more methodical approach which will see them target one or two players to add quality rather than last year’s recruitment drive. The club’s main senior target is to sign a striker but they are monitoring a number of players in the Massadio Haidara mould who could add strength-in-depth to their squad and promise for the future. Lyon front man Bafetimbi Gomis’ wage demands have seen him ruled out in the early stages of the reckoning, but the Magpies have a small list of potential targets. Pardew said: “I think we can be very calculated in this window. “If you are in a good position, there is no need to rush anything,” he said. “In the corresponding window last year, we really needed to do some business and when you need to do business, I think it is a difficult window. “When you don’t need to do business, which perhaps you can argue we don’t, then maybe you can look at it in a more calculated manner.” Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 And so it begins. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Haris Vuckic Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 ''It looks like we're safe, so we aren't going to spend a fucking penny, make that sound clever Alan, run along'' - Mike Ashley yesterday... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 "No bother Mike, it'll be my pleasure." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Fwiw I am open to the rare couple of quality loanees since our owner is a stingy cunt. Not more than that though or we find ourselves in a mackem situation where we depend heavily on the loan system developing other clubs' players, and having to rebuild every season when the loans expire. For the same reason I'm not interested in developmental players who aren't going to contribute much here. Neither would the loaning club if their players don't play I suspect. I wouldn't want us to take loanees from the Premier League at all, hate that we're developing rivals' players for them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Haris Vuckic Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 ''Have yous lads got some money I can borrow for cans?'' - Joe Kinnear Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chopey Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I don't like the idea of loaning players from another team in the same league, I still think we stopped becoming rivals to Man UTD when we loaned Rossi off them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRD Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 If you don't the likes of Everton are going to use the loan system to great effect. Of course I would prefer a loan with a view to buy but if a quality player like Lukaku turns up and we are short in that position, why not? We only have ourselves to blame for not utilising the loan system to our benefit in terms of both ins and outs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillClinton Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Wouldn't want to loan Zaha unless we have a real agreement in place purchase him after. It's bad enough that our current leading scorer belongs to a Championship club. We shouldn't be helping other Premier League clubs develop their talent. We are having a hard enough time finding playing time for Ben Arfa and Marveaux or any of our own youngsters, so lets not go and give time to another clubs player. If we are only going after squad filler than buy someone cheap and hope they turn into another Gouffran or give our own academy players a chance. The loan system is shit and just encourages the big clubs to suck up all the talent at no risk. It's embarrassing for a club of our size to have to rely on it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRD Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Doubt Man Utd will loan Zaha to us when he isn't guaranteed game time anyway. If he isn't going to be playing regularly and just sitting on the bench he might as well sit on theirs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I don't like the idea of loaning players from another team in the same league, I still think we stopped becoming rivals to Man UTD when we loaned Rossi off them I thought the bit where we finished in the bottom half for 4 years running while they were off winning the Champions League probably did it. I don't get the hatred for the loan system. I don't care if we 'develop someone else's players' if it means we benefit from a better player and we finish in a better position as a result. That's what a trade is about, you do something that is in both parties interest. Admittedly the system is just allowing some clubs to hoover up players and needs reform, but we shouldn't consider ourselves above borrowing players from other clubs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belfast Mags Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 And so it begins. Rinse and repeat Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnes23 Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I doubt i'm the only one who thinks he wouldn't improve the starting eleven tbh.... i don't want players which make the disparity in quality between the starting eleven and the bench even bigger than it already is. I want players that would actually improve he starting eleven and for me he doesn't do that.... also his talent doesn't outweigh his lack of brain. Yep. Ridiculous to bench/exclude people like HBA and Marveaux only to bring in a far less talented player with about the same level of workrate as them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sempuki Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 With Jonas, Marveaux and even Lightbulb Heed out of the picture this one might happen imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 We need a replacement for Shola. If we don't get one in January it'll be the biggest fucking joke since... the last transfer window. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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