The Managerial Merry Go Round™ - Ivan Juric to Southampton

[Si]

Sorry if giggs but Caulkin's steamed right in calling him the "undertaker"

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/slaven-bilic-sacked-by-west-ham-united-with-david-moyes-set-to-take-over-3226kxrff

Really wish he wasn't behind a paywall I love his writing,  too good to be hidden.

[Ketsbaia]

Sorry if giggs but Caulkin's steamed right in calling him the "undertaker"

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/slaven-bilic-sacked-by-west-ham-united-with-david-moyes-set-to-take-over-3226kxrff

 

He'll soon have a streak to rival Taker's.

[afar]

Interesting point on RTG. At West Ham he's been allowed to bring in Alan Irvine and said he's able to bring in people he knows and trusts.

 

Compare that to Sunderland where he got stuck with Bracewell & Stockdale.

 

I have a hard time believing Moyes wouldn't have had the power to bring in his own people, he was a manager the owner had courted for years apparently, certainly not someone begging for a job when he got it. It's just another thing for the RTG crowd to bash Short with, which is their general pastime. In terms of Irvine being the difference between him being the successful manager he was at Everton to the horror show that turned up at Manure, Sociedad and the Mackems, I think that's probably too simplistic, Irvine was hardly successful when he got the West Brom job.

[Si]

It could be they wouldn't pay their wages.

[afar]

It could be they wouldn't pay their wages.

 

They paid 13 million for N'dong, I doubt money was that tight.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Been speaking to my mackem mate again today and he actually said Moyes was like the grim reaper around the club, so negative. He apparently didn't do much himself on the training ground either, which may make some sense RE any success he's had with Irvine around. The minute he walked into the door he basically said the squad wasn't good enough and would struggle to stay up, from day one it was about relegation. He like others believes Moyes didn't give a fuck about his job, didn't put the effort in and blamed everything and everyone for defeats and poor performances and couldn't wait to be put out of what he perceived Moyes to think was his own misery. He fucking hates him as much as I hate Pardew and blames him solely for their relegation. How can it be right that someone who has failed miserably in his last free jobs, plays a dour style of ancient football, who has a low regard of academies and younger players, who has questionable ties with certain agents, be considered a good manager worthy of appointing? I can only assume WH's owners are rolling the dice hoping to stay up with a manager already targeted/lined up for next season who is currently employed.

 

Rafa anyone? If we are unsold come the end of the season or go down, I can see them making a move for him.

[ikri]

Been speaking to my mackem mate again today and he actually said Moyes was like the grim reaper around the club, so negative. He apparently didn't do much himself on the training ground either, which may make some sense RE any success he's had with Irvine around. The minute he walked into the door he basically said the squad wasn't good enough and would struggle to stay up, from day one it was about relegation. He like others believes Moyes didn't give a fuck about his job, didn't put the effort in and blamed everything and everyone for defeats and poor performances and couldn't wait to be put out of what he perceived Moyes to think was his own misery. He fucking hates him as much as I hate Pardew and blames him solely for their relegation. How can it be right that someone who has failed miserably in his last free jobs, plays a dour style of ancient football, who has a low regard of academies and younger players, who has questionable ties with certain agents, be considered a good manager worthy of appointing? I can only assume WH's owners are rolling the dice hoping to stay up with a manager already targeted/lined up for next season who is currently employed.

 

Rafa anyone? If we are unsold come the end of the season or go down, I can see them making a move for him.

 

For reasons I've never quite worked out, West Ham have a number of supporters who write in the national press.  I'd put money on them also being friendly with someone like Moyes.  Who better to ask for advice on your next management than football writers for The Daily Mail or The Mirror?  Their mate gets the cushy job, they get a few tasty rumours and inside stories, win-win for everyone except the club & supporters.

[Kimbo]

Saw Chris Kirkland tonight saying he would pick "Unsy" over Diego Simeone, who for some reason is being discussed for the Everton job.

[Pilko]

"Unsy"

[Ketsbaia]

Just call him David Insworth.

[HaydnNUFC]

Much rather have big Brexit David "Unsy" Unsworth than that forrin muck.

 

Fwiw I think the Simeone links are people within Everton feeding the press bollocks to appease fans.

[Sho Time]

Saw Chris Kirkland tonight saying he would pick "Unsy" over Diego Simeone, who for some reason is being discussed for the Everton job.

 

[Deuce]

Much rather have big Brexit David "Unsy" Unsworth than that forrin muck.

 

Fwiw I think the Simeone links are people within Everton feeding the press bollocks to appease fans.

 

gonna be some shit when they appoint Fat Sam instead

[GeordieDazzler]

IF Simeone leaves Atleti for the Prem it will be for Chelsea to replace Conte when he heads to Milan at the end of the season.

[Kimbo]

IF Simeone leaves Atleti for the Prem it will be for Chelsea to replace Conte when he heads to Milan at the end of the season.

 

I dunno, what if English youth team coaches start hoovering up all the top jobs? Plus Everton are a MASSIVE job now apparently, so he should be honoured to be considered... alongside Unsy.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I wouldn't be against someone like Unsworth getting a job at a club like Everton, its kind of what happens a lot on the continent. Promote from within etc. I'd far rather see the likes of him giving a chance or a start than someone like Big Sam getting back on the managerial merry-go-round. I can't stand Ryan Giggs and think he would make a terrible manager, but even he has had some kind of apprenticeship and again I'd rather give others a chance than see the regular lot keep picking up jobs despite proving to be shit at their job. I mean you Pardew for instance!

[Darth Crooks]

I wouldn't be against someone like Unsworth getting a job at a club like Everton, its kind of what happens a lot on the continent. Promote from withinetc. I'd far rather see the likes of him giving a chance or a start than someone like Big Sam getting back on the managerial merry-go-round. I can't stand Ryan Giggs and think he would make a terrible manager, but even he has had some kind of apprenticeship and again I'd rather give others a chance than see the regular lot keep picking up jobs despite proving to be shit at their job. I mean you Pardew for instance!

 

[Kimbo]

I think promoting from within has a terrible record in the premier league, I'm struggling to think of a time it has ever worked.

[Nobody]

I think promoting from within has a terrible record in the premier league, I'm struggling to think of a time it has ever worked.

Monk was promoted from within at Swansea, wasn't he? Debatable whether he was a success or not like.

[Ketsbaia]

Southgate at Boro.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I think promoting from within has a terrible record in the premier league, I'm struggling to think of a time it has ever worked.

 

Hughton?

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I wouldn't be against someone like Unsworth getting a job at a club like Everton, its kind of what happens a lot on the continent. Promote from withinetc. I'd far rather see the likes of him giving a chance or a start than someone like Big Sam getting back on the managerial merry-go-round. I can't stand Ryan Giggs and think he would make a terrible manager, but even he has had some kind of apprenticeship and again I'd rather give others a chance than see the regular lot keep picking up jobs despite proving to be s*** at their job. I mean you Pardew for instance!

 

 

Carver was never managerial material, he was barely a coach from what I've heard from ex players. He was basically KK's Terry Mac to Sir Bobby.

[healthyaddiction]

I think promoting from within has a terrible record in the premier league, I'm struggling to think of a time it has ever worked.

 

Hughton?

Wasn't in the premier league when he got the job.

[Guest firetotheworks]

I think promoting from within has a terrible record in the premier league, I'm struggling to think of a time it has ever worked.

 

Hughton?

Wasn't in the premier league when he got the job.

 

Technically you're right but it's bit harsh, mind. He was caretaker once or twice in the PL, then got us promoted and was a PL manager with us for half a season.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I think promoting from within has a terrible record in the premier league, I'm struggling to think of a time it has ever worked.

 

It doesn't have the best of records, but it isn't a regular thing so its hard to compare or critique. The money involved in our game makes it hard for any club to take a gamble on someone from within. Can you imagine NUFC giving say Nobby Solano the job like Barca did with Guardiola who in the grande scheme of things was of a similar status legend/hero/icon wise?

 

There is almost a sense of instant success or instant improvement demanded by owners and even fans, that and in our culture managers of old have networked superbly via the media and ex players to keep themselves in the public eye where jobs are involved so get back into things regularly.

 

Ultimately though, promoting from within is risky here because our ex players are dumb as fuck when it comes to coaching and have all been schooled in an archaic way. Beardsley was a great player, but emphasises work effort, graft and bottle over skill and technique for example which is crazy considering how great he was. But that's what strengths he was brought up on to demonstrate as a player. Thankfully for him, he had the skill and technique to be even more than the sum of work rate, hard work and bottle etc.

 

Imagine him in charge of this team though? We would be guaranteed to go down. He cannot succeed even at u23 or development level. This a former great player with vast experience at a level where he should be more than comfortable at.

 

I think we are a decade or so behind the continent in that regard. Nothing will change, however, unless former players, good or bad, go into coaching, development roles and at lower levels because the top teams and the top league is a closed shop. The cream always rises to the top.

 

Of all the current British managers out there right now I regard Hughton, Dyche and someone like Monk way ahead of your Moyes', Big Sams', Hughes' et al because they don't rely on money or reputation or dour football/percentages to get results. They coach, they develop, they build, they improve. They do a good job.

 

Coaching standards are joke in England, you just have to watch kids' football.

 

My two are just getting into it and my 3 year old is in an age group between 4-6, but he's a confident boy and isn't afraid to go ainst someone older or bigger. A few weeks back he wasn't himself and the coach said perhaps he needs to be playing with kids his own age. Maybe so... but, first of all he had recently had the flue, he was missing his mam who was in Germany and he is 3 years old.

 

This coach is in his early 40s, lovely bloke and in it for fun and to help kids, I have no problem with him whatsoever. The younger coach in his 20s, however, interjected and said, he will be fine as the week before he was getting stuck in and had no issue against kids older or better than him. I say better, I hate that word for kids, more developed maybe.

 

The following week my 3 year old was full of beans, getting stuck in and loved every moment he played.

 

Its about understanding things and sorry, but most British people in our game, be it fans, owners, players or coaches and managers lack understanding. They think about work rate, physicality, mentality etc. and while its all needed at the highest level, not above development or skill and technique, especially lower down the age and level range.

 

I mean I like Southgate, he's more modern with his methods and coaching and gets it, but I think he lacks the personality or character to unify a team of talented if not exactly great individuals into a winning team. But do you know what, I hope it works and it was kind of brave of the FA to give him it. He's fucking miles of ahead of the likes of Big Sam.

 

But the supporter in me, the typical British/English fan wants the best, wants instant success or improvement so feel it was an easy choice, the wrong choice. Again I hope he does really well.