The Managerial Merry Go Round™ - Ivan Juric to Southampton

[toon25]

 

Shame he won’t be on the radio. Quite like his punditry

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

[joeyt]

Damning

 

Manchester United do not always play badly. To suggest as much misses the open goal of criticism. Solskjaer has a collection of excellent and expensive players. The starting XI against Arsenal cost £410m to sign and three of those were academy graduates who didn’t cost a penny. With those resources, there is a natural floor to Manchester United’s level. Pick those players enough times, face the right opponents, and occasionally they will click and produce something brilliant. Wednesday evening was evidence of that.

 

But that’s exactly the point: The quality of Manchester United’s players guarantees a natural floor and their manager guarantees a natural ceiling. Solskjaer has proven his ability to switch formations and personnel and surprise an opposition manager, particularly in big games. But for the most part United are a ‘roll the dice’ football team. Pick the players, tell them to go out and play, hope the individuals click often enough with each other that it results in brilliance – roll the dice. When it works, fine. When it doesn’t, we can ask questions of the manager. After six matches of their league season, it has worked for 10 minutes against Newcastle United and that’s it.

 

One team on Sunday looked to have a philosophy, a singular goal (that led to the single goal), an evident structure in which everyone knew their role and had been given specific instructions on how to carry it out. The other looked as if it had been told to ‘do what you did last game’. If that’s not true, and Manchester United’s players were given exacting advice on how to career out their role within the team and what they should expect from every opposition player, that’s equally damning because they clearly weren’t listening.

 

And this is the problem. For all the ‘I wonder what the Solskjaer critics think about this’ tweets of Wednesday night, we are allowed to expect better. Dominant home performances shouldn’t be the clanging exception that his defenders cling to. This is Manchester bloody United and they have seven points from six matches and are suffering their worst home run since 1972.

 

Solskjaer’s supporters must also beware revisionism here. He was appointed as interim manager because Mourinho was sacked for failing to produce a title challenge. His United team were sixth at the time of his departure, albeit 11 points off the top four after 17 matches. If expectations have been reduced since then, that is down to Solskjaer as well as the club.

 

Over the period of Solskajer’s permanent tenure, Manchester United sit seventh in the Premier League. Over that period they have taken two more points than Arsenal (who sacked a manager) and behind Chelsea (who sacked a manager) and Tottenham (who sacked a manager). They are two points closer to Liverpool than they are Norwich, but Norwich have played 12 fewer Premier League matches. At what point, two years after Solskjaer joined as the interim option, can we conclude that we’re just not that into him?

 

One typical reaction to defeats such as these is to blame the club’s hierarchy, and not without reason. Ed Woodward is unfit for purpose in a football specialist role. The Glazer family have turned a great club into a shell of its former magnitude, bleeding it dry and thus imposing unhelpful limitations on its on-field performance. But we are still allowed to expect better than this.

 

And Solskjaer is hardly fighting the good fight against the decay. “I noticed [the anti-Glazer chants],” as he said in January. “As a club we’ve got to stick together, we’ve got to be united, we are a family. I can only say from when I’ve been here I’ve been backed by the owners, I’ve been backed by Ed and they’re supporting me.”

 

It’s been said here before, but Solskjaer will never rail against United’s off-field mess because he is lucky to be here at all. If United were a smooth, purring machine he would not be the manager. He is at the best club for him, and his history does count for something. But he is emphatically not the best manager for his position. If the criticism sometimes feels a bit harsh, see back to a previous point: This is Manchester bloody United. You don’t get to win one game handsomely and then lose the next and cry foul because the focus is on the defeat – not here.

 

This is not a poor squad. It is not a starting XI with huge holes. It is imperfect, but then so is Wolves’ squad and Southampton’s squad and their managers have proven themselves capable of creating something greater and longer-lasting than the sum of those parts. Instead it is a team that looks undermanaged and is too easily undone by opponents who have a tactical plan to dismantle United’s laissez-faire approach to being successful. Another manager could do better than this. After two years in charge, another manager should be given the chance.

[The Bonk]

Damning

 

Manchester United do not always play badly. To suggest as much misses the open goal of criticism. Solskjaer has a collection of excellent and expensive players. The starting XI against Arsenal cost £410m to sign and three of those were academy graduates who didn’t cost a penny. With those resources, there is a natural floor to Manchester United’s level. Pick those players enough times, face the right opponents, and occasionally they will click and produce something brilliant. Wednesday evening was evidence of that.

 

But that’s exactly the point: The quality of Manchester United’s players guarantees a natural floor and their manager guarantees a natural ceiling. Solskjaer has proven his ability to switch formations and personnel and surprise an opposition manager, particularly in big games. But for the most part United are a ‘roll the dice’ football team. Pick the players, tell them to go out and play, hope the individuals click often enough with each other that it results in brilliance – roll the dice. When it works, fine. When it doesn’t, we can ask questions of the manager. After six matches of their league season, it has worked for 10 minutes against Newcastle United and that’s it.

 

One team on Sunday looked to have a philosophy, a singular goal (that led to the single goal), an evident structure in which everyone knew their role and had been given specific instructions on how to carry it out. The other looked as if it had been told to ‘do what you did last game’. If that’s not true, and Manchester United’s players were given exacting advice on how to career out their role within the team and what they should expect from every opposition player, that’s equally damning because they clearly weren’t listening.

 

And this is the problem. For all the ‘I wonder what the Solskjaer critics think about this’ tweets of Wednesday night, we are allowed to expect better. Dominant home performances shouldn’t be the clanging exception that his defenders cling to. This is Manchester bloody United and they have seven points from six matches and are suffering their worst home run since 1972.

 

Solskjaer’s supporters must also beware revisionism here. He was appointed as interim manager because Mourinho was sacked for failing to produce a title challenge. His United team were sixth at the time of his departure, albeit 11 points off the top four after 17 matches. If expectations have been reduced since then, that is down to Solskjaer as well as the club.

 

Over the period of Solskajer’s permanent tenure, Manchester United sit seventh in the Premier League. Over that period they have taken two more points than Arsenal (who sacked a manager) and behind Chelsea (who sacked a manager) and Tottenham (who sacked a manager). They are two points closer to Liverpool than they are Norwich, but Norwich have played 12 fewer Premier League matches. At what point, two years after Solskjaer joined as the interim option, can we conclude that we’re just not that into him?

 

One typical reaction to defeats such as these is to blame the club’s hierarchy, and not without reason. Ed Woodward is unfit for purpose in a football specialist role. The Glazer family have turned a great club into a shell of its former magnitude, bleeding it dry and thus imposing unhelpful limitations on its on-field performance. But we are still allowed to expect better than this.

 

And Solskjaer is hardly fighting the good fight against the decay. “I noticed [the anti-Glazer chants],” as he said in January. “As a club we’ve got to stick together, we’ve got to be united, we are a family. I can only say from when I’ve been here I’ve been backed by the owners, I’ve been backed by Ed and they’re supporting me.”

 

It’s been said here before, but Solskjaer will never rail against United’s off-field mess because he is lucky to be here at all. If United were a smooth, purring machine he would not be the manager. He is at the best club for him, and his history does count for something. But he is emphatically not the best manager for his position. If the criticism sometimes feels a bit harsh, see back to a previous point: This is Manchester bloody United. You don’t get to win one game handsomely and then lose the next and cry foul because the focus is on the defeat – not here.

 

This is not a poor squad. It is not a starting XI with huge holes. It is imperfect, but then so is Wolves’ squad and Southampton’s squad and their managers have proven themselves capable of creating something greater and longer-lasting than the sum of those parts. Instead it is a team that looks undermanaged and is too easily undone by opponents who have a tactical plan to dismantle United’s laissez-faire approach to being successful. Another manager could do better than this. After two years in charge, another manager should be given the chance.

 

It is and you hate to see it.

[Dr Jinx]

A joy listening to Poch talking about his philosophy about coaching football. He knows what he’s talking about for sure. His English seems to have improved too..

[Froggy]

The debate rages on about whether Ole is the right man or not. Myself and most other Ole supporters never thought he was going to be the man to lead us to the treble like. But he is absolutely taking us forward. The style of play is night and day than what it was under Moyes, LvG and Jose. The mood around the club is better. He's freezing out the deadwood and getting rid as soon as he can. Unfortunately he wasn't backed in the transfer market like previous managers. We needed a left back, a centre back and a right winger. We got the left back, and he was quickly taken down by Covid. We never got a centre back and we never got Sancho despite being told the price from day one and the player actually wanting to come.

 

Lack of crowd is huge. With the exception of Liverpool the table is all over the place, but most of the scrutiny seems to be on Manchester United and Ole. We are 4 points behind Pep Guardiolas Man City. A run or 2/3 wins and you're right back in contention. It's going to be a funny year.

 

He has more time to improve things. Consistency is the issue. Pogba doesn't deserve to be playing at the minute. If he can be criticised for anything it's his insistence of playing him. Van de Beek must be wondering what needs to happen for him to be selected ahead of him. Bruno coming off on Sunday instead of Pogba was criminal.

 

We could go and get Poch right now if we wanted to. I personally don't see what Poch has done to warrant that though. People are here criticising Ole for not challenging or winning a trophy after 2 years. Poch won nothing after 5. He's almost certainly going to be the next manager though and that's what he's waiting for.

 

League results obviously have to improve. But Ole deserves the season. He did brilliantly to get us into third last year.

[joeyt]

Lack of crowd is huge

 

Why isn't Ole banging on Woodward's door demanding a centre back and winger?

[Shearergol]

The debate rages on about whether Ole is the right man or not. Myself and most other Ole supporters never thought he was going to be the man to lead us to the treble like. But he is absolutely taking us forward. The style of play is night and day than what it was under Moyes, LvG and Jose. The mood around the club is better. He's freezing out the deadwood and getting rid as soon as he can. Unfortunately he wasn't backed in the transfer market like previous managers. We needed a left back, a centre back and a right winger. We got the left back, and he was quickly taken down by Covid. We never got a centre back and we never got Sancho despite being told the price from day one and the player actually wanting to come.

 

Lack of crowd is huge. With the exception of Liverpool the table is all over the place, but most of the scrutiny seems to be on Manchester United and Ole. We are 4 points behind Pep Guardiolas Man City. A run or 2/3 wins and you're right back in contention. It's going to be a funny year.

 

He has more time to improve things. Consistency is the issue. Pogba doesn't deserve to be playing at the minute. If he can be criticised for anything it's his insistence of playing him. Van de Beek must be wondering what needs to happen for him to be selected ahead of him. Bruno coming off on Sunday instead of Pogba was criminal.

 

We could go and get Poch right now if we wanted to. I personally don't see what Poch has done to warrant that though. People are here criticising Ole for not challenging or winning a trophy after 2 years. Poch won nothing after 5. He's almost certainly going to be the next manager though and that's what he's waiting for.

 

League results obviously have to improve. But Ole deserves the season. He did brilliantly to get us into third last year.

 

Poch won nothing at a team who win nothing. You're "Manchester Bloody United" though. But maybe that's the point. Maybe your fans have finally been conditioned to accept that you're not the greatest club in the world?

[Froggy]

Lack of crowd is huge

 

Why isn't Ole banging on Woodward's door demanding a centre back and winger?

 

Why didn't Jose bang on Woodward's door? This is the way transfers will be until the Glazers are gone.

 

Poch won nothing at a team who win nothing. You're "Manchester Bloody United" though. But maybe that's the point. Maybe your fans have finally been conditioned to accept that you're not the greatest club in the world?

 

We're the biggest club in the world, that doesn't give us the right to finish 1st every season. Of course the fans are realistic and understand a title challenge is still a brave bit off. But it's a lot closer than it ever was under any of the other managers IMO.

[joeyt]

Jose was constantly talking about how he hadn't got the players he wanted during his time at Man Utd wasn't he?

 

You barely hear a peep from OGS because he knows he's lucky to be in that job

[Ikon]

Real Madrid is the biggest in the world imo. Top of the food chain. If they want a particular player then they get him, no matter who else wants the same one.

[Froggy]

Jose was constantly talking about how he hadn't got the players he wanted during his time at Man Utd wasn't he?

 

You barely hear a peep from OGS because he knows he's lucky to be in that job

 

I would agree with this. I don't think the way Jose went about it was right either though. That destroys confidence and mood around the club. Once the manager gives up the players give up, and that's exactly what happened. Jose was looking out long before he was sacked.

[Froggy]

Real Madrid is the biggest in the world imo. Top of the food chain. If they want a particular player then they get him, no matter who else wants the same one.

 

Like Van de Beek?

[Menace]

You're talking out of your arse if you think Man U are a bigger team than Real Madrid.

[Guest neesy111]

Real Madrid is the biggest in the world imo. Top of the food chain. If they want a particular player then they get him, no matter who else wants the same one.

 

Real Madrid have got no money at the moment.

[Ikon]

Real Madrid is the biggest in the world imo. Top of the food chain. If they want a particular player then they get him, no matter who else wants the same one.

 

Like Van de Beek?

 

There will always be the odd case here and there obviously. Do they want the player enough, does the player want a bigger chance of game time and so on.

"Bigger" is always a personal opinion really, but imo a club like Real Madrid is the biggest, and is at the top of the food chain.

 

Figo, Ronaldo, Zidane, Ronaldo, Modric, Ramos and so on and on..

[Ikon]

Real Madrid is the biggest in the world imo. Top of the food chain. If they want a particular player then they get him, no matter who else wants the same one.

 

Real Madrid have got no money at the moment.

 

Doesn't change which is the bigger club imo.

[Ikon]

Also, when was the last time any other club signed one of Real Madrids best players at the very top of their game? I don't count Ronaldo as one of these.

There cant be too many I imagine... Personally I dislike RM.

[STM]

Lack of crowd is huge

 

Why isn't Ole banging on Woodward's door demanding a centre back and winger?

 

Why didn't Jose bang on Woodward's door? This is the way transfers will be until the Glazers are gone.

 

Poch won nothing at a team who win nothing. You're "Manchester Bloody United" though. But maybe that's the point. Maybe your fans have finally been conditioned to accept that you're not the greatest club in the world?

 

We're the biggest club in the world, that doesn't give us the right to finish 1st every season. Of course the fans are realistic and understand a title challenge is still a brave bit off. But it's a lot closer than it ever was under any of the other managers IMO.

 

It doesn't give you the right but every season you dont win the league is a massive failure, especially when you were light years from your two biggest rivals.

 

Using Moyes, LVG and Jose's performances as an excuse for the next persons performances isnt right either. 3 managers failing, doesnt excuse more failure.

 

Your other arguement is time and "progress", how long is "progress" allowed. I watched an Arsenal side, worse on paper, completely out play Man United at the weekend and a Spurs side smash you a couple of weeks ago.

 

Also, time wont make OGS a good manager. You need a magic wand. The whole notion of needing time, is something made up by shite managers. With the resources Man United have, Rome should have been built by now.

 

3 poor managerial appointments since Fergie and when you make it 4 with OGS, everyone says "give him a chance". Makes zero sense.

[STM]

Real Madrid are a bigger club. When they dont win the league, they see it as a massive failure and get rid of their managers.

[Froggy]

Liverpool are a huge club. Almost as big as Real Madrid and Manchester United. Solskjaer just reached 100 games and has pretty much outdone Klopp's first 100 in every way from PPG, goals scored, goals conceded, win percentage etc. Why was Klopp not sacked? Their recruitment was massively on point whereas ours has been a failure the last few windows.

[triggs]

Real Madrid are a far bigger club than Man Utd. 10 more CL's and a lot more attractive to top players

[Alberto2005]

Liverpool are a huge club. Almost as big as Real Madrid and Manchester United. Solskjaer just reached 100 games and has pretty much outdone Klopp's first 100 in every way from PPG, goals scored, goals conceded, win percentage etc. Why was Klopp not sacked? Their recruitment was massively on point whereas ours has been a failure the last few windows.

Jurgen Klopp was regarded as one of the best coaches in the world at that point

 

What is your style of play? I honestly can't see one at all. At least with Klopp you could see the progression.

 

Solskjaer has probably done ok if you consider he's achieved nothing as a manager, but if Ed Woodward has any brains he'd sack him and go get Pochettino.

[Froggy]

Liverpool are a huge club. Almost as big as Real Madrid and Manchester United. Solskjaer just reached 100 games and has pretty much outdone Klopp's first 100 in every way from PPG, goals scored, goals conceded, win percentage etc. Why was Klopp not sacked? Their recruitment was massively on point whereas ours has been a failure the last few windows.

Jurgen Klopp was regarded as one of the best coaches in the world at that point

 

What is your style of play? I honestly can't see one at all. At least with Klopp you could see the progression.

 

Solskjaer has probably done ok if you consider he's achieved nothing as a manager, but if Ed Woodward has any brains he'd sack him and go get Pochettino.

 

So you say Solskjaer has done nothing as a manager and reckon Woodward should sack him to hire Pochettino who has done.... what exactly?

[joeyt]

Got Spurs to a Champions League final