The Managerial Merry Go Round™ - Silva leaves Fulham

[AngelofTheFourth]

The thing i with iraola is that bournemouth have done well but they have also played the least amount of games im the prem with Man united knocked out of their first round of the cup competitions. Since then they have gone on this impressive run but its a lot easier to do when you hardly have any games. He needs time with a top but not "elite" club. A club that expects a good cup run and are in europe. Like a leverkusen, Dortmund, the top portugese teams or the top Serie A teams would be perfect.

[The Prophet]

8 hours ago, Milburn said:

I understand the PSR point, but that still doesn’t really explain why the football itself has become so stale and predictable.

 

Tactical flexibility, in-game management, adapting to opponents, using technical players properly, changing shape when things clearly aren’t working… those things don’t require another £200m.

 

I think that’s probably where we fundamentally disagree. You mainly see the limitations in the squad, while I increasingly see the manager as the main limitation. I’m absolutely convinced that Guardiola, Arteta, Klopp and, for that matter, Emery would all have got far more out of this squad this season than Howe has managed.

 

You're taking broad, general points I'm making about rebuilding a squad, which aren't meant to be a specific defence of Howe and shoehorning them into your own argument.

 

When it comes to our underperformance this season, it feels like a combination of a few factors.

[Froggy]

42 minutes ago, AngelofTheFourth said:

The thing i with iraola is that bournemouth have done well but they have also played the least amount of games im the prem with Man united knocked out of their first round of the cup competitions. Since then they have gone on this impressive run but its a lot easier to do when you hardly have any games. He needs time with a top but not "elite" club. A club that expects a good cup run and are in europe. Like a leverkusen, Dortmund, the top portugese teams or the top Serie A teams would be perfect.

 

Find this argument a bit mad to be honest.

 

He has fucking Bournemouth in 6th and still in Champions League contention. Bournemouth! That's with losing Semenyo, Huijsen, Kerkez, Zabarnyi and Ouattara.

 

It's an incredible achievement.

[LFEE]

8 hours ago, Milburn said:

I understand the PSR point, but that still doesn’t really explain why the football itself has become so stale and predictable.

 

Tactical flexibility, in-game management, adapting to opponents, using technical players properly, changing shape when things clearly aren’t working… those things don’t require another £200m.

 

I think that’s probably where we fundamentally disagree. You mainly see the limitations in the squad, while I increasingly see the manager as the main limitation. I’m absolutely convinced that Guardiola, Arteta, Klopp and, for that matter, Emery would all have got far more out of this squad this season than Howe has managed.

 

I’d argue the managers you’ve mentioned haven’t evolved. They’ve just been able recycle the squad easier and cover up their mistakes in the transfer market whereas as we haven’t been able too.

 

Seem to recall Howe beat Pep in the league at home this season (?) was robbed of another home victory due to not getting a penalty (Gabriel hand ball) then two defensive injuries late in the game leaving us not as organised as we had been first 85mins leading to two headed goals and probably should’ve at least got a point in the away fixture with Arsenal scoring a screamer from 25 yards and nothing else. We should also of beat Villa first game of the season with Villa happy to hang on at home to a point and we beat them in the Cup away from home.

 

The way you go on it’s as if we are miles off it. We aren’t in reality. Just one of them seasons where we moments have went against us, confidence has been dented, injuries in a small squad at bad times. I’m sure Howe has made some mistakes too but ALL managers do throughout a season.

 

You accept in the league 8th is par for our wage bill though don’t you?

[Lush Vlad]

26 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

Find this argument a bit mad to be honest.

 

He has fucking Bournemouth in 6th and still in Champions League contention. Bournemouth! That's with losing Semenyo, Huijsen, Kerkez, Zabarnyi and Ouattara.

 

It's an incredible achievement.

This. 
 

People forgetting that when he gets his move to a bigger/richer club. He will have more to spend on players and a bigger squad. 
 

He’s been fantastic for them and he deserves a chance to manage a club in Europe. 

[Elliottman]

[Robster]

43 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said:

This. 
 

People forgetting that when he gets his move to a bigger/richer club. He will have more to spend on players and a bigger squad. 
 

He’s been fantastic for them and he deserves a chance to manage a club in Europe. 

In my mind, the unknown quantity is the pressure and expectation that comes at a bigger club. The difference between Bournemouth and Liverpool is unbelievably huge, obviously. Only a small number of managers can handle it.

Ego and attitude of players at the biggest clubs is impossibly difficult. 

Alonso clearly couldn't handle it at Madrid.

[CallumG6]

Alonso to Chelsea I think will work out longer term, great appointment for them, annoyingly.

[Ben]

Aye the Spanish really have cornered the market for great managers 

[Lush Vlad]

2 hours ago, Robster said:

In my mind, the unknown quantity is the pressure and expectation that comes at a bigger club. The difference between Bournemouth and Liverpool is unbelievably huge, obviously. Only a small number of managers can handle it.

Ego and attitude of players at the biggest clubs is impossibly difficult. 

Alonso clearly couldn't handle it at Madrid.

Of course he might not handle it. But he deserves a chance at a bigger club, as I said. Only one way to find out. 
 

My point was more that I find it odd that people seem really keen to downplay his achievements at Bournemouth. The same way some of our fans have started to do so with Howe at Bournemouth and to a leaser degree. What he has done here. 

[Kid Icarus]

Alonso's a good appointment but it's another case of them needing to get the new expensive toy, but in manager form. His style of management doesn't strike me as fitting in with their structure where the manager basically has no say in player recruitment and is in charge of coaching and taking the flack when it goes to shit.

 

 

Edited May 17 by Kid Icarus

[Mole]

If they allow him to do his job it will be a great appointment, the concern for them is will the players even allow him to do that without egos interfering? I could see a Mini Madrid situation forming because that club is a mess.

 

He's obviously a good coach though so if he's allowed to do that it will probably work out very well but that's a big IF.

[Milburn]

4 hours ago, LFEE said:

 

I’d argue the managers you’ve mentioned haven’t evolved. They’ve just been able recycle the squad easier and cover up their mistakes in the transfer market whereas as we haven’t been able too.

 

Seem to recall Howe beat Pep in the league at home this season (?) was robbed of another home victory due to not getting a penalty (Gabriel hand ball) then two defensive injuries late in the game leaving us not as organised as we had been first 85mins leading to two headed goals and probably should’ve at least got a point in the away fixture with Arsenal scoring a screamer from 25 yards and nothing else. We should also of beat Villa first game of the season with Villa happy to hang on at home to a point and we beat them in the Cup away from home.

 

The way you go on it’s as if we are miles off it. We aren’t in reality. Just one of them seasons where we moments have went against us, confidence has been dented, injuries in a small squad at bad times. I’m sure Howe has made some mistakes too but ALL managers do throughout a season.

 

You accept in the league 8th is par for our wage bill though don’t you?

I think this is where we probably just view football differently.

 

To me, evolution isn’t just about replacing players more easily. It’s about adapting tactically, finding new solutions, changing structures, tweaking roles and still remaining difficult to play against even when injuries hit or confidence drops. Just look at Iraola at Bournemouth. They lost several key players and still managed to evolve and stay competitive in the race for Champions League places.

 

Of course Howe has had some good results against top managers. Most decent managers do across a season. But isolated results against City, Arsenal or Villa don’t really change the overall trend for me, which is that over the last 12-13 months we’ve become increasingly predictable and easier to nullify.

 

And yes, all managers make mistakes. The concern for me is that Howe keeps making the same ones.

 

And I honestly don’t think my expectations are unrealistic at all. I’m not demanding title challenges or anything absurd. But finishing in the bottom half and only really securing safety a few rounds before the end is miles below where this club should be after the money spent and the trajectory we looked to be on a couple of years ago.

[Leemond]

4 hours ago, Elliottman said:

We should have been all over this weeks ago.

[Fak]

Just now, Leemond said:

We should have been all over this weeks ago.

 

Why when we had a manager?

[Leemond]

Just now, Fak said:

 

Why when we had a manager?

Because we should have gotten rid of Howe a couple of months ago.

 

Think we'll regret not even attempting to bring him in.

[Fak]

Just now, Leemond said:

Think we'll regret not even attempting to bring him in.

 

That doesn't make sense. 

 

So let's say we did make an attempt to bring him in (and failed), how would we regret that?

[Leemond]

1 minute ago, Fak said:

 

That doesn't make sense. 

 

So let's say we did make an attempt to bring him in (and failed), how would we regret that?

Because now we'll never know.

 

He would have been perfect for us.

[Fak]

Just now, Leemond said:

Because now we'll never know. He would have been perfect for us.

 

Never know what? I don't see how we could ever regret being knocked back by an appointment.

[Ben]

I wonder if Pep is packing in after next weekend ?

[Geogaddi]

6 minutes ago, Leemond said:

Because we should have gotten rid of Howe a couple of months ago.

 

Think we'll regret not even attempting to bring him in.

He wouldn't have came here in a million years, whatever Chelsea are paying him will be a lot more than anything we could have afforded .

[Fak]

Just now, Geogaddi said:

He wouldn't have came here in a million years, whatever Chelsea are paying him will be a lot more than anything we could have afforded .

 

Yes but we will regret not asking him!!.....somehow

[Robster]

43 minutes ago, Leemond said:

Because now we'll never know.

 

He would have been perfect for us.

Do you remember last summer when we and Chelsea (and the rest of the cartel) went after the same target?

I don't want to replace Eddie but Alonso coming here would never have been an option.

[andycap]

48 minutes ago, Geogaddi said:

He wouldn't have came here in a million years, whatever Chelsea are paying him will be a lot more than anything we could have afforded .

How do you know that? 😂 

He might of been up for it coming to the toon. 

[SUPERTOON]

Alonso wanted full control, Chelsea have changed their policy for him. I am assuming those who think Howe has too much control here wouldn't want Alonso for the same reason?