The Managerial Merry Go Round™ - Vitor Pereira to Wolves

[Froggy]

6 minutes ago, midds said:

Fair play, you know far more about the club than most on here but all of that above doesn't hint at a settled and happy squad. Some of the performances I've seen Man U put in this season have been some of the worst, tepid, disorganised, flat and utterly shit I've seen from that team going back to the 80s tbph. They have phoned it in many, many times over the last year or so and if that's indicative of a squad that's behind the manager then you've got a lot to be worried about imo. 8th in the League and a negative goal difference is really poor when the bar is so high  

 

Make no mistake, there were a lot of absolutely awful performances, and ones where it was entirely the managers fault. The team always did what was asked though. For 80% of the season that was playing kamikaze Ten Hag ball where they were being asked to press high and do full pitch sprints every two minutes. 

 

I'm usually all for a manager implementing their style and refusing to change, but with the injuries we had that wasn't viable. I'm glad he went more defensive in the final moments of the season or we would have been torn to shreds and finished 9th rather than finishing 8th with a trophy. 

 

He'll get his centre back, defensive midfielder and striker in the summer and with the important players fit, he'll need to deliver top four at a minimum or he'll likely be sacked unless he wins the Europa League. 

 

Just because we wanted him to stay doesn't mean we were entirely happy with how that season went. 

[Ben]

I can't help thinking Leicester will come out this summer better off.

[gbandit]

Indeed, if they land Potter then that’s an upgrade 

[relámpago blanco]

14 minutes ago, gbandit said:

Indeed, if they land Potter then that’s an upgrade 

It is. 

[Sibierski]

But then they have Faes at CB and a 45 year old Vardy up front. Think 45 points would be their total, so their points deduction will make it twitchy for them.

[Nobody]

2 hours ago, Froggy said:

 

Make no mistake, there were a lot of absolutely awful performances, and ones where it was entirely the managers fault. The team always did what was asked though. For 80% of the season that was playing kamikaze Ten Hag ball where they were being asked to press high and do full pitch sprints every two minutes. 

 

I'm usually all for a manager implementing their style and refusing to change, but with the injuries we had that wasn't viable. I'm glad he went more defensive in the final moments of the season or we would have been torn to shreds and finished 9th rather than finishing 8th with a trophy. 

 

He'll get his centre back, defensive midfielder and striker in the summer and with the important players fit, he'll need to deliver top four at a minimum or he'll likely be sacked unless he wins the Europa League. 

 

Just because we wanted him to stay doesn't mean we were entirely happy with how that season went. 

Im watching a completely different team to you like. Kamikaze high press is the absolute last thing I think about whenever I've seen Man U under him. Defensive, boring, weak attempts at counter attacking football is much more how Id describe it. 

 

[Kid Icarus]

Aye, that's the "What are your faults?" "Well maybe I'm too much of perfectionist" answer in an interview where the camera zooms out and they've turned up in shorts and a t-shirt.

[Pata]

4 hours ago, Froggy said:

He'll get his centre back, defensive midfielder and striker in the summer

 

This is pure  but he just spent €57m on Lisandro Martinez (who is class tbf but not exactly a bargain), €70m on Casemiro and €74m on Hojlund. Think you would like a new RW too despite EtH already spending €95m on Antony.

 

I know some don't care about expected points but he just had Man United finishing 15th in expected points ffs. Yeah, injuries and stuff but at the same time Eddie had us at 4th despite at least a similar injury crisis and with a squad that has seen nowhere near the same level of investment. Wages are not even in the same ballpark. It's stunning that so many Man Utd fans are happy too see him get another season but I'm personally very happy about it.

 

 

Edited June 12 by Pata

[toon25]

1 hour ago, Nobody said:

Im watching a completely different team to you like. Kamikaze high press is the absolute last thing I think about whenever I've seen Man U under him. Defensive, boring, weak attempts at counter attacking football is much more how Id describe it. 

 

Aye. There was absolutely no discernable style of play whenever I watched them. 

[Froggy]

7 hours ago, Nobody said:

Im watching a completely different team to you like. Kamikaze high press is the absolute last thing I think about whenever I've seen Man U under him. Defensive, boring, weak attempts at counter attacking football is much more how Id describe it. 

 

 

Of course, because you don't really watch us and when you do, like others, you do it with a bit between your teeth and want to see faults everywhere you look. 

 

Fact remains, we've had the highest counter press success rate in the league the last two years running. We've had the most possession won in the final third and middle of the pitch. We had the second most pressing sequences in the league this year. It would be quite incredible to have those stats being a defensive side.

 

We are absolutely anything but boring. your comment just proves you either don't watch us at all or you simply don't know what you're talking about. 

 

I don't watch many Newcastle games. But what I read on here suggests you're a high intensity team. You had the intensity of a wet fart in the cup final last year. You had the intensity of a wet shart at Old Trafford in a must win game against a defence of Casemiro and Jonny Evans. You're not in Europe because of that game. Should I base my opinion on those? It seems like that's what you're doing with us.

 

 

Edited June 13 by Froggy

[Froggy]

7 hours ago, Kid Icarus said:

Aye, that's the "What are your faults?" "Well maybe I'm too much of perfectionist" answer in an interview where the camera zooms out and they've turned up in shorts and a t-shirt.

 

It's not that at all though. It's a negative. It's effective when you're a high possession side. When you're conceding 55/60% of the ball and still pressing that much and that high you're going to fade and leave huge gaps which is what we saw all year. 

 

It's just a response to short sighted comments about no style of play. We absolutely have a style of play under Ten Hag. Aside from the last few games of the season where he went more defensive, we had the same style of player all year which was to press high, turnover high and counter. We were poor though, and instead wasted opportunities and then got ran through on the counter. 

[Froggy]

6 hours ago, Pata said:

 

This is pure  but he just spent €57m on Lisandro Martinez (who is class tbf but not exactly a bargain), €70m on Casemiro and €74m on Hojlund. Think you would like a new RW too despite EtH already spending €95m on Antony.

 

I know some don't care about expected points but he just had Man United finishing 15th in expected points ffs. Yeah, injuries and stuff but at the same time Eddie had us at 4th despite at least a similar injury crisis and with a squad that has seen nowhere near the same level of investment. Wages are not even in the same ballpark. It's stunning that so many Man Utd fans are happy too see him get another season but I'm personally very happy about it.

 

And finally you, Sir Pata.

 

Martinez was a bargain for starters. He's incredible, and integral to the way Ten Hag wants to play. The only way you can suggest he's not worth every penny and more is because he's spent significant time on the injury table. Regardless, he was signed to be a partner for Varane. Varane is now gone, so a new CB is required.

 

Casemiro. Ten Hag didn't want him. Everyone knows this. He was a panic buy because we couldn't sign anyone else. He was quality in his first season, but either his legs have gone or he's checked out or both. Either way, we need a defensive midfielder now, as Amrabat will likely leave in the summer also. We literally do not have one.

 

Hojlund was signed to share time with Martial and grow as a player. He ended up being the only striker all year. He's great, and will have a class future, but it's far too much pressure for a 21 year old to play 50-60 games a year as the lone striker. We needed a striker all season to support him, we just didn't have any money to be able to sign one in January. Not even a Weghorst.

 

Yes, ETH wanted Antony, and he's shit. His price was €40m when Ten Hag asked for him. We tried to negotiate, left it too late, Ajax dug their heels in and we ended up making one of the worst signings in Premier League history.

 

Also, the injuries. I've addressed this another thread. I'm trying to be kind. Our injuries were much worse than yours. We had more individual injuries, more individual players out injured, more players injured in a specific role. I've looked further into it to counteract the "days lost" stat, which is the only metric where you were above us injury wise. It doesn't include any injuries that were in place before the start of the season. That means Malacia, Mainoo, Diallo, Hojlund etc. all not included in that stat, which is around 16 months worth of injuries as well.

 

Also, we all know wor Eddie did a great job this season. The same way Ten Hag did a great job last year given the mess he came into. Ignore the fact Ten Hag has won two trophies for a second. If Howe has a bad season next year and finishes say 12th or 13th, would you be calling for his head or would you back him? What if rival fans started laughing at you saying it's great that you're keeping Howe as you were so bad. Would you think they were complete morons who didn't have the slightest clue what they were talking about? Hopefully you see what I'm getting at here.

[gdm]

fuckin outstanding. No other manager was approached after the cup final tho apparently 

[Froggy]

2 minutes ago, gdm said:

fuckin outstanding. No other manager was approached after the cup final tho apparently 

 

You keep quoting Daily Mail articles by Piers Morgan's son.  What are you doing gdm?

[GeordieDazzler]

I mean he’ll have literally been listening in on Jim’s phone calls so a pretty solid source imo 

[Froggy]

4 minutes ago, GeordieDazzler said:

I mean he’ll have literally been listening in on Jim’s phone calls so a pretty solid source imo 

 

 He's a little fucking dweeb. It's killing me seeing his work shared on here. 

[gdm]

11 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

You keep quoting Daily Mail articles by Piers Morgan's son.  What are you doing gdm?

Fair point. Thing is would anyone be surprised if it’s true? 

[Froggy]

Just now, gdm said:

Fair point. Thing is would anyone be surprised if it’s true? 

 

I'd personally be delighted if we were tightening the purse strings a bit, but it's definitely not true.  While I don't think we'll be firing out £350k pw contracts for a while, we're still going to pay players and managers a hefty chunk more than 99% of clubs.

 

Our budget isn't £35m either, it's at least double that. I think that £35m figure originally came from Morgan as well, the lying little prick.

[gdm]

7 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

I'd personally be delighted if we were tightening the purse strings a bit, but it's definitely not true.  While I don't think we'll be firing out £350k pw contracts for a while, we're still going to pay players and managers a hefty chunk more than 99% of clubs.

 

Our budget isn't £35m either, it's at least double that. I think that £35m figure originally came from Morgan as well, the lying little prick.

All I can go off is the Ashworth situation and offering £2m then £3m for a guy that cost £6m only 18 months or so ago suggests they don’t have much money 

[Ghandis Flip-Flop]

47 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

And finally you, Sir Pata.

 

Martinez was a bargain for starters. He's incredible, and integral to the way Ten Hag wants to play. The only way you can suggest he's not worth every penny and more is because he's spent significant time on the injury table. Regardless, he was signed to be a partner for Varane. Varane is now gone, so a new CB is required.

 

Casemiro. Ten Hag didn't want him. Everyone knows this. He was a panic buy because we couldn't sign anyone else. He was quality in his first season, but either his legs have gone or he's checked out or both. Either way, we need a defensive midfielder now, as Amrabat will likely leave in the summer also. We literally do not have one.

 

Hojlund was signed to share time with Martial and grow as a player. He ended up being the only striker all year. He's great, and will have a class future, but it's far too much pressure for a 21 year old to play 50-60 games a year as the lone striker. We needed a striker all season to support him, we just didn't have any money to be able to sign one in January. Not even a Weghorst.

 

Yes, ETH wanted Antony, and he's shit. His price was €40m when Ten Hag asked for him. We tried to negotiate, left it too late, Ajax dug their heels in and we ended up making one of the worst signings in Premier League history.

 

Also, the injuries. I've addressed this another thread. I'm trying to be kind. Our injuries were much worse than yours. We had more individual injuries, more individual players out injured, more players injured in a specific role. I've looked further into it to counteract the "days lost" stat, which is the only metric where you were above us injury wise. It doesn't include any injuries that were in place before the start of the season. That means Malacia, Mainoo, Diallo, Hojlund etc. all not included in that stat, which is around 16 months worth of injuries as well.

 

Also, we all know wor Eddie did a great job this season. The same way Ten Hag did a great job last year given the mess he came into. Ignore the fact Ten Hag has won two trophies for a second. If Howe has a bad season next year and finishes say 12th or 13th, would you be calling for his head or would you back him? What if rival fans started laughing at you saying it's great that you're keeping Howe as you were so bad. Would you think they were complete morons who didn't have the slightest clue what they were talking about? Hopefully you see what I'm getting at here.

Please don’t come anywhere near me when I’m in work, as if you come out with something like that in person, I think I’d be off to sort out an MHO and Consultant Psychiatrist and be looking for an inpatient bed.

 

i particularly like the idea that the reason you guys have failed the eye test for the past two years, is purely because everybody hate Man Utd. I hate to break it you, but I hate Liverpool and Arsenal too, but I can see they have an identity and structure on the pitch. You lot are like Steve Bruce's Newcastle with higher quality players.

[Froggy]

2 minutes ago, gdm said:

All I can go off is the Ashworth situation and offering £2m then £3m for a guy that cost £6m only 18 months or so ago suggests they don’t have much money 

 

I don't see it that way. We have other executives in place and this isn't a sprint. Why would we overpay for someone who desperately wants to join us and can do so for free in 12 months time? 

 

I'd have been incredibly unhappy at us wasting a fortune to bring him in early.

[Froggy]

2 minutes ago, Ghandis Flip-Flop said:

You lot are like Steve Bruce's Newcastle with higher quality players.

 

And trophies.

[Ghandis Flip-Flop]

Just now, Froggy said:

 

And trophies.

One of which you traditionally wouldn’t have bothered trying for, if you weren't a million miles away from challenging for the league 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Froggy]

Just now, Ghandis Flip-Flop said:

One of which you traditionally wouldn’t have bothered trying for, if you weren't a million miles away from challenging for the league 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

Time to stop living in the past isn't it? No, the league cup didn't hold great importance when we were winning the league every other year, but when you haven't won a trophy in 6 years a league cup is massively appreciated. The FA Cup even more so. 

 

Starting to downplay trophies is a really bad look. 

[Kid Icarus]

1 hour ago, Froggy said:

 

It's not that at all though. It's a negative. It's effective when you're a high possession side. When you're conceding 55/60% of the ball and still pressing that much and that high you're going to fade and leave huge gaps which is what we saw all year. 

 

It's just a response to short sighted comments about no style of play. We absolutely have a style of play under Ten Hag. Aside from the last few games of the season where he went more defensive, we had the same style of player all year which was to press high, turnover high and counter. We were poor though, and instead wasted opportunities and then got ran through on the counter. 

 

If you mean that the press was so poor that it was mostly unrecognisable as a press (at least compared to Arsenal, Man City, even us) then I take the point, but I watched a ton of Man United matches last season (obv not as much as you) and in your worst performances I can't say kamikaze pressing stood out to me as a root cause of your problems. Definitely not as much as lack of possession, sloppiness in possession, and conceding space and chances.