DJ_NUFC Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 I'm not in two minds about him. I'm of a singular mind that he needs to fuck off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucaAltieri Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Sorry Luca, you're way off. You've bought the lie repeated often enough by the clown in charge about HBA and now it's become the truth for you. Almost everything you've said goes against how flair players are managed, and how we've seen they can be managed by actual managers who have a spine and creativity to play positive football. You've bought into Pardew's thinking, ignoring that KK and SBR managed flair players far better and included them in their teams most of the time. Even SBR dropped some of our attacking players where the team needed it, but never froze them out and publicly shamed them for not fucking "defending from the front," as much as this fool in charge does. Pardew's found his scapegoat and people are happy to believe anything he says. Like I've said repeatedly, I'd probably have him in my team most weeks. I'm just acknowledging that there are legitimate reasons to not play him, too. To listen to some on here you'd think he was getting a goal and a couple of assists every time he plays. He's a risk that our squad can't always afford. It's a little easier for good squads to accommodate flair players than it is for a squad with limited ability. We're hoping for some of our players to play above themselves half the time. Should they also have to pick up slack for others? And once again, I don't actually watch Pardew's pressers and the odd few that I have caught I take with a pinch of salt. There's balance to be had in this argument and a lot of you seem to completely lack it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_NUFC Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Nobody's arguing the old horses for courses adage, good management requires it. Pardew has constantly, openly lambasted our most creative player instead of building a fucking team around him and making him the fulcrum of our attack the past few years. This is criminal and unacceptable from a manager. Fucking Hayden Mullins, shit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucaAltieri Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 There's a reason other clubs aren't kicking down our down trying to sign a player that Pardew obviously has issues with. That's enough for me to assume that maybe Pardew isn't just being a complete moron over HBA. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_NUFC Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 You're ignoring his track record at West Ham with Mascherano and Tevez then? I'm sure there are convenient excuses for that too that he's trotted out which people will buy into. Those two players kept them up once this fool was sacked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattoon Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 When he's on the pitch he pushes the wing backs into their own half and usually ties up at least two players to mark him, if that's not defending from the front then what is? When we've got Sissoko on we're the ones pushed back, our wing backs inevitably become 3rd and 4th centre backs and Sissoko defends our final third on the wing. We lose the ball and retreat, stay compact and try and soak up pressure, we might defend from the front but the front is about 10 yards short of the half way line!? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucaAltieri Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 You're ignoring his track record at West Ham with Mascherano and Tevez then? I'm sure there are convenient excuses for that too that he's trotted out which people will buy into. Those two players kept them up once this fool was sacked. Tevez was definitely a player he should have been playing. But even at Liverpool it took Mascherano quite a while before he looked like a Premier League player. He was right to use him sparingly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Hasnt this all been said? Gouffran has been specifically at fault for goals recently & is far poorer than Ben Arfa offensively. Thats ignoring the difference in motivation of a player who hasnt been playing, in the lead up to a world cup, with far higher potential in his ability & after recently setting up several massively clear goal scoring chances. In a side who are struggling for goals. Theres no debate to be had. Pardew aims set pieces at a defender who hasnt scored in 5+ years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 The Tevez/Mascherano stuff is just nonsense to me. For one Mascherano was made for Pardew's cowardly defensive tactics, secondly they wouldn't be the first players who took a while to settle into a new league especially at that age. Half a season of settling in makes sense with some players, even Debuchy a French international right back at 26/27 took that time to adapt so I don't know how any Newcastle fan can still bang that tired old drum. That said the Ben Arfa situation is absolutely ridiculous. I don't rate him as highly as some but there is no way he shouldn't be playing. I have no doubt he can be difficult, he seems to have been even from youth level but with the creativity we have in this squad now (not to mention Remy missing) it is moronic he isn't starting every game even if he doesn't perform a miracle in every one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 You're ignoring his track record at West Ham with Mascherano and Tevez then? I'm sure there are convenient excuses for that too that he's trotted out which people will buy into. Those two players kept them up once this fool was sacked. Tevez was definitely a player he should have been playing. But even at Liverpool it took Mascherano quite a while before he looked like a Premier League player. He was right to use him sparingly. nah man, not when you're west ham and you're looking like you'll be relegated Wasn't that long ago Simpson was better than Debuchy on here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 The Tevez/Mascherano stuff is just nonsense to me. For one Mascherano was made for Pardew's cowardly defensive tactics, secondly they wouldn't be the first players who took a while to settle into a new league especially at that age. Half a season of settling in makes sense with some players, even Debuchy a French international right back at 26/27 took that time to adapt so I don't know how any Newcastle fan can still bang that tired old drum. That said the Ben Arfa situation is absolutely ridiculous. I don't rate him as highly as some but there is no way he shouldn't be playing. I have no doubt he can be difficult, he seems to have been even from youth level but with the creativity we have in this squad now (not to mention Remy missing) it is moronic he isn't starting every game even if he doesn't perform a miracle in every one. Agree on both counts. The Tevez/Masch thing doesn't mean anything IMO. On Ben Arfa, it's a mystery to me. Pardew has managed him reasonably well in the past, no idea why he's suddenly such a problem. Surely Pardew's whole philosophy depends on a match winner to play ahead of his solid, hard working unit? On theory he should want to utilise Ben Arfa to put the finishing touch onto his system. I know Ben Arfa is a complex person and it can't be denied that his personality and approach might be part of the problem as well. Basically nobody knows, but it's fucking annoying he isn't playing all the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 The Tevez/Mascherano stuff is just nonsense to me. For one Mascherano was made for Pardew's cowardly defensive tactics, secondly they wouldn't be the first players who took a while to settle into a new league especially at that age. Half a season of settling in makes sense with some players, even Debuchy a French international right back at 26/27 took that time to adapt so I don't know how any Newcastle fan can still bang that tired old drum. That said the Ben Arfa situation is absolutely ridiculous. I don't rate him as highly as some but there is no way he shouldn't be playing. I have no doubt he can be difficult, he seems to have been even from youth level but with the creativity we have in this squad now (not to mention Remy missing) it is moronic he isn't starting every game even if he doesn't perform a miracle in every one. Agree on both counts. The Tevez/Masch thing doesn't mean anything IMO. On Ben Arfa, it's a mystery to me. Pardew has managed him reasonably well in the past, no idea why he's suddenly such a problem. Surely Pardew's whole philosophy depends on a match winner to play ahead of his solid, hard working unit? On theory he should want to utilise Ben Arfa to put the finishing touch onto his system. I know Ben Arfa is a complex person and it can't be denied that his personality and approach might be part of the problem as well. Basically nobody knows, but it's fucking annoying he isn't playing all the time. Pardew can't help fucking about with things, HBA was playing on the right, tracking back and still playing some brilliant football then Pardew decided to change things up. Suddenly HBA wasn't doing what he was before and somehow got the blame. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 I don't think that Pardew has managed him reasonably well at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 I don't think that Pardew has managed him reasonably well at all. He was for a while imo but now it has gone from "Ahh look at Fred West getting up in the middle of the night to soothe his crying child" to "Buried in the fucking garden!?". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 On Ben Arfa, it's a mystery to me. Pardew has managed him reasonably well in the past, no idea why he's suddenly such a problem. Not meaning to be a cunt like, but this sentence is pretty galling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 I don't think that Pardew has managed him reasonably well at all. He was for a while imo but now it has gone from "Ahh look at Fred West getting up in the middle of the night to soothe his crying child" to "Buried in the fucking garden!?". I'm guessing you mean when he wasn't playing him during the season we finished 5th? Obviously cannot be arsed to reignite that debate but surely after another year of the same shit it's pretty clear what was going on back then, and it wasn't Pardew trying to ease Hatem back in gently, he just flat out didn't want to play him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 I don't think that Pardew has managed him reasonably well at all. He was for a while imo but now it has gone from "Ahh look at Fred West getting up in the middle of the night to soothe his crying child" to "Buried in the fucking garden!?". I'm guessing you mean when he wasn't playing him during the season we finished 5th? Obviously cannot be arsed to reignite that debate but surely after another year of the same shit it's pretty clear what was going on back then, and it wasn't Pardew trying to ease Hatem back in gently, he just flat out didn't want to play him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 fair play, just read the post back and realised what I'd done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Benefit of what doubt over Ben Arfa? Frankly I couldn't give a fuck if he rapes Pardews cat and pisses on his car every day. I don't care what his attitude is off the pitch, I can see with my own eyes that he creates chances when he's on the pitch so he should be starting. He creates chances for us and the opposing team because he isn't very disciplined. Sometimes he'll take the extra few touches and do something magical. Other times he's running down dead ends. I understand why some fans like him playing, but I also understand why a coach might be reluctant to play him. When does he create chance for the other team? I mean give me examples beyond the amount of times the likes of Gouffran or Tiote or numerous other players give the ball away and create chances for the other team. Sorry man but its a nonsense, a myth. As for running down dead ends, at his worst he pushes forward and actually threatens the opposition. Against Palace he came on and created more chances in 30 minutes than most had all game, three clear cut chances one of which we won the game from. Against Everton he came on on created our only real chance up till that point and that was 57 minutes in, laid it on a plate for Anita after some great skill and that should have gotten us back into the game. But nah forget that Pardew subbed him during a game again so the scapegoat can't be trusted, unlike that realiable lad Gouffran who in the same game passed the ball right accross our area and gave Southampton a clear run on goal which they should really have scored from, but he stays on the pitch despite giving it away, doing nothing down the other end and generally being shit, because he's one of Pards good tacklers. Pardew - like most modern, successful managers - likes to defend from the front. Our attacking players have defensive responsibilities forcing errors and limiting the opposition's time on the ball. For all he looks great with the ball at his feet, we have players who are stronger when it comes to hassling the opposition. That's part of why Ba was such a success here and why Shola's continued inclusion is baffling. Again, not saying HBA wouldn't be in my team. Just saying that him not playing every week isn't as criminal as some seem to believe. There are some games I'd want him nowhere near the pitch. Any tight games, like the games against the mackems, for example. He played both and offered nowt of note. Like when he came on against them in 2012 and turned the game around for us? He's a match winner and 10x the player anyone else in our squad is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 All our games wins are tight Luca. FYP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 On Ben Arfa, it's a mystery to me. Pardew has managed him reasonably well in the past, no idea why he's suddenly such a problem. Not meaning to be a cunt like, but this sentence is pretty galling. Strange choice of words. I don't actually have any input you know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Think it's fairly obvious that he's not go the first clue how to get the best out of Ben Arfa. He doesn't know where to play him, he doesn't trust him and he can't motivate him. To mask his own failings he's frozen the lad out and we'll end up selling him on for a pittance because the daft cunt is atrocious at his job. All of that is pretty disgusting but the fact it's inevitably going to be spun as getting a rotten egg out when he moves on is beyond disgraceful. Good managers can deal with talented, possibly moody, players and get the best out of them. The wank managers sell them on because they're not good enough to do their job. Guess which category this slimy prick falls into. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Problem for Pardew is that he's burned his bridges with Ben Arfa and now looks like a mug every time he recalls him due to injuries or a bad set of results. You wouldn't blame him to put in a half arsed display if he's picked tomorrow, but I think he'll still give it a good go personally. He strikes me as a player who just likes to be on the ball making things happen. I would love to see him for once just given licence to pick the ball up and run at the opposition in their half without worrying about stopping their full back. We're going to lose anyway, might as well see some glimpses of HBA magic while we can. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Think it's fairly obvious that he's not go the first clue how to get the best out of Ben Arfa. He doesn't know where to play him, he doesn't trust him and he can't motivate him. To mask his own failings he's frozen the lad out and we'll end up selling him on for a pittance because the daft c*** is atrocious at his job. All of that is pretty disgusting but the fact it's inevitably going to be spun as getting a rotten egg out when he moves on is beyond disgraceful. Good managers can deal with talented, possibly moody, players and get the best out of them. The w*** managers sell them on because they're not good enough to do their job. Guess which category this slimy prick falls into. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucaAltieri Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Problem for Pardew is that he's burned his bridges with Ben Arfa and now looks like a mug every time he recalls him due to injuries or a bad set of results. You wouldn't blame him to put in a half arsed display if he's picked tomorrow, but I think he'll still give it a good go personally. He strikes me as a player who just likes to be on the ball making things happen. I would love to see him for once just given licence to pick the ball up and run at the opposition in their half without worrying about stopping their full back. We're going to lose anyway, might as well see some glimpses of HBA magic while we can. That's largely my approach to it, too. With the kids I coach you always want to get them to try shit, even if it doesn't work out. But I suppose my remit is to make them better players, not to win high stakes premier league matches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts