themanupstairs Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 How many times have we scored 3 goals or more under Pardew? 15 times in 112 league matches. How many times have we won by two goals or more. ? Howay, I'm not that bored. Watch the match again mate, you'll be begging bimpy for more stats to look up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 no doubt, i'm just not so sure that many of the managers we could get could do much better with what we have. i'd love us to get a a pochettino but I haven't a clue right now on up and coming euro talent. Fair enough, we're not miles apart, I just don't know why you defend him when you will be watching the games that I do. i don't defend him all the time, i think he fucked up today with colo and shola which I said pre match (not post match wisdom), he has been too defensive at times, particularly last season when he was shitting himself, but too many on here play the relentless game of "everythings his fault". what i mean is i'll slag him off when i think he deserves it, i'll not slag him off because i've found a quote or whatever and i've picked it aparrt to find a way to twist it to have a go at him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 West Ham 3-0 Fulham Everton 4-0 Stoke West Brom 3-0 mackems Southampton 4-1 Hull Swansea 4-0 mackems Swansea 3-0 Newcastle Palace 1-4 Fulham All just from this season. You don't need to be a fantastic side to give someone the occasional hoofing. "There are no easy games in this league" - clearly there are. I could easily extend this list by including games in the Europa League and the League Cup too as we've frequently shown how disinterested we are in even giving some genuine minnows a pasting. Where did Liverpool finish last season, 7th? A decent upper-midtable side who won by 3 clear goals in the league on 9 occasions whilst we scrabble round attempting to hang onto 1 goal leads against everyone, no matter who they are. That's nice but aren't we above all those teams bar Everton? Although I realise looking at the league table is largely frowned upon. It's always nice to deliver a good bumming, but it's not particularly important. Bumming is of the utmost importance in life. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Pards got the tactics spot on today IMO - the same tactics that saw us beat Swansea last year and win 4 on the bounce just this season. The players let him down today, and the luck went against us and a bad referee too. FWIW on another day we'd have nicked this 1-0. Krul let us down. Let's just get behind Pards and hope for a reaction to the end of this glorious run and a wave too. The same tactics that has been criticized by plenty on here even after four wins... I was going to leave that for tonight and bring it up tomorrow but the claim of sitting back "all the time" after taking a lead etc, I watched west brom-villa the other week, west brom 2-0 up at half time and the second half they got battered, was that because they sat back or two teams without a gulf between them and when one takes a lead the other has more of a need to attack a bit more (like the start of the second half tonight actually). i don't think we have tactics to do that constantly, we have done it at times and we've normally paid for it, but most times it's the natural way of things like we witnessed on the box at the hawthorns. Yep, happened in one game involving 2 different teams that madras saw so we can discount it happening before our eyes as "the natural way of things" in almost every game under Pardew in which we've taken the lead. i used a recent game many would have saw as an example, you don't think it's natural that a team after going a goal down pushes on a bit more ? we saw that we did tonight got caught doing it but we did. Of course it happens to a degree but as usual you're treating situations as black and white, one or the other. When we have a lead we regularly go from playing some very decent football indeed to not being able/willing to string 2 passes together, switching to hoofing as the only means of defending, sitting 10 yards further back, and generally inviting pressure. There's no way it's a coincidence that this happens to the extent that it does under Pardew as you suggest, and I'm basing that on 20 years of watching football matches including NUFC ones and seeing trends rather than 1 game in the Midlands. naturally you know I'm basing it on longer, to my mind it;s a mix of things, the team going a goal down will want to push, the other team will be expecting this, it's not a tactic. hoofing was a problem last year but watch other teams, they do it aswell when under pressure. fwiw i do think we suffer from struggling to handle the pressure that other teams naturally put on after going a goal down, also why we struggle after going a goa l behind but it's not necessarily tactical, it's the players being quite one paced in that they can't up the tempo for longer periods that are needed. I wasn't trying to have a competition on who had watched football longer, i.e. who's older. I just think you're wrong, I think certainly you'll encounter more of a backlash when you go in front but under Keegan, Robson and even the likes of Roeder at times there'd be plenty of games where we'd go in front then go on to win the game comfortably, generally playing in a similar way from start to finish. Pardew has been here 3 years and if I thought really hard I could probably only give you a handful of times when that's occurred, tops. But nah, it's not a tactic. I understand what you mean...........but (you knew that was coming didncha ?) I don't think he'd use a tactic which has failed so often for him, then what, what if it's the players ? why do you think we struggle when we go a goal down, are the tactics still to defend ? The tactics appear to be to nick a goal then perhaps another then defend it for our lives, cancel the game out as a spectator sport at best and come unstuck at worst. There isn't much of a Plan B when we go behind, the records show you that because we've rarely managed to turn that scenario into anything other than a loss. It's funny that you blame the players when our player turnover's been pretty high over the years that Pardew has been in charge, it's a bit of a mad coincidence that we keep buying these players that love hanging on for dear life every time they go ahead in a game. In fact I think it happened less in his first half season before he'd managed to implement his coaching methods, we actually did batter a few teams during that period. Anyway, for comparative purposes, Pardew's side vs Liverpool in 2010: Krul Simpson Jose Enrique Tiote Steven Taylor Campbell Barton Nolan Carroll Ameobi Gutierrez Pardew's side tonight: Krul Debuchy Williamson Coloccini Santon Tiote Cabaye Sissoko Gouffran Sh.Ameobi Remy Seems mad that it's the players like, when it's mainly completely different players. Krul must be influential as f*** in his insistence he wants to earn his wages each week. i thought you were a stalwart of the pardew has no say brigade ? why would he employ the same tactics all the time even when they f*** up, no matter how bad you think he is surely he'd think, "thats not worked week after week, change it a bit" ? Dunno mate, why would he? I've given you various reasons why I think it's a tactic/instruction, you're on to the bare bones of "It doesn't work so why would he do it?" Bringing Obertan on never works, in fact bothering with Obertan rarely has worked during the course of over 2 seasons, why does he do that? i'll give you obertan like, worked at blackburn but then again ferguson brought on djemba djemba a few times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 no doubt, i'm just not so sure that many of the managers we could get could do much better with what we have. i'd love us to get a a pochettino but I haven't a clue right now on up and coming euro talent. Fair enough, we're not miles apart, I just don't know why you defend him when you will be watching the games that I do. i don't defend him all the time, i think he f***ed up today with colo and shola which I said pre match (not post match wisdom), he has been too defensive at times, particularly last season when he was shitting himself, but too many on here play the relentless game of "everythings his fault". what i mean is i'll slag him off when i think he deserves it, i'll not slag him off because i've found a quote or whatever and i've picked it aparrt to find a way to twist it to have a go at him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 How come it's perfectly possible for teams to paste Newcastle United on a fairly regular basis but Newcastle United hardly ever paste others? 'No easy games'... apart from when you score first against the brittle Geordies. In those 112 league games where we've won by 3 clear goals or more 5 times, we've lost by the same margin 13 times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Sovereign states etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 e.g. Wigan, Swansea, Stoke. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Woohoo btw, I got given Obertan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Loving the embracing of stats. Keep it up boys. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Conceded 4 seven times, 5 twice, 6 once, 7 once. Scored 4 three times, 5 once*. *nearly three years ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foluwashola Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 West Ham 3-0 Fulham Everton 4-0 Stoke West Brom 3-0 mackems Southampton 4-1 Hull Swansea 4-0 mackems Swansea 3-0 Newcastle Palace 1-4 Fulham All just from this season. You don't need to be a fantastic side to give someone the occasional hoofing. "There are no easy games in this league" - clearly there are. I could easily extend this list by including games in the Europa League and the League Cup too as we've frequently shown how disinterested we are in even giving some genuine minnows a pasting. Where did Liverpool finish last season, 7th? A decent upper-midtable side who won by 3 clear goals in the league on 9 occasions whilst we scrabble round attempting to hang onto 1 goal leads against everyone, no matter who they are. That's nice but aren't we above all those teams bar Everton? Although I realise looking at the league table is largely frowned upon. It's always nice to deliver a good bumming, but it's not particularly important. Well we were discussing taking enjoyment from the matches, including our play, positivity and confidence of the players. So yeah it matters in this context. Areet, doubt fans of most those teams have been taking more enjoyment from this season than ourselves like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 ok Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 What is this sovereign state thing about? I'd assumed it was a pardew comment about clubs whos owners have bottomless pockets. But people seem to use it in the strangest of context sometimes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 i don't defend him all the time, i think he f***ed up today with colo and shola which I said pre match (not post match wisdom), he has been too defensive at times, particularly last season when he was shitting himself, but too many on here play the relentless game of "everythings his fault". what i mean is i'll slag him off when i think he deserves it, i'll not slag him off because i've found a quote or whatever and i've picked it aparrt to find a way to twist it to have a go at him. We lost 3-0 tonight and you're defending him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Loving the embracing of stats. Keep it up boys. I've personally never had a problem with your use of them, they can be of interest and of use and data analysis forms a big part of what I do for a living. Football is a very subjective thing though, stats will never prove the point alone. Your point about us playing less long balls has proven to be increasingly spot-on in terms of us clearly beginning to rely on the hoof less and less. I still don't enjoy watching our games much though, for many reasons that stats can't necessarily convey. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Conceded 4 six times, 5 twice, 6 once, 7 once. Scored 4 twice, 5 once*. *nearly three years ago. Ten absolute PASTINGS in less than three years. Regardless of anything else, his teams fall to bits regularly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 What is this sovereign state thing about? I'd assumed it was a pardew comment about clubs whos owners have bottomless pockets. But people seem to use it in the strangest of context sometimes. Sarcasm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Conceded 4 six times, 5 twice, 6 once, 7 once. Scored 4 three times, 5 once*. *nearly three years ago. And in the 15 Premier League games or so before Pardew was appointed we won 1 game 5-1 and another 6-0, just in case HF was after a recent comparison like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Loving the embracing of stats. Keep it up boys. That's the thing about stats. Anyone can use them to make useless but wankworthy points. Ironic don't you think? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Edited that, I missed the 4 we scored against Arsenal that time. Whilst conceding 4. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 i don't defend him all the time, i think he f***ed up today with colo and shola which I said pre match (not post match wisdom), he has been too defensive at times, particularly last season when he was shitting himself, but too many on here play the relentless game of "everythings his fault". what i mean is i'll slag him off when i think he deserves it, i'll not slag him off because i've found a quote or whatever and i've picked it aparrt to find a way to twist it to have a go at him. We lost 3-0 tonight and you're defending him. well you slag him off when we deservedly beat chelsea so Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 well you slag him off when we deservedly beat chelsea so I don't think I did slag him off, I just didn't see everything in the match as being perfect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 well you slag him off when we deservedly beat chelsea so I don't think I did slag him off, I just didn't see everything in the match as being perfect. i've never seen any game as being perfect. (closest was the 6-0 v barnsley the season keegan managed us up) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Loving the embracing of stats. Keep it up boys. That's the thing about stats. Anyone can use them to make useless but wankworthy points. Ironic don't you think? I don't think Dave's point is useless or wankworthy. It's quite illuminating but requires the context. Percentage of PL games won by two or more Bobby Robson 27/112 - 24% Alan Pardew 17/112 - 15% Prior to Pardew 14/112- 12% While Pardew is not as good as Bobby Robson (who is?) He is an improvement on the managers we had for 3 or 4 seasons prior to his arrival. At least on this narrow criteria. If he had won another 10 games over 3 years by 2 would it make him as good as Robson? Nah. I don't think it would even get half the forum off his back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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