Manchester United

[Heron]

Surely for a manager it is first and foremost important to find a winning (or not losing) solution with the existing set of players and then to transition slowly to your desired style of play through the signing of players who fit your philosophy.

 

For a 'How To...' guide see the 'Howe To...' guide.

[nufc4eva]

1 minute ago, Froggy said:

 

I don't think Dalot nor Mazraoui have the quality to play wing back in that system. Dalot is potentially capable on the right but is badly exposed on the left. There's just nobody else.

 

There's some stupid stat that we haven't not scored a goal when those two are wing backs, but when it's been Amad or Antony we've scored 9.

 

At the same time, he can't play Amad there as we don't have good enough #10's if Amad was to drop deeper, especially with Fernandes out.

 

Another fun stat: the last 4 games we've not had Fernandes - 0 goals.

 

I actually think we have the type of players to play that system with Hall and Livramento as wing backs and Tonali, Bruno in centre more than they do.

 

I get sticking by his principles and how he sees the game but a good coach would find a system to suit the players to start with and evolve it. Mind Howe has stuck with 433 pretty much throughout his time here but does change tactics in pressing, overloads etc.

[KaKa]

1 minute ago, Froggy said:

 

I don't think Dalot nor Mazraoui have the quality to play wing back in that system. Dalot is potentially capable on the right but is badly exposed on the left. There's just nobody else.

 

There's some stupid stat that we haven't not scored a goal when those two are wing backs, but when it's been Amad or Antony we've scored 9.

 

At the same time, he can't play Amad there as we don't have good enough #10's if Amad was to drop deeper, especially with Fernandes out.

 

Another fun stat: the last 4 games we've not had Fernandes - 0 goals.

 

 

Has he tried Anthony in that 10 spot instead? With Amad at wing back? Anthony doesn't seem able to take people on which he can probably get away with more in the 10 with Amad overlapping?

 

I feel like he needs to try some different combinations in those positions as that appears to be the main issue.

 

Even Garnacho in the wing back spots I don't think he has tried yet. Could he really be much worse than Dalot has been there?

[Heron]

2 minutes ago, nufc4eva said:

I actually think we have the type of players to play that system with Hall and Livramento as wing backs and Tonali, Bruno in centre more than they do.

 

I get sticking by his principles and how he sees the game but a good coach would find a system to suit the players to start with and evolve it. Mind Howe has stuck with 433 pretty much throughout his time here but does change tactics in pressing, overloads etc.

He hasn't though. Howe had us in an a lot more defensive set up when he first arrived and he built around our fortitude at the back from signings such as Trippier and Burn (then later adding Botman).

[Froggy]

1 minute ago, KaKa said:

 

Has he tried Anthony in that 10 spot instead? With Amad at wing back? Anthony doesn't seem able to take people on which he can probably get away with more in the 10 with Amad overlapping?

 

I feel like he needs to try some different combinations in those positions as that appears to be the main issue.

 

Even Garnacho in the wing back spots I don't think he has tried yet. Could he really be much worse than Dalot has been there?

 

Yeah I think Garnacho would be even worse. Garnacho is an out and out winger. He runs but he doesn't know how to press or defend.

 

Antony as our #10 is just scary.  That's a clear indication of how bad it is.

[Cronky]

I can't see that 3-4-3 is some magic formula that will in itself give a team an advantage. Managers in the Premiership are experienced and will know about the pluses and minuses of each system. Amorim isn't going to surprise anyone, and if he does survive long enough to get the players he needs to make it work, will it really be worth waiting for?

 

Players need to have faith in what their manager is trying to get them to do, and at the moment it's not there. It's difficult enough for a manager to impose a new system on a team, but when he doesn't have the players to make it function, it just looks like a waste of time.

[TheBrownBottle]

1 hour ago, KingArthur said:

The whole situation with Amorim and 3-4-3 seems a bit ridiculous. Clearly these players are not suitable for that system, but he decides to stick with it anyway. Surely the manager should first look what he has, and after that decide the formation? Now it seems like he is pushing square pieces to rounds holes and hoping it works. 

 

Defending has improved, but my god the attacking is woeful. Hoping for set piece goal.

100%.  Yes, of course in the long run there’s nothing wrong with him switching to his preferred tactics and building the personnel in the squad around that.  But to do what he’s doing just makes him look like a one-trick pony.  It’s Mike Bassett and ‘we’re playing four four fucking two’ all over. 

[Froggy]

7 minutes ago, Heron said:

Surely for a manager it is first and foremost important to find a winning (or not losing) solution with the existing set of players and then to transition slowly to your desired style of play through the signing of players who fit your philosophy.

 

Sounds an awful lot like Ten Hag to me. 

[KaKa]

2 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

Yeah I think Garnacho would be even worse. Garnacho is an out and out winger. He runs but he doesn't know how to press or defend.

 

Antony as our #10 is just scary.  That's a clear indication of how bad it is.

 

The thing about Antony is he has a great shot on him, and Amad overlapping might open up space for him to get that off?

 

I don't know man. It seems very difficult making these players work in Amorim's setup.

 

Too many headaches.

[nufc4eva]

5 minutes ago, Heron said:

He hasn't though. Howe had us in an a lot more defensive set up when he first arrived and he built around our fortitude at the back from signings such as Trippier and Burn (then later adding Botman).

He has tweaked tactics so that we sit deeper or press higher but formation hasn't really changed I don't think apart from few times he switched to 3 at back?

[TheBrownBottle]

8 minutes ago, Heron said:

He hasn't though. Howe had us in an a lot more defensive set up when he first arrived and he built around our fortitude at the back from signings such as Trippier and Burn (then later adding Botman).

Yep - Howe started out playing 5-3-2 (Bruce was playing 4-1-4-1 towards the end) 

[nufc4eva]

Ah ok, all a blur to me, thought he set out as 433 from first game

[Froggy]

1 minute ago, KaKa said:

 

The thing about Antony is he has a great shot on him, and Amad overlapping might open up space for him to get that off?

 

I don't know man. It seems very difficult making these players work in Amorim's setup.

 

Too many headaches.

 

It needs a new LWB at an absolute minimum and a new #10 as soon as possible.

 

Amorim will get the two windows and the rest of the season to implement this idea, but I don't think he'll get as long as Ten Hag if it doesn't work.

[simonsays]

Martinez has played as a six before, right?  Surely Amorim.could.just put him in as an anchor who could drop into defence when needed so that they don't get overrun by an oppositions midfield 3

[KaKa]

4 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

It needs a new LWB at an absolute minimum and a new #10 as soon as possible.

 

Amorim will get the two windows and the rest of the season to implement this idea, but I don't think he'll get as long as Ten Hag if it doesn't work.

 

Yeah, going to need to make some key moves in January in those positions.

[Froggy]

6 minutes ago, KaKa said:

Yeah, going to need to make some key moves in January in those positions.

 

Which we can't do without sales. That'll be fun position to be in when negotiating.

[Nucasol]

41 minutes ago, Checko said:

At the end of the day Amorim has a decent beard and his name sounds like an interesting liqueur you pick up on your holidays. These are good qualities to build around.

Great head of hair unlike the bald pervert Ten Hag. That alone has to buy him an extra five games. 

[Stifler]

12 minutes ago, Froggy said:

It needs a new LWB at an absolute minimum and a new #10 as soon as possible.

 

Amorim will get the two windows and the rest of the season to implement this idea, but I don't think he'll get as long as Ten Hag if it doesn't work.

Ten Hag was clearly the wrong choice, but for a manager to do well you need nigh on a full clear out of your squad. It’s not going to work giving a manager a couple of windows, then sacking them. 2 windows isn’t enough to change pretty much the full team up when you have players on contracts that are better than what they will get elsewhere, look at us.

[KingArthur]

11 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

Yeah, going to need to make some key moves in January in those positions.

Amorim said yesterday that no moves will be made in January (maybe he meant without someone leaving)

[David Edgar]

We should save Dalot from them as our long-term Trippier replacement.

[aussiemag]

I don’t see how they shift players on to other clubs. No club is going to match the wages they are picking up at Man Utd. 

[lovejoy]

I think it’s a bizarre move from the manager to stick so rigidly to his style when it’s clearly going so awry.

 

I also think the decision to not start mainoo last night is worthy of huge criticism. I’d be alarmed by that.

[David Edgar]

 

"I have to sell my idea" is the Amorim equivalent of ten Hag's "stick to the plan"  

 

[Troll]

1 hour ago, Froggy said:

 

Like he said in his interview last night, he's there because the team was losing and the previous manager was sacked. Now people want him to go back to that system that got the previous manager sacked? He needs to stick to his idea and see who's going to be playing for him next season.

 

Eriksen and Casemiro are fourth and fifth choice midfielders for us. They never really had any hope against a strong midfield that was bang in form, and the formation wouldn't really have mattered. Game shifted when Mainoo came on, but the damage was already done.

 

His "idea" needs wing backs and you don't have any.  Is he really so inflexible he can only play one formation and has to shoehorn the wrong players into it, and can't adapt to work with what he has?

[KaKa]

6 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

Which we can't do without sales. That'll be fun position to be in when negotiating.

 

2 minutes ago, KingArthur said:

Amorim said yesterday that no moves will be made in January (maybe he meant without someone leaving)

 

Think they will figure something out.

 

The situation is quite bad, I just can't see them not doing anything.