Manchester United

[Froggy]

1 minute ago, BoSelecta said:

Harder to catch anything standing on platform of digshit 😁

 

Our last trophy was only 12 months ago chief. It'll take a lot more than this season to dampen the spirits. 

[BoSelecta]

If we lose on Sunday you’ll get some nibbles 😜

[Kid Icarus]

2 hours ago, Froggy said:

 

I don't think Amorim does that at all. He talks about how it's his job to improve the team and that it ultimately lies with him and if he can't turn it around he will walk. He's also open and honest about how bad it is, because that's the truth. I know that's not how all managers are, and I'm not saying it's definitely the right way to be either but it's quite refreshing.

 

The thing with Ten Hag is that he was brought in to play the same football he played at Ajax. He tried it, it didn't work, and then he went back to playing the way Ole did. Literally within the first few games as well. He got pelters from opposition fans and the media for not having his own style of play and he ended up being very pragmatic to try and win games. He won us two trophies, but you didn't know how he was going to set up from one game to the next. I don't think those players had a clue what was going on.

 

Amorim has had ups and downs, but at least he has his way of playing. We can build an identity under him. We've improved in a lot of areas, but are still miserable in others. I do genuinely think a good RWB and a top striker makes a huge, huge difference though. I just want this season to end so we can find out.

 

Maybe it's the benefit of being a neutral, or maybe it means there's a lack of insight, but whenever I see Amorim talk about it being his responsibility and the buck stopping with him it comes across as backhanded because it's as aside from the much bigger context (him only having just arrived and the club already being a mess) and the bigger things he says (about the club, team, players not being good enough), all of which insinuate that those problems have nothing to do with him, even if he uses a token disclaimer about it ultimately being his responsibility.

 

A perfectly encapsulated version of doing this is Russell Martin at Southampton when he (paraphrasing) said after a match "I take full responsibility for that performance, I should have known that the players weren't up to it"

 

It's clever in that it buys him time and people will hear it as refreshing and honest, but I think it's pretty basic manager doublespeak that's at the very least counterproductive when part of your job is about what you say in the media - to either motivate the players for when they play, or retain their value for when you sell them.

 

We'll see, but I do find it very odd that a manager can be rated so highly when they have no pragmatism and whether they succeed or fail is so tightly bound to a very specific formation that they also can't do without very specific players. That doesn't sound like a good manager to me. 

 

 

Edited 9 hours ago by Kid Icarus

[Groundhog63]

3 hours ago, Froggy said:

 

If anything, Howe should be used as an example. He came in at the same time of the season Amorim did. You were already out of the league cup, and suffered a humiliating defeat by Cambridge under Howe in the FA Cup. No European football to contend with either unlike Amorim. He was able to fully focus on the league, but still started with 1 win his first 9 I believe? And that win was against a team that ended up relegated. He got wins against teams like Everton, Southampton, Leeds etc. who were all circling the relegation drain, but got slapped by the better sides, including Spurs.

 

Now look at Howe and what he has done with the side. I remember the forum at the time as well when it started poorly. Mouthpieces like Nobody suggesting he wasn't up to it and you should have gone for someone else.

 

Howe has been given half a billion to spend since then. Let us given Amorim even a single summer transfer window before judging him maybe? 

 

Context. Add the standard of each squad involved prior to these years and even the most beligerent football fan would accept thats hogwash

 

Premier League net spend table over the last five years

[Monters]

Fuck me Froggy! Love the defence of your club and manager but fucking hell what a pile of shite!

The comparison's to Eddie Howe are laughable but have been dealt with elsewhere... I think they'll stay patient with Amorin and ultimately as I fan I would as well after changing mid season but surely he has to show more and should have done by now.

If the players can't play his system then you have to change systems short term to get them winning and improve the culture in the club, he gives the players an excuse for losing and players will always grab that as it is much easier than actually working your bollocks off and actually winning! He could still make moves behind the scenes to implement his style, culture, formation for the future and then deliver it from a stronger position... You know actually managing a team a la Eddie Howe and even Lego Heed at Arsenal. 

Another trait of managing \ coaching players is actually getting them fit for purpose... Luke Shaw is at least 2 stone overweight wtf has he been doing this season, injured or not a pro should not be that heavy and the manager should be making sure via physios etc. that a player is no where near the first time until that weight is shifted! He did one run down the wing and got accused of diving but I think he just collapsed under his own body weight!

Also I noticed a comment (apologies if not by you) saying Amorin didn't do too much wrong last night... well apart from tactics \ shape \ late changes he didn't but that is at least 80% of his job! Still he hoyed the competition winner up front for the last ten minutes as always - fuck me tactical genius!    

[mighty__mag]

 

[JigsawGoesToPieces]

1 hour ago, Beren said:

 

What's the difference between 11th and 17th for them, really?

 

 

About £18m in league prize money.

 

Bet Brexit Jim will be crying into his cornflakes at the money lost.

[Froggy]

7 minutes ago, BoSelecta said:

If we lose on Sunday you’ll get some nibbles 😜

 

This is the thing, I don't mind Newcastle.  I would prefer if you weren't owned by Saudi Arabia, but I'd rather you in the CL than Villa.

 

If you don't get into the CL, I'd be disappointed for you. I wouldn't be gloating.

 

At home vs. Everton is an easy win though. Even we hammered them. 

[Elma]

Is it fair to say that a Villa win on Sunday actually benefits Man Utd now, as with it they have a chance of shifting Rashford quickly to a Villa side with likely UCL football (and the money that comes with it). If Villa don't make UCL then surely that's a major suitor for Rashford gone?

[PauloGeordio]

Manure can drop as low as 17th or finish as high as 14th. Hope they are playing for pride and a win at home. Give the fans something. I don’t think they will against Villa but I hope they do.

[mighty__mag]

Switches to defence mechanism, changes his avatar to historic events to shield the here/now and deflect, doubles down on Amorim.

 

 

[jonny1403]

3 hours ago, Froggy said:

 

If anything, Howe should be used as an example. He came in at the same time of the season Amorim did. You were already out of the league cup, and suffered a humiliating defeat by Cambridge under Howe in the FA Cup. No European football to contend with either unlike Amorim. He was able to fully focus on the league, but still started with 1 win his first 9 I believe? And that win was against a team that ended up relegated. He got wins against teams like Everton, Southampton, Leeds etc. who were all circling the relegation drain, but got slapped by the better sides, including Spurs.

 

Now look at Howe and what he has done with the side. I remember the forum at the time as well when it started poorly. Mouthpieces like Nobody suggesting he wasn't up to it and you should have gone for someone else.

 

Howe has been given half a billion to spend since then. Let us given Amorim even a single summer transfer window before judging him maybe? 

 

Except Howe took over a team bottom of the league as a favourite for relegation and took us to 12th, followed by CL the following year.

 

Amorim has taken over a team 12th in the league (with much more talent mind you) and made you much, much worse. And he obviously isn't getting CL next year. Yet seemingly he's allowed to write off almost 3/4 of an entire season because he needs a summer transfer window and pre-season?

 

He's had 7 months now ffs and you are demonstrably a worse team than Ten Hag's United. 

[Froggy]

2 minutes ago, mighty__mag said:

Switches to defence mechanism, changes his avatar to historic events to shield the here/now and deflect, doubles down on Amorim.

 

Don't back down, double down.

 

Also someone changed my avatar first, which I would never have been aware of only someone posted it as I have the SFW filter on.

[mighty__mag]

8 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

Don't back down, double down.

 

Also someone changed my avatar first, which I would never have been aware of only someone posted it as I have the SFW filter on.

 

Sorry Froggy, I baited you there, thought you had me on ignore, so was trying to draw you out.

 

👍🏻 

[Froggy]

6 minutes ago, mighty__mag said:

 

Sorry Froggy, I baited you there, thought you had me on ignore, so was trying to draw you out.

 

👍🏻 

 

I don't have anyone on ignore.  I'm not a fanny. 

[Shearergol]

20 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

I don't have anyone on ignore.  I'm not a fanny. 

 

[mighty__mag]

21 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

I don't have anyone on ignore.  I'm not a fanny. 

 

Nice one pal, there some proper fanny's on here mind.

 

Don't think I ignore, not even Ronaldo 

 

 

Edited 8 hours ago by mighty__mag

[alexf]

I thought it was a shocking performance.

 

That 3-4-3 that he is so fond of, he hasn't been able to coach any semblance of playing the system well. 

 

You had Dorgu constantly standing on top off Shaw and just looking lost. Then Mazraoui always in the same space as Amad. 

None of the players know how to play their positions in this system. 

 

In comparison (since Howe seems to be getting dragged into this by Froggy) 

You see the way out boys played against Chelsea and Arsenal in a similar wing back system, that was clearly a last minute tweak due to injuries, and look at the positive movement and patterns of play we were getting from Tino and Murphy. Night and day and this is a system Amorim is supposed to know and has had all season to get a tune out of them. 

 

I thought it was criminal that he kept persisting with that line up last night (and all season) when a simple switch to 4 at the back and just playing their better players in their main positions would have likely given them a comfortable win last night. 

 

Sure they will "improve" next year as it will be impossible to get worse than this. But they are very lucky their historical success will allow them to buy some decent players like Cunha.

 

But I can't see Amorim being the man to take them back to the top, not unless he suddenly becomes more adaptable.

[KingArthur]

Amad should be wingback in that system. He really isn't very good playing more central.

[Monters]

4 minutes ago, KingArthur said:

Amad should be wingback in that system. He really isn't very good playing more central.

Not strong enough, in my opinion 

[TBG]

You'd think the Glazers will have to step back in. 

 

Most be awful for them seeing how much the club has regressed.

[JT24]

LOL

[Froggy]

1 minute ago, JT24 said:

LOL

 

Not sure that's something to LOL about is it? 

[JT24]

1 minute ago, Froggy said:

 

Not sure that's something to LOL about is it? 

Well I’m certainly laughing at the thought of Ratcliffe and Glazer being booed by the staff of their own football club. 

[Joelinton7]

Amorim is a calamity. He’s massively out of his depth and will only cause more damage the longer he stays. He’s a complete stubborn headed excuse merchant who after a full season still hasn’t computed that most pl teams are better than the likes of Famalicao and Arouca.

 

I don’t even know why their fans are sticking by him. He’s blatantly begging to be sacked judging by his quotes. He is quite a distance worse than ten Hag. Clearly can’t motivate players, even for a final for crying out loud. 
 

If Eddie had interviewed for us and said “I will only play one way and you need to give me a billion quid for the players I want” he’d have been told to do one. Top managers adapt and overcome. They improve players, they get an individuals who aren’t the best outperforming their abilities. They find ways to limit the impact of a players’ weaknesses and maximise their strengths. They don’t just say “you don’t fit my style” and sack whole seasons off because of it.

 

He’s come in and kind of told them “we’re the worst MUFC in history”. It’s ok to do that , to give some harsh truths, a reality check for the club and fans as long as you back it up with results. As long as you’re the solution. The fact he’s now been worse than his predecessor leaves those words demoralising the place and makes him look like the problem. 

 

Doesn’t even matter if he stays or goes though. The culture there is one where players are terrified to perform in front of their own fans. The super magnified scrutiny from Neville et al which seems to be on a constant stream must be so suffocating. They still haven’t moved past the “spending loads of money = success” mindset. 
 

When you sign for Man Utd you’re expected to be the finished product. You cost £85m so you need to perform with no excuses. You walk into Carrington and see the big “Manchester United” sign and think “I’ve made it”.
 

You meet your teammates and they seem nice enough. Then you get on the training pitch and the intensity seems a little low but you don’t say anything.

 

You get into your first match. Teammates aren’t communicating with each other, they’re not tight to their men, you’re constantly chasing the ball, players aren’t tracking their men. But they don’t say anything and so you don’t say anything. No one gives a fuck. 

 

Eventually you just accept this is how it is. You go in, do your contracted work and pick up your astronomical pay check. You do it because it’s the easy way. The whole club is like this. 
 

tldr = Man U shite, Amorim shite