Manchester United

[Charlies]

Remember those kids in school who “supported” them for weird reasons like Beckhams hair. 
 

Wey fuck all them  glory hunting cunts 

[KingArthur]

The whole situation with Amorim and 3-4-3 seems a bit ridiculous. Clearly these players are not suitable for that system, but he decides to stick with it anyway. Surely the manager should first look what he has, and after that decide the formation? Now it seems like he is pushing square pieces to rounds holes and hoping it works. 

 

Defending has improved, but my god the attacking is woeful. Hoping for set piece goal.

[Froggy]

7 minutes ago, KingArthur said:

The whole situation with Amorim and 3-4-3 seems a bit ridiculous. Clearly these players are not suitable for that system, but he decides to stick with it anyway. Surely the manager should first look what he has, and after that decide the formation? Now it seems like he is pushing square pieces to rounds holes and hoping it works. 

 

Defending has improved, but my god the attacking is woeful. Hoping for set piece goal.

 

Like he said in his interview last night, he's there because the team was losing and the previous manager was sacked. Now people want him to go back to that system that got the previous manager sacked? He needs to stick to his idea and see who's going to be playing for him next season.

 

Eriksen and Casemiro are fourth and fifth choice midfielders for us. They never really had any hope against a strong midfield that was bang in form, and the formation wouldn't really have mattered. Game shifted when Mainoo came on, but the damage was already done.

[KaKa]

5 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

Like he said in his interview last night, he's there because the team was losing and the previous manager was sacked. Now people want him to go back to that system that got the previous manager sacked? He needs to stick to his idea and see who's going to be playing for him next season.

 

Eriksen and Casemiro are fourth and fifth choice midfielders for us. They never really had any hope against a strong midfield that was bang in form, and the formation wouldn't really have mattered. Game shifted when Mainoo came on, but the damage was already done.

 

Mainoo started alongside Ugarte against both Bournemouth and Wolves though, and it didn't make a difference.

 

I think we had taken our foot of the gas by the time Mainoo came on. He really wasn't some sort of game changer.

 

 

[WilliamPS]

21 minutes ago, KingArthur said:

The whole situation with Amorim and 3-4-3 seems a bit ridiculous. Clearly these players are not suitable for that system, but he decides to stick with it anyway. Surely the manager should first look what he has, and after that decide the formation? Now it seems like he is pushing square pieces to rounds holes and hoping it works. 

 

Defending has improved, but my god the attacking is woeful. Hoping for set piece goal.

Can he actually coach in a different way? (Ive no idea, never watched his teams) But they might be stuck with a coach who can only work on 343 and a squad that can’t. Which would be funny.

 

FWIW I reckon they’ll lose to Liverpool but then recover somewhat in the league and Europe. They will adjust enough to the formation, some players will step up and others will be binned off. Their big issue will be whether to overhaul the squad to suit this guy, when they love a sacking.

[KingArthur]

19 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

Like he said in his interview last night, he's there because the team was losing and the previous manager was sacked. Now people want him to go back to that system that got the previous manager sacked? He needs to stick to his idea and see who's going to be playing for him next season.

 

Eriksen and Casemiro are fourth and fifth choice midfielders for us. They never really had any hope against a strong midfield that was bang in form, and the formation wouldn't really have mattered. Game shifted when Mainoo came on, but the damage was already done.

Yea, I think he will be backed. He has decided this is the way and seems like he is a man with principles. That is fine.

BUT I would have understand if he had gone with say 4-2-3-1 and assess the players, and after this season decides who to keep and what kind of players he needs. Dropping out of Europe totally and ending up like 12th or 14th would be a total disaster for ManU. Trying to get a new formation in with injuries, lots of fixtures and losing every other game is damn tough job

The problem wasn't only Eriksen and Casemiro, the problem was you were outnumbered in the middle in 2 different lines. Zirkzee and Martinez were bad, but they really didn't know what to do. Game shifted because Eriksen was pressing much better than Zirkzee, and to be honest you really raised the intensity from the walking pace that it was at first.. It wasn't 3-4-3 even it was 5-2-2-1. Very passive. Something I definitely did not expect from Amorim.

And it is true that NUFC midfield is very strong, but it was a bit of training exercise for the first 20 minutes. It is a bit like Angeball somehow.. RA said "It is easy to say we were outnumbered in the middle after the game started", no, it was easy to say before the game. Maybe Mainoo was so injured and he didn't have a choice then.

 

 

Edited December 31, 2024 by KingArthur

[Checko]

Had family over so couldn't see the game yesterday. From Man U fans sounds like Amorim got it wrong to start with & Casemeiro & Eriksson were always going to be overrun. To be fair to him though he was pretty proactive in changing things and bringing Mainoo on did stem the tide by the sounds of it, though obviously we didn't have to force things by then.

 

At the end of the day Amorim has a decent beard and his name sounds like an interesting liqueur you pick up on your holidays. These are good qualities to build around.

 

Also I think 343 can be a really good system, but he'll need a couple of windows to bring some peeps in.

[Heron]

1 minute ago, Checko said:

Had family over so couldn't see the game yesterday. From Man U fans sounds like Amorim got it wrong to start with & Casemeiro & Eriksson were always going to be overrun. To be fair to him though he was pretty proactive in changing things and bringing Mainoo on did stem the tide by the sounds of it, though obviously we didn't have to force things by then.

 

At the end of the day Amorim has a decent beard and his name sounds like an interesting liqueur you pick up on your holidays. These are good qualities to build around.

 

Also I think 343 can be a really good system, but he'll need a couple of windows to bring some peeps in.

[Froggy]

12 minutes ago, KaKa said:

Mainoo started alongside Ugarte against both Bournemouth and Wolves though, and it didn't make a difference.

 

We had control of the midfield against Wolves, so it did. It was 0-0 until we went down to 10 men. Obviously your midfield is a different kettle of fish to the Wolves one, but to say it didn't make a difference is off the mark. 

 

To say we wouldn't have been better with a midfield 3 of Ugarte, Mainoo and Fernandes instead of a midfield 3 of Eriksen, Casemiro and Zirkzee is disingenuous.

 

I'm in absolutely no way saying we would have got something from the game, as you were that good in the opening 30. Result would have been the same IMO, just maybe not as embarassing as it was early on.

[BoSelecta]

7 minutes ago, Checko said:

At the end of the day Amorim has a decent beard and his name sounds like an interesting liqueur you pick up on your holidays. These are good qualities to build around.

[KaKa]

Just now, Froggy said:

 

We had control of the midfield against Wolves, so it did. It was 0-0 until we went down to 10 men. Obviously your midfield is a different kettle of fish to the Wolves one, but to say it didn't make a difference is off the mark. 

 

To say we wouldn't have been better with a midfield 3 of Ugarte, Mainoo and Fernandes instead of a midfield 3 of Eriksen, Casemiro and Zirkzee is disingenuous.

 

I'm in absolutely no way saying we would have got something from the game, as you were that good in the opening 30. Result would have been the same IMO, just maybe not as embarassing as it was early on.

 

Fair enough. I think that's reasonable.

 

One thing I have noticed. Early on Amorim was playing Amad at wing back, and I think you looked more dangerous then. I'm surprised he hasn't gone back to that.

 

Playing both Dalot and Mazaroui at the wing back spots seems to be stifling your play going forward.

 

 

[christ]

I see absolutely no difference between Amorim’s dogmatic insistence on 343 and what Ange is doing at Spurs. Or what Russell Martin did at Southampton.

 

When was the meeting where everyone decided that being tactically inflexible was the cool new thing? There’s nowt wrong with having a system you aspire to playing but at some point you’ve got to look at the hand you’ve been dealt and adapt a little.

 

Utter woke nonsense.

[Froggy]

Just now, KaKa said:

Fair enough. I think that's reasonable.

 

One thing I have noticed. Early on Amorim was playing Amad at wing back, and I think you looked more dangerous then. I'm surprised he hasn't gone back to that.

 

Playing both Dalot and Mazaroui at the wing back spots seems to be stifling your play going forward.

 

I don't think Dalot nor Mazraoui have the quality to play wing back in that system. Dalot is potentially capable on the right but is badly exposed on the left. There's just nobody else.

 

There's some stupid stat that we haven't not scored a goal when those two are wing backs, but when it's been Amad or Antony we've scored 9.

 

At the same time, he can't play Amad there as we don't have good enough #10's if Amad was to drop deeper, especially with Fernandes out.

 

Another fun stat: the last 4 games we've not had Fernandes - 0 goals.

 

[Heron]

Surely for a manager it is first and foremost important to find a winning (or not losing) solution with the existing set of players and then to transition slowly to your desired style of play through the signing of players who fit your philosophy.

 

For a 'How To...' guide see the 'Howe To...' guide.

[nufc4eva]

1 minute ago, Froggy said:

 

I don't think Dalot nor Mazraoui have the quality to play wing back in that system. Dalot is potentially capable on the right but is badly exposed on the left. There's just nobody else.

 

There's some stupid stat that we haven't not scored a goal when those two are wing backs, but when it's been Amad or Antony we've scored 9.

 

At the same time, he can't play Amad there as we don't have good enough #10's if Amad was to drop deeper, especially with Fernandes out.

 

Another fun stat: the last 4 games we've not had Fernandes - 0 goals.

 

I actually think we have the type of players to play that system with Hall and Livramento as wing backs and Tonali, Bruno in centre more than they do.

 

I get sticking by his principles and how he sees the game but a good coach would find a system to suit the players to start with and evolve it. Mind Howe has stuck with 433 pretty much throughout his time here but does change tactics in pressing, overloads etc.

[KaKa]

1 minute ago, Froggy said:

 

I don't think Dalot nor Mazraoui have the quality to play wing back in that system. Dalot is potentially capable on the right but is badly exposed on the left. There's just nobody else.

 

There's some stupid stat that we haven't not scored a goal when those two are wing backs, but when it's been Amad or Antony we've scored 9.

 

At the same time, he can't play Amad there as we don't have good enough #10's if Amad was to drop deeper, especially with Fernandes out.

 

Another fun stat: the last 4 games we've not had Fernandes - 0 goals.

 

 

Has he tried Anthony in that 10 spot instead? With Amad at wing back? Anthony doesn't seem able to take people on which he can probably get away with more in the 10 with Amad overlapping?

 

I feel like he needs to try some different combinations in those positions as that appears to be the main issue.

 

Even Garnacho in the wing back spots I don't think he has tried yet. Could he really be much worse than Dalot has been there?

[Heron]

2 minutes ago, nufc4eva said:

I actually think we have the type of players to play that system with Hall and Livramento as wing backs and Tonali, Bruno in centre more than they do.

 

I get sticking by his principles and how he sees the game but a good coach would find a system to suit the players to start with and evolve it. Mind Howe has stuck with 433 pretty much throughout his time here but does change tactics in pressing, overloads etc.

He hasn't though. Howe had us in an a lot more defensive set up when he first arrived and he built around our fortitude at the back from signings such as Trippier and Burn (then later adding Botman).

[Froggy]

1 minute ago, KaKa said:

 

Has he tried Anthony in that 10 spot instead? With Amad at wing back? Anthony doesn't seem able to take people on which he can probably get away with more in the 10 with Amad overlapping?

 

I feel like he needs to try some different combinations in those positions as that appears to be the main issue.

 

Even Garnacho in the wing back spots I don't think he has tried yet. Could he really be much worse than Dalot has been there?

 

Yeah I think Garnacho would be even worse. Garnacho is an out and out winger. He runs but he doesn't know how to press or defend.

 

Antony as our #10 is just scary.  That's a clear indication of how bad it is.

[Cronky]

I can't see that 3-4-3 is some magic formula that will in itself give a team an advantage. Managers in the Premiership are experienced and will know about the pluses and minuses of each system. Amorim isn't going to surprise anyone, and if he does survive long enough to get the players he needs to make it work, will it really be worth waiting for?

 

Players need to have faith in what their manager is trying to get them to do, and at the moment it's not there. It's difficult enough for a manager to impose a new system on a team, but when he doesn't have the players to make it function, it just looks like a waste of time.

[TheBrownBottle]

1 hour ago, KingArthur said:

The whole situation with Amorim and 3-4-3 seems a bit ridiculous. Clearly these players are not suitable for that system, but he decides to stick with it anyway. Surely the manager should first look what he has, and after that decide the formation? Now it seems like he is pushing square pieces to rounds holes and hoping it works. 

 

Defending has improved, but my god the attacking is woeful. Hoping for set piece goal.

100%.  Yes, of course in the long run there’s nothing wrong with him switching to his preferred tactics and building the personnel in the squad around that.  But to do what he’s doing just makes him look like a one-trick pony.  It’s Mike Bassett and ‘we’re playing four four fucking two’ all over. 

[Froggy]

7 minutes ago, Heron said:

Surely for a manager it is first and foremost important to find a winning (or not losing) solution with the existing set of players and then to transition slowly to your desired style of play through the signing of players who fit your philosophy.

 

Sounds an awful lot like Ten Hag to me. 

[KaKa]

2 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

Yeah I think Garnacho would be even worse. Garnacho is an out and out winger. He runs but he doesn't know how to press or defend.

 

Antony as our #10 is just scary.  That's a clear indication of how bad it is.

 

The thing about Antony is he has a great shot on him, and Amad overlapping might open up space for him to get that off?

 

I don't know man. It seems very difficult making these players work in Amorim's setup.

 

Too many headaches.

[nufc4eva]

5 minutes ago, Heron said:

He hasn't though. Howe had us in an a lot more defensive set up when he first arrived and he built around our fortitude at the back from signings such as Trippier and Burn (then later adding Botman).

He has tweaked tactics so that we sit deeper or press higher but formation hasn't really changed I don't think apart from few times he switched to 3 at back?

[TheBrownBottle]

8 minutes ago, Heron said:

He hasn't though. Howe had us in an a lot more defensive set up when he first arrived and he built around our fortitude at the back from signings such as Trippier and Burn (then later adding Botman).

Yep - Howe started out playing 5-3-2 (Bruce was playing 4-1-4-1 towards the end) 

[nufc4eva]

Ah ok, all a blur to me, thought he set out as 433 from first game