Squad & tactics (2024/25)

[Kanj]

There's an argument that we may need to play our absolute fastest defenders until Botman is back for his game reading/sweeping/high interceptions. Of that, I think thats Kelly and Tino. 

 

LB: Hall/Tino

CB: Kelly

CB: Schar 

RB: Tino/Trippier

 

>> Hall pushes up and plays a mirror of the Trippier role if he starts at LB, or Trippier plays his usual role if he starts at RB

>> Kelly has genuine recovery pace, ball playing and is a mainstay until Botman is back

>> Schar has high aggressive interceptions, ball playing and is a mainstay until we find another RCB to replace him

>> Tino mostly plays as a defensive RB or LB, and only pushes forward when Hall or Trippier are not, But sits back but otherwise he's a shadow wide RCB or wide LCB and uses his recovery pace and 1 v 1 defending ability.  Basically Ben White or Ake or something. None of this pushing up as an inverted fullback nonsense. If anyone does that, should be Hall or Tripps. 

 

 

Edited September 25 by Kanji

[Ronson333]

Stop the flat midfield three, they don’t cover the hole behind them or support Isak enough. Needs a tweak..

[Gallowgate Toon]

On 19/10/2024 at 17:46, Ronson333 said:

Stop the flat midfield three, they don’t cover the hole behind them or support Isak enough. Needs a tweak..

To be fair, we played 4-4-2 for decent stretches on the weekend and I actually thought it worked really well for a period. Bruno and Tonali showed a really nice understanding when we were doing this, and it enabled Gordon to take some of the pressing load from Isak.

 

 

Edited October 21 by Gallowgate Toon

[r0cafella]

I think our squad is quite unbalanced which isn't helping things either. 

 

We obviously don't have any dedicated DM which limits our tactical flexibility in addition to that we also don't have any players who are capable of playing as 10's. We've got a squad full of 8's so us playing a high energy make sense from that Pov but moving away from that will be difficult given the personnel. 

 

I'm also not keen on what we are doing out wide, I think Hall is good but you probably want him to invert given his passing ability but then we lack a player holding width on the left as neither Gordon or Barnes are that kind of player. On the right side we have the opposite problem. Tino wants to get up and down the line but as Miggy is limited and out of favour the option becomes either Gordon who doesn't seem well suited to cutting inside from the right or Murphy who wants go hold width. 

 

Tldr we lack options which limits our tactical flexibility. Our recruitment has been lacking and left us without a plan b. 

[r0cafella]

@Smalwould like to hear your thoughts on this. 

[NWMag]

For me, especially with Hall and Livramento at FBs, I think we need to either play 3 at the back, or have an actual DM who stays back and allows the FBs to get forward. 
 

with our current squad it would have to be 3 at the back, I wouldn’t mind seeing:

 

Pope

 

Schar

Botman

Kelly

 

Livramento

Tonali

Bruno

Hall

 

RW (this is the big issue - Murphy and Almiron are not good enough, however it may be more of an inverted role so maybe even Willock could do a job for now)

Isak

Gordon

 

could even put Gordon right and Barnes left. It would mean plenty of cover at the back at all times, plenty of width, and talent in the middle. 
 

however I don’t think we will deviate from the 433 - but we need to tweak it if it remains.

[Smal]

53 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

@Smalwould like to hear your thoughts on this. 

 

Thanks  

 

I think it's easy to bemoan our lack of individual quality at right wing but for me the biggest issue is systemic rather than personnel related. You used to see clear patterns of play, rotations and combinations between Trippier, Longstaff and Almiron which were really effective, but the latter two of those 3 are hardly high quality individuals. Our in possession game hasn't really evolved and if anything it's gone backwards. Howe has tried a couple of things earlier this season like Livramento inverted which haven't really worked, but at least he's tried something.

 

Imo systemically a lot of it has gone to shit since we started trying to accommodate for Bruno wanting to play higher up the field last season. He presses way higher than he did in our 4th season, and he doesn't show to receive the ball in the first phase of build up as much, or is too easily marked out of it. I think we'd do well to prioritise an athletic DM who is comfortable receiving the ball from the CBs and GK with his back to play, and can defend transitions better than Bruno can. That would free Bruno to play higher which might alleviate some of the creativity issues we have there, and Bruno would still be able to help with build up from that position better than a Tonali/Joelinton/Longstaff can. Unfortunately the profile of DM I'm talking about costs billions for an established player... we'd need some good scouting. I actually think Hall could do it and has the right attributes - and clearly used to play midfield in his youth career - but he's been good at left back and solved an issue for us there. 

 

There's also the issue that if we were to bring a DM in it would mean dropping one of Joelinton or Tonali to the bench. We're too well stacked in the box-to-box 8 role.

 

Agreed that our recruitment has been an issue. Getting ourselves into a situation where we had to sell a really good prospect in our main problem position is crazy when we've got two CL quality left wingers in the squad. Barnes is a really good player but can't help but think we signed him because we could rather than having an actual plan there.

 

If Howe makes it to January (which I hope he does) then it'll be interesting to see what happens. We should have some money to spend. I'd hate to think we spunk all of our budget on a CB tbh. There are two other positions which are more of a priority imo - a DM for the system and a RW who actually fits the profile of what we want there.  

[r0cafella]

1 hour ago, Smal said:

 

Thanks  

 

I think it's easy to bemoan our lack of individual quality at right wing but for me the biggest issue is systemic rather than personnel related. You used to see clear patterns of play, rotations and combinations between Trippier, Longstaff and Almiron which were really effective, but the latter two of those 3 are hardly high quality individuals. Our in possession game hasn't really evolved and if anything it's gone backwards. Howe has tried a couple of things earlier this season like Livramento inverted which haven't really worked, but at least he's tried something.

 

Imo systemically a lot of it has gone to shit since we started trying to accommodate for Bruno wanting to play higher up the field last season. He presses way higher than he did in our 4th season, and he doesn't show to receive the ball in the first phase of build up as much, or is too easily marked out of it. I think we'd do well to prioritise an athletic DM who is comfortable receiving the ball from the CBs and GK with his back to play, and can defend transitions better than Bruno can. That would free Bruno to play higher which might alleviate some of the creativity issues we have there, and Bruno would still be able to help with build up from that position better than a Tonali/Joelinton/Longstaff can. Unfortunately the profile of DM I'm talking about costs billions for an established player... we'd need some good scouting. I actually think Hall could do it and has the right attributes - and clearly used to play midfield in his youth career - but he's been good at left back and solved an issue for us there. 

 

There's also the issue that if we were to bring a DM in it would mean dropping one of Joelinton or Tonali to the bench. We're too well stacked in the box-to-box 8 role.

 

Agreed that our recruitment has been an issue. Getting ourselves into a situation where we had to sell a really good prospect in our main problem position is crazy when we've got two CL quality left wingers in the squad. Barnes is a really good player but can't help but think we signed him because we could rather than having an actual plan there.

 

If Howe makes it to January (which I hope he does) then it'll be interesting to see what happens. We should have some money to spend. I'd hate to think we spunk all of our budget on a CB tbh. There are two other positions which are more of a priority imo - a DM for the system and a RW who actually fits the profile of what we want there.  

Cracking post, this is definitely on approach we could take to address our issue. 

 

I'm not so convinced with Hall being the DM profile you mentioned, that being said as you correctly pointed out these Rodri esque type players are goal dust and everyone seemingly want them. 

 

Your point about our glut of B2b midfielders also stood out and your on the money again. From a squad planning perspective having 3 of your highest paid players and all seem to want to do the same thing makes it really difficult to balance. Someone has to be the square peg. 

[Kanj]

Putting an armchair DOF hat on, you'd ideally want to move on Willock and Longstaff and replace with a creative, technical AM and a physical DM. That way you've got more flexibility in systems. You could get really creative with systems then. 

[Smal]

Not that I'd want to sell him because he's cool af, but you can kind of see Titchy Dan's argument for selling Joelinton. You'd probably get a good fee for him compared to a Longstaff or an injury-prone Willock. 

[andycap]

Wouldn't mind us trying that formation and sticking with it. 

[Mikky]

38 minutes ago, andycap said:

Wouldn't mind us trying that formation and sticking with it. 

I’d slightly tweak it - play Big Joe on left and bring Barnes inwards - like a 4-4-1-1 or a 4-2-3-1 - giving us some flexibility 

[Sibierski]

I feel the system for me will depend on what Howe sees being the future role of Tino, as he’s clearly a long term RB. Last season, when Hall wasn’t close to breaking into the side, I suggested something like this in the build up:

 

Schar , Botman, Burn

Bruno , Tonali

Tino, New RW, Willock, Gordon

Isak

 

Basically Tino would push right up as a RW, and the RW would be someone who can play in the pockets, utilising Tino as the attacking outlet. But now, giving Hall is finally in the side and looking good, I’d like to see us train Tino to be a good defensive full back and it be:

 

Tino, Schar, Botman

Tonali, Hall

Barnes, Bruno, Willock, Gordon

Isak

 

Hall to revert in to help with build up, allowing Bruno to be further forward. 

 

Just doesn’t feel it’s possible to have both Tino / Hall as full backs going wide, as it’s something you see very little of at the top level currently.

 

 

Edited October 22 by Sibierski

[Lotus]

You’d lose a lot of his positive play and his running by playing Tonali as the 6 but I think, of all our midfielders he’s probably the best suited to it.

Him and Bruno can do it, they can both play further forward too but I think has more creativity and can be a bit more unpredictable. Also, Tonali has the pace to cover the 2 CBs. 
That is, until we find someone else to do it. 

[Colos Short and Curlies]

We’d need a dm or left back (to try hall back in midfield), and Botman back bit I’d like to see a variation on 3-5-2

 

Botman and Schar as a back 2

Hall/new dm playing as a 3rd cb or dm depending on the phase of play

 

Bruno and Tonali as a midfield 2

 

Tino and Hall (or new) wingbacks 

 

Gordon as a ten

 

Wilson and Isak up top 

 

With most teams playing 1 up top the 3rd  centre half can be a spare part hence the hybrid cb/dm role

[BrickTop]

When Botman is back I think Eddie will stick with 433 and return Burn to LB. He's limited there but allows Botman to step up and cut out passing lanes left open when our midfield presses high centrally. Getting Botman back to his pre-injury form is so important if we're to continue with Eddie's current approach. 

[Weznufc]

11 minutes ago, BrickTop said:

When Botman is back I think Eddie will stick with 433 and return Burn to LB. He's limited there but allows Botman to step up and cut out passing lanes left open when our midfield presses high centrally. Getting Botman back to his pre-injury form is so important if we're to continue with Eddie's current approach. 

I hope not burn kills us at lb 

[Holmesy]

14 minutes ago, Weznufc said:

I hope not burn kills us at lb 

I completely agree. If he goes back to Burn at LB I will start calling for him to be sacked - it gave us a blatant vulnerability that our opponents were only too happy to exploit. Continuing with it when it clearly wasn't working had people starting to question Eddie's managerial credentials for the first time. 

 

 

Edited October 23 by Holmesy

[janpawel]

No way we'd buy Hall and Kelly to revert to playing Burn at LB 😂

[BrickTop]

8 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

I completely agree. If he goes back to Burn at LB I will start calling for him to be sacked - it gave us a blatant vulnerability that our opponents were only too happy to exploit. Continuing with it when it clearly wasn't working had people starting to question Eddie's managerial credentials for the first time. 

 

 

 

Oh I agree. Whilst it may solve one issue defensively it just creates a different one. The hole our midfield leaves in front of the defense currently is an alarming issue that needs resolving though. 

[Nine]

No, our long term LB future is with Hall. He won’t revert tactics now and ditch Hall, adapting styles to a more possession based game is the next step of the evolution Howe has talked about. Trippier will eventually be phased out and Hall will become the focal point of the build up of our wide attacking play.

 

Although, I’m not convinced we currently have the right squad to execute the new style effectively. But he won’t drop Hall for Burn there now. 

[janpawel]

I've been really impressed with Hall this season, after being a bit apprehensive on him for a while. It's shows through how much of our play goes through him how much confidence the players have in him, I'm sure his pass/touches stats are always top and near the top 

 

He reminds me of Luke Shaw for England a few tournaments ago, everything we did went started through him

 

[Myleftboot]

9 hours ago, Weznufc said:

I hope not burn kills us at lb 

I don’t think even burn wants to go back to LB. 😆

[Weznufc]

24 minutes ago, Myleftboot said:

I don’t think even burn wants to go back to LB. 😆

🤣

[Myleftboot]

When everyone’s fit he has a selection headache.