Wullie Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 they can bank credit for pledging to improve communication http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/derek-llambias-sorry-lack-communication-1449439 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I just finished reading this. I got to say good job to both the Chronicle asking some pertinent questions and Charnley for being pretty open with his answers. It's only a shame it took so long. In terms of the content, I kind of agree with the general sentiments of building towards the long term and not sacrificing principles for short term popularity. I agree also with the management structure he talked about of the triangle between the MD, chief scout and head coach. The need to find a head coach that fits within their structure is also made clear and again something I would agree very much with. What I would like to know though are what are the corporate goals or mission statement ? Is it (as I believe it should for any football team) to be the best team in the land and compete for the highest honours ? Or is it to be a financially sound business. Because if it's the former then after 7 years there is little sign of this long term strategy working, 7 years is enough time to have expected to see some progress but we are in exactly the same place as where we were when ashley took over, a nothing club competing for nothing. If it's the latter, then job done in the short term but good luck retaining that profitability when the supporters begin to slowly drift away as they are right now. While I applaud them for keeping to their principles of long term planning and fire prevention rather than fighting, all good businesses know when they need to compromise those principles by implementing short term solutions, such as right now we need a quality CB in the Jan window, by hook or crook they have to get one in. We also need a head coach in place for the remainder of the season that is capable of getting the points to ensure we stay in the PL, because the guy you have in place right now is not. You might need to accelerate the process by paying compensation for the head coach you want or find a better temporary solution. I hope they continue to communicate with the fans in this manner, sometimes we don't like what they have to say but the important thing is they are talking again. It would be nice to recognise that and not instantly jump down their throats because we don't like the content of the message. Having said that I don't blame any supporters for having a go at them because that kind of respect needs to be earned and they've done nothing over the last few years to earn any respect from the fans. All we have learned is that those who fear the worst are probably right, we don't have any ambition in the slightest to be a proper football club and our only outlook is to survive. We're not a football club who strives to improve on and off the field, we're a business whose only targets are financial. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belfast Mags Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/newcastle-united-lift-fog-confusion-8484843 What a pile of nothing Talk for the sake of talking Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 they can bank credit for pledging to improve communication http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/derek-llambias-sorry-lack-communication-1449439 Some world class horseshit in there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Aye. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 :: HOW he and Ashley were gutted to see Kevin Keegan quit; :: HOW the current board have regretted the huge mistakes they’ve made; :: WHY fans will now be given a voice at St James’s; :: HOW the director of football model — with Dennis Wise STILL on board — will put the club in great shape for years to come; :: WHY Ashley will splash the cash in the summer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
duo Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Needless to say Premier League rules allow you to change your 25 in January. Would be canny f***ing pointless having a transfer window then if they didn't. Aye that little segment was a bit of an insult. Never in a million years is that a justification for no signings. Charnley has helped me make my mind up about whether to cancel my ST. Had enough of this dross....DD will be stopped. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 “In five years’ time I would hope we would be challenging for everything. “We hope to be like an Aston Villa. Relegated a few months later btw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
afar Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I just finished reading this. I got to say good job to both the Chronicle asking some pertinent questions and Charnley for being pretty open with his answers. It's only a shame it took so long. In terms of the content, I kind of agree with the general sentiments of building towards the long term and not sacrificing principles for short term popularity. I agree also with the management structure he talked about of the triangle between the MD, chief scout and head coach. The need to find a head coach that fits within their structure is also made clear and again something I would agree very much with. What I would like to know though are what are the corporate goals or mission statement ? Is it (as I believe it should for any football team) to be the best team in the land and compete for the highest honours ? Or is it to be a financially sound business. Because if it's the former then after 7 years there is little sign of this long term strategy working, 7 years is enough time to have expected to see some progress but we are in exactly the same place as where we were when ashley took over, a nothing club competing for nothing. If it's the latter, then job done in the short term but good luck retaining that profitability when the supporters begin to slowly drift away as they are right now. While I applaud them for keeping to their principles of long term planning and fire prevention rather than fighting, all good businesses know when they need to compromise those principles by implementing short term solutions, such as right now we need a quality CB in the Jan window, by hook or crook they have to get one in. We also need a head coach in place for the remainder of the season that is capable of getting the points to ensure we stay in the PL, because the guy you have in place right now is not. You might need to accelerate the process by paying compensation for the head coach you want or find a better temporary solution. I hope they continue to communicate with the fans in this manner, sometimes we don't like what they have to say but the important thing is they are talking again. It would be nice to recognise that and not instantly jump down their throats because we don't like the content of the message. Having said that I don't blame any supporters for having a go at them because that kind of respect needs to be earned and they've done nothing over the last few years to earn any respect from the fans. All we have learned is that those who fear the worst are probably right, we don't have any ambition in the slightest to be a proper football club and our only outlook is to survive. We're not a football club who strives to improve on and off the field, we're a business whose only targets are financial. I don't disagree with you that that is the impression that must be drawn. But I would really like to see their mission statement to see if they are just bad at planning for the goals or they are actually reaching them as you say. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
afar Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/newcastle-united-lift-fog-confusion-8484843 What a pile of nothing Talk for the sake of talking I don't have a problem with this piece actually. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belfast Mags Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/newcastle-united-lift-fog-confusion-8484843 What a pile of nothing Talk for the sake of talking I don't have a problem with this piece actually. It's just rinse and repeat, ad infinitum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 “In five years’ time I would hope we would be challenging for everything. “We hope to be like an Aston Villa. Relegated a few months later btw. Tbf they've almost achieved that target. Both zombie clubs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistle17 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 It's perfectly timed. They know we're going to be in the s***, and deep, quite soon- no manager, no signings, probably departures- and combing those things, despite how stupid the majority of our new-breed fanbase are, people won't be keen on renewing. But, because the majority of our new-breed fanbase are worryingly easy to convince this will be music to their ears and think, 'well, why aye the club are changing their ways man...Pardews gone, new era and top 10 next year like '. And so, the cycle of footballing death continues. Incredible how anyone can believe a single word of that utter crap. The club have a set way of running, we have not ever been ambitions under Ashley, are not, and will never be. Any talk of a coach bringing in a 'philosophy' of play won't change that. I think people get over excited when they hear a coach with a playing 'philosophy', and mentally link this to a Barcelona-Guardiola style of play- Mike Ashley has a 'philosophy' for running a football club. Tim Sherwood has a philosophy- a flat, boring 4-4-2, and it sucks. Tony Pulis has a philosophy, and although it's very dull it obviously works. But the fact is you're splitting hairs trying to take positives out of that. As long as Ashley's here it will always be the same old lies, deceit, and a crushing lack of ambition/investment in the club. I just hope and pray that people don't renew and actually start to make a stand against this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicago_shearer Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I think Charnley comes off ok in that interview, but there is no reason to believe any of it. On the brighter side, it sounds like the obstacle is signing a target whose preference is a move during the summer. That's at least reassuring that the higher quality targets being mentioned in the press (Garde, Tuchel) are accurate and we might not end up with Curbishley on a 7 year deal. But Carver is going to fail. That is not in doubt. So when, not if, the club get sucked down into a relegation battle this season, then what? And the lack of contingency planning about Pardew is baffling. When your manager is practically in tears and can't leave the dugout during his last home fixture of the season, maybe some discrete succession planning might be an idea if you are the MD of a football club. It was clear his position wasn't secure. "We didn't see it coming" isn't an excuse. Clown. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danh1 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 If we wait until the Summer to bring this "head coach" in and it's John Carver then it'll be the worst thing these despicable cunits have done yet! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 the worst thing I could do is over-promise and under-deliver The people who run NUFC these days could certainly never be accused of over-promising. .....but under-delivering is their default setting.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Seriously, how can any of us take what Charnley has to say as the truth?! The whole f***ing lot of this statement f***ing stinks man. Seriously...what. the. f***?! We are on 27 points, 9 less than at this stage last season. If we have the same form as last season (baring other teams results in mind) we would still stay up by 7 points. (Very quick, rough estimate.) That is literally how the club look at this season, now. What they seem to fail to realise, is that momentum can be key, and presently we have the most momentum in the Premier League. Only we're one of the few teams who are stuck in reverse. f*** me if these c***s built a car the gear box would be like this: R6 R4 R2 Neutral R5 R3 R1 We're on a s*** run of form, we have been beaten by our rivals (again), knocked out both cups and our best players are being touted about with moves to other clubs. The one bit of the statement which everyone knows is true is that they will gladly sell our key players in this month. So in a f***ing tiny squad, with no manager, the only thing we're looking to do is weaken for financial gain...because simply we don't get value for money in this transfer window, they can rip other peoples eyes out, and we're already safe in their mind. That, they pretty much say in that statement. To even mention replacements and trusting they will get them is just a f***ing insult. They don't need a full-time permanent appointment yet for the same reason. So if they can skimp by on John Carver they will, if it makes the end appointment any cheaper. Communication with the fans will continue through the fan forums seemingly, and this is a f***ing joke in itself, because from odd's and sods I have read and heard, any time they are properly challenged they either spout s**** or remove people from the forum meetings. Signing communication will be silent as always. Profit figures will be released, prepared with glorified statistics and statements on the clubs financial growth and how superb we are being ran. Only to see the match-day revenue stay the same way because no-one is willing to give it up and show these c***s. Problem being, match-day revenue probably isn't all-that important anyways to clubs. Unless it means less TV revenue as a consequence. They have no ambition and that's what this statement is. A statement of no ambition. The right appointment and backing now and within 4 games you could potentially be in the European spots. Without it you could be bottom. We had the mentality of being too good to go down the last time we went down, so it means f*** all to me that debate. We don't have the bollocks someone like Burnley has, and that showed when they should have beat us up here. Finally, if these c***s want to be challenged and they want everyone to do that from the bottom up, well fine. The fans are obviously the bottom of this chain in their minds, so we should take this as our call to arms and get at the dipshit, fucktard, c***-traps. Until these deceivers practise what they preach, I agree with everything written here - the facts speak for themselves and I prefer to stick to the mantra of ' By their actions shall ye know them..' These people have conned the support base ever since KK was appointed and then walked(rightly) ; they mutter platitudes about building for the future but then reveal their true colours by selling decent players and not replacing them until it suits them which sets the club back constantly. They have presided over a decline so great that even a little club(yes, they ARE a little club compared to us)like Southampton can out-spend us, out-achieve us and even make us look amateurs in the Academy field by regularly bringing through good youngsters after selling regular first-teamers to clubs like Liverpool...they are able to attract a REAL top manager in Koeman whereas we are scrapping around after people who are unemployed...we even get managers from Championship clubs saying thanks - but no thanks.... When these people start putting their money where Southampton's is, maybe I'll take what stool-pigeons like Charnley seriously instead of treating their spoutings with contempt....people should remember that old saying 'You can fool some of the people ALL of the time' and they are certainly doing that - don't forget, they have STs to sell and jam tomorrow platitiudes like this are aimed at just that. Too many fans just simply WANT to believe so it so they can justify buying a ticket when their friends have given it up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
afar Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I think Charnley comes off ok in that interview, but there is no reason to believe any of it. On the brighter side, it sounds like the obstacle is signing a target whose preference is a move during the summer. That's at least reassuring that the higher quality targets being mentioned in the press (Garde, Tuchel) are accurate and we might not end up with Curbishley on a 7 year deal. But Carver is going to fail. That is not in doubt. So when, not if, the club get sucked down into a relegation battle this season, then what? And the lack of contingency planning about Pardew is baffling. When your manager is practically in tears and can't leave the dugout during his last home fixture of the season, maybe some discrete succession planning might be an idea if you are the MD of a football club. It was clear his position wasn't secure. "We didn't see it coming" isn't an excuse. Clown. I don't agree that you can't believe a word of that. I don't see anything in there that is a stretch the imagination. The long term focus, the structure, the opting out of buying in January are all evident in their actions. I'm not sure he says anything that I don't think that's an outright lie there, I'll reread it again later, but I can't think of anything at first glance. I do agree with you on succession planning, it's one of the core principles of management in any decent corporation, especially as you get higher up the food chain. They keep insisting on describing the club as a business so why they haven't got this in place for one of their most important positions I don't know, especially as you say there were clear signs that it could happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 if we had a proper local press they'd be asking why the club are treating ST holders with such disregard in effectively writing off this season (again) our fans need to read that shit in the paper before they'll actually realise it's happening Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
afar Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 if we had a proper local press they'd be asking why the club are treating ST holders with such disregard in effectively writing off this season (again) our fans need to read that s*** in the paper before they'll actually realise it's happening I don't have a problem with them writing the season off again, IF and it's a big IF they have the right appointment lined up to take over in the summer. An appointment that will push the club forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 if we had a proper local press they'd be asking why the club are treating ST holders with such disregard in effectively writing off this season (again) our fans need to read that s*** in the paper before they'll actually realise it's happening I don't have a problem with them writing the season off again, IF and it's a big IF they have the right appointment lined up to take over in the summer. An appointment that will push the club forward. no, you can accept it if the deal is put in place and announced now but it fucking won't be and we all know it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raconteur Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I don't agree that you can't believe a word of that. I don't see anything in there that is a stretch the imagination. The long term focus, the structure, the opting out of buying in January are all evident in their actions. I'm not sure he says anything that I don't think that's an outright lie there, I'll reread it again later, but I can't think of anything at first glance. I suggest you direct your attention to this section: ARE YOU GOING TO END UP WITH A YES MAN? I’m confident at the end of this process the individual will be best suited for what we’re looking for and can work within the structure we have. I don’t think anything works and you’re never going to move forward if you have ‘yes’ people in key positions. I know people label me as someone who says yes all the time but believe me, if I said yes to everything suggested I wouldn’t last very long. It doesn’t work that way. They have to challenge me, I have to challenge Mike over things – that is how management works. That’s what I expect from all of my heads of department. But do I want someone in who will continually try to change our strategy or put obstacles in our way? Clearly not. They will have to aligned with what we are doing. Outright lies. Enormous stretching of the imagination. Charnley says he doesn't want a yes man, but that the right person will be one who says "yes" to the Ashley doctrine, who says "yes" to his proscribed media role and who says "yes" to Carr's signings. You could argue that it's all true in manager-speak, but history says that the upper echelons will say whatever it takes to appease the fans and that they have admitted openly that public statements are no more than PR exercises. Being a Newastle United fan these days requires critical literacy and a sound understanding of the language of persuasion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raconteur Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 The best part of this interview is the open disdain for "traditional, English" management. For two reasons: Firstly, we won't get an English duffer like Pulis or Bruce or the like. We are almost certain to get a European manager who won't have an issue with the "head coach" structure. More importantly, they've painted a very large target on themselves with regards to the very traditional, very English media - all those "good old boys" who now have a gift-wrapped criticism of Ashley's doctrine whenever anything less-than-fantastic happens. Something like "these foreign models don't work in England" will be the first thing many pundits - ex-players and ex-managers and ex-owners and friends and agents and anyone who talks to journalists - will say. And while we will inwardly groan about how shallow the analysis might be, it will be a source of pressure on, and irritation to, Mike Ashley and whoever is spouting his lies to the press at the time... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
afar Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I don't agree that you can't believe a word of that. I don't see anything in there that is a stretch the imagination. The long term focus, the structure, the opting out of buying in January are all evident in their actions. I'm not sure he says anything that I don't think that's an outright lie there, I'll reread it again later, but I can't think of anything at first glance. I suggest you direct your attention to this section: ARE YOU GOING TO END UP WITH A YES MAN? I’m confident at the end of this process the individual will be best suited for what we’re looking for and can work within the structure we have. I don’t think anything works and you’re never going to move forward if you have ‘yes’ people in key positions. I know people label me as someone who says yes all the time but believe me, if I said yes to everything suggested I wouldn’t last very long. It doesn’t work that way. They have to challenge me, I have to challenge Mike over things – that is how management works. That’s what I expect from all of my heads of department. But do I want someone in who will continually try to change our strategy or put obstacles in our way? Clearly not. They will have to aligned with what we are doing. Outright lies. Enormous stretching of the imagination. Charnley says he doesn't want a yes man, but that the right person will be one who says "yes" to the Ashley doctrine, who says "yes" to his proscribed media role and who says "yes" to Carr's signings. You could argue that it's all true in manager-speak, but history says that the upper echelons will say whatever it takes to appease the fans and that they have admitted openly that public statements are no more than PR exercises. Being a Newastle United fan these days requires critical literacy and a sound understanding of the language of persuasion. I'm not sure. he says he wants someone to buy into their philosophy and show a united front not question the club policy in public.there is nothing wrong with that. We don't know how Pardew was behind the scenes we presume he was a yes man but we don't truly know if he questioned club policy or process in private. One of the reasons they gave for sacking Hughton was that he was too much of a push over and just accepted things. I think the picture he paints could entirely true it could also be a complete lie, but we don't know for sure, nor will we likely ever know. He is absolutely right though that surounding yourselves with yes men will get you nowhere in business, Ashley is a multi billionaire he could never have gotten that successful in business by recruiting yes men all the time, maybe NUFC is his exemption who knows. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
matta Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 no future in ashley/charnleys dreaming. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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