The College Dropout Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 He's not "poor" in the air FFS! http://www.whoscored.com/Players/104368 Chancel Mbemba's Characteristics - have a gander at his weaknesses. These are just the facts to back up obvious observations. So he's won half of his aerial duels? If he was poor, he'd be winning much less surely? What about strikers who score 1 out of their 3 shots? Are they poor? Anyone can use stats to prove a point. The eyes & brain combination is a better indicator IMO, and I can confidently say that Mbemba has had a very promising start to his PL career, and has shown a lot more strength than weakness. He's the least of our problems in defence. Winning half isn't really enough for a centre half like. I wouldn't worry about it too much though given he's young It's something to worry about this season tbh, as he's partnered next to someone with that exact same weakness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I've never noticed Mbemba being poor in the air TBH. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I've never noticed Mbemba being poor in the air TBH. Neither have I but then I'm reading these stats and thinking I must be seeing things. He's got beat on one for definite in one of the early games, but he seems to get up quite well for the most part. We do need a giant centre back in the back four mind, and he's not one of those. Maybe we should discuss which one we should go for in the January window in this Jack Colback thread? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themanupstairs Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 He's not "poor" in the air FFS! http://www.whoscored.com/Players/104368 Chancel Mbemba's Characteristics - have a gander at his weaknesses. These are just the facts to back up obvious observations. So he's won half of his aerial duels? If he was poor, he'd be winning much less surely? What about strikers who score 1 out of their 3 shots? Are they poor? Anyone can use stats to prove a point. The eyes & brain combination is a better indicator IMO, and I can confidently say that Mbemba has had a very promising start to his PL career, and has shown a lot more strength than weakness. He's the least of our problems in defence. 1. Like I said, it's an observation that i've tried to back up with facts. We've conceded goals from Mbemba losing out in the air and from his poor headed clearances. We also look very susceptible to concede from set-pieces of which Mbemba is part of the problem. 2. You really think a CB should win half his aerial battles? By comparison: Van Dijk has won 27 of 36. Vertonghen 24 of 38. Smalling 34 of 56. Coloccini 12 of 22. I find it disingenuous that Colback gets a lot of stick for actually engaging his brain for once and making sure not to pick up a suspension. But another player can consistently lack in such a important area for his position and it's never mentioned. The same thing happened with Colo when his lack of physicality really began to cost us. I'm here to criticise Colback when it comes to holding on the ball for too long, always choosing the safe pass, not showing for the ball enough and being immobile as owt. But we should be fair in our assessments. 1. The point I was making was that stats don't take into account the circumstances in which these "duels" were won or lost. A defender could still win a header by "accident", with his eyes closed, and by the same token do his utmost best to win one but fails to do so because of a nudge in the back or a missed-step etc. The stats are ridiculous in that they make all aerial duels exactly the same, which if one knew anything about football, they'd know that isn't the case. Rather than use stats, I'd rather point to the strengths and weaknesses of a player from a bird's eye view. No one denies that Mbemba has weaknesses, but he isn't "poor" in the air. Bringing this up in every thread, then going on to applaud Colback for not getting booked is insanity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 So - Nobody/any other Mods, that post is fine and dandy? I have no problems with it, hence laughing at you reporting it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Over 9 games - everything you talk about more or less evens out. As evidence that it's no surprise that Van Dijk wins more aerial duels than Fabricio Coloccini. As evidenced that Colo who we all agree is poor in the air, has a similar success rate in the air to Chancel - lower than the others I highlighted. I'd be surprised if you could highlight more than 1 CB who is considered good in the air who has a similarly poor aerial duel stat. That's because the stat is fairly indicative of overall aerial competence for a CB. And again - it's from an observation i've made with my eyes that i've looked to see could be substantiated with facts. That stat probably wouldn't count the first Norwich goal. Or the poor clearance for Payet's goal. But it's indicative of the issue. We look susceptible from crosses and set-pieces. He gets beaten too often for a CB in the air. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Coloccini can control the ball fantastically well but that's about it. He can't talk, head, run or read the game to a high enough level anymore and he's our captain. There was a point where we were 5-2 at weekend and Coloccini was waltzing up the left wing closing their players down. I'd rather have an average football but a fantastic defender playing there. I'd have Dummett or Taylor over him these days, easy. I was his biggest fan around the time he signed his 5 year contract with Krul but he's regressed so far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themanupstairs Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Over 9 games - everything you talk about more or less evens out. As evidence that it's no surprise that Van Dijk wins more aerial duels than Fabricio Coloccini. As evidenced that Colo who we all agree is poor in the air, has a similar success rate in the air to Chancel - lower than the others I highlighted. I'd be surprised if you could highlight more than 1 CB who is considered good in the air who has a similarly poor aerial duel stat. That's because the stat is fairly indicative of overall aerial competence for a CB. And again - it's from an observation i've made with my eyes that i've looked to see could be substantiated with facts. That stat probably wouldn't count the first Norwich goal. Or the poor clearance for Payet's goal. But it's indicative of the issue. We look susceptible from crosses and set-pieces. He gets beaten too often for a CB in the air. Height is another issue. You have highlighted Van Dijk who is probably a good 10cm taller than both Mbemba and Coloccini. It's easier the taller you are to rack up the numbers for obvious reasons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 That's no excuse. It's a weakness we need to address. Perhaps if uncle Joe had signed that Brazilian lad on a free. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Over 9 games - everything you talk about more or less evens out. As evidence that it's no surprise that Van Dijk wins more aerial duels than Fabricio Coloccini. As evidenced that Colo who we all agree is poor in the air, has a similar success rate in the air to Chancel - lower than the others I highlighted. I'd be surprised if you could highlight more than 1 CB who is considered good in the air who has a similarly poor aerial duel stat. That's because the stat is fairly indicative of overall aerial competence for a CB. And again - it's from an observation i've made with my eyes that i've looked to see could be substantiated with facts. That stat probably wouldn't count the first Norwich goal. Or the poor clearance for Payet's goal. But it's indicative of the issue. We look susceptible from crosses and set-pieces. He gets beaten too often for a CB in the air. That's because quite a lot of teams have one giant CB and one who is okay in the air but generally much better at other things like tackling, anticipation, reading the game etc. We have two who are more like the latter. It's a problem we've had for some time now, that doesn't mean these are bad defenders, just the recruitment side is not being done right. But I'm sure you know this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Mods have to be consistent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_NUFC Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 This is getting beyond tedious now. Take it outside, or the refs have to stop these imaginary yellow cards being given everywhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Spot on TRon. We keep signing the same type of player Mbiwa was the same. We need a bulldozer and a good one. That's why Shawcross gets brought up every window. He's not realistic but it's that type we need. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_NUFC Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Spot on TRon. We keep signing the same type of player Mbiwa was the same. We need a bulldozer and a good one. That's why Shawcross gets brought up every window. He's not realistic but it's that type we need. Aren't there any big fuck-you defenders in the Championship anymore that we can pick up? Someone better than Willo, of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymc1 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Spot on TRon. We keep signing the same type of player Mbiwa was the same. We need a bulldozer and a good one. That's why Shawcross gets brought up every window. He's not realistic but it's that type we need. Aren't there any big fuck-you defenders in the Championship anymore that we can pick up? Someone better than Willo, of course. Yes there might well be - and it would be nice if we could discuss this in the transfer threads. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Spot on TRon. We keep signing the same type of player Mbiwa was the same. We need a bulldozer and a good one. That's why Shawcross gets brought up every window. He's not realistic but it's that type we need. Aren't there any big fuck-you defenders in the Championship anymore that we can pick up? Someone better than Willo, of course. Been linked with Slam Dunk at Brighton a few times, he's canny tall. Just signed a new deal and is local to Brighton though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Over 9 games - everything you talk about more or less evens out. As evidence that it's no surprise that Van Dijk wins more aerial duels than Fabricio Coloccini. As evidenced that Colo who we all agree is poor in the air, has a similar success rate in the air to Chancel - lower than the others I highlighted. I'd be surprised if you could highlight more than 1 CB who is considered good in the air who has a similarly poor aerial duel stat. That's because the stat is fairly indicative of overall aerial competence for a CB. And again - it's from an observation i've made with my eyes that i've looked to see could be substantiated with facts. That stat probably wouldn't count the first Norwich goal. Or the poor clearance for Payet's goal. But it's indicative of the issue. We look susceptible from crosses and set-pieces. He gets beaten too often for a CB in the air. That's because quite a lot of teams have one giant CB and one who is okay in the air but generally much better at other things like tackling, anticipation, reading the game etc. We have two who are more like the latter. It's a problem we've had for some time now, that doesn't mean these are bad defenders, just the recruitment side is not being done right. But I'm sure you know this. This is my exact point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Mods have to be consistent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 This is still the Colback thread yeah? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_NUFC Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 We're discussing Championship center-backs. Keep up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xLiaaamx Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Spot on TRon. We keep signing the same type of player Mbiwa was the same. We need a bulldozer and a good one. That's why Shawcross gets brought up every window. He's not realistic but it's that type we need. Aren't there any big f***-you defenders in the Championship anymore that we can pick up? Someone better than Willo, of course. We already picked one up, he's on the bench Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 http://www.whoscored.com/Players/55378008/ http://i.imgur.com/XFJz7kW.png Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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