Hatem Ben Arfa (now retired?)

[Skeletor]

I wish people could actually give detailed specifics about what HBA ever did wrong rather than relying on vague generalisations about his behaviour. No-one seems to be able to give any though.

 

Good luck with that.

 

Can imagine people don't want to be done for libel so the generic option is the easiest option to manipulate opinion.

[Hughesy]

Shouldn't be a problem if it is true..

[Carlito]

I wish people could actually give detailed specifics about what HBA ever did wrong rather than relying on vague generalisations about his behaviour. No-one seems to be able to give any though.

 

Maybe if those who think he's great (based on very little evidence) could point out to us "sheep" instances where he has been consistently brilliant game after game (for any club) maybe, just maybe, we'd understand the love he gets.

 

His brilliance is a myth, his talent is there for all to see, but his use/application of that talent is beyond a disgrace and as such he's worthless.

 

Surely Real, Barca and Bayern are pestering his agent to death right now because reading some of the tripe in this thread they mustn't know what they're doing otherwise.

 

You must be forgetting all of those games where he was brought on as a sub with 10-15 minutes left where we were complete dogshit, and yet he still managed to give us a bit of "fret" and creativity, whilst Pardew still used him as a scapegoat for "not doing enough". He was one of the only players we had that was willing to run at the defense and go past them.

 

Not saying he couldn't be frustrating at times because he could, but someone of his ability should be starting games because of what he brings to the team.

[Guest neesy111]

His stats already show he is our most productive midfielder. What more evidence do you need? Show me a player we've had in the last 5 years who was consistently excellent game after game? Even Cabaye wasn't.

 

Reminds me of the KP situation.

[Dokko]

If he wasn't such an awkward character then why has it ended up like this? Especially if he's such a consistent force on the pitch.

 

If you look at it logically, and not peering out of his arse for just one moment you'd realise it doesn't add up. Not here or at any of the other clubs he's been to and left under a cloud of bitterness and resentment by all parties.

[Toonpack]

I wish people could actually give detailed specifics about what HBA ever did wrong rather than relying on vague generalisations about his behaviour. No-one seems to be able to give any though.

 

Maybe if those who think he's great (based on very little evidence) could point out to us "sheep" instances where he has been consistently brilliant game after game (for any club) maybe, just maybe, we'd understand the love he gets.

 

His brilliance is a myth, his talent is there for all to see, but his use/application of that talent is beyond a disgrace and as such he's worthless.

 

Surely Real, Barca and Bayern are pestering his agent to death right now because reading some of the tripe in this thread they mustn't know what they're doing otherwise.

It's been done to death on here in every way. Examples of him playing well and being dropped, stats showing he's a 1 in 3.5 goal scorer and 1 in 4 assister, stats in comparison to our other players, examples of players he's been dropped in favour of etc etc etc and yet still people like you either/or A. Ignore it. B. Dismiss it or C. Come out with the sort of utter nonsense that's in your final paragraph there. In fact all of it is generalised, unsubstantiated, fabricated, weapons grade horseshit tbh.

 

My last paragraph is weapons grade horseshit is it So Real, Bayern and Barca are clamouring for his services then.

 

He's a lazy waste of talent.

[Skeletor]

Shouldn't be a problem if it is true..

 

It's not. That's the issue.

[Dave]

If he wasn't such an awkward character then why has it ended up like this? Especially if he's such a consistent force on the pitch.

 

If you look at it logically, and not peering out of his arse for just one moment you'd realise it doesn't add up. Not here or at any of the other clubs he's been to and left under a cloud of bitterness and resentment by all parties.

 

He's clearly not a full shilling, there's little doubt about that. Doesn't mean we shouldn't have been able to get far more out of him. A good manager would have, not wankers like Pardew and Bruce who are all about graft over craft. If he was as rounded as some appear to expect, there's not a chance he'd have been here in the first place, and that includes us taking advantage of him falling out with his previous club.

[Guest firetotheworks]

I wish people could actually give detailed specifics about what HBA ever did wrong rather than relying on vague generalisations about his behaviour. No-one seems to be able to give any though.

 

Maybe if those who think he's great (based on very little evidence) could point out to us "sheep" instances where he has been consistently brilliant game after game (for any club) maybe, just maybe, we'd understand the love he gets.

 

His brilliance is a myth, his talent is there for all to see, but his use/application of that talent is beyond a disgrace and as such he's worthless.

 

Surely Real, Barca and Bayern are pestering his agent to death right now because reading some of the tripe in this thread they mustn't know what they're doing otherwise.

It's been done to death on here in every way. Examples of him playing well and being dropped, stats showing he's a 1 in 3.5 goal scorer and 1 in 4 assister, stats in comparison to our other players, examples of players he's been dropped in favour of etc etc etc and yet still people like you either/or A. Ignore it. B. Dismiss it or C. Come out with the sort of utter nonsense that's in your final paragraph there. In fact all of it is generalised, unsubstantiated, fabricated, weapons grade horseshit tbh.

 

My last paragraph is weapons grade horseshit is it So Real, Bayern and Barca are clamouring for his services then.

 

He's a lazy waste of talent.

 

Sorry, maybe I should have made it even easier for you to understand. It's horseshit because

1. Absolutely no one is saying that those teams are or should be clamouring for his services

2. It's irrelevant when he was behind players like Dan Gosling, Shola Ameobi, Ryan Taylor and Gabriel Obertan in the pecking order. Clamoured for by Bournemouth, a second division Turkish side, no one and no one.

 

Is that a bit easier for you to understand now?

[Dokko]

If he wasn't such an awkward character then why has it ended up like this? Especially if he's such a consistent force on the pitch.

 

If you look at it logically, and not peering out of his arse for just one moment you'd realise it doesn't add up. Not here or at any of the other clubs he's been to and left under a cloud of bitterness and resentment by all parties.

 

He's clearly not a full shilling, there's little doubt about that. Doesn't mean we shouldn't have been able to get far more out of him. A good manager would have, not wankers like Pardew and Bruce who are all about graft over craft. If he was as rounded as some appear to expect, there's not a chance he'd have been here in the first place, and that includes us taking advantage of him falling out with his previous club.

 

We should have got more out of him, but he should have got far more out of himself. His mentality is getting more wild and unpredictable and while he's not playing football his talent is taking a nose dive. Not at any point has the lad himself decided he wants to change things, he's decided to keep going the way he has and this is why he's ended up destroying his own career. Nice will expect him to buck up his ideas, but he won't and he might get away with it due to the quality of the league but only they'll take so much and he could see himself ousted again.

 

You can't blame Pardew for this, for most part hba comments on Pardew have been positive and if anything it sounded like Pardew gave him too much leeway, pissed off senior players and when Pardew wanted it to change gave him a final ultimatum which blew up in both their faces. Senior players no longer wanted him around the dressing room and put their foot down. Just because he was made the poster boy by the fans against Pardew doesn't mean that's all it was, Pardew vs hba, this issues ran much deeper and with a lot more people within the club.

 

In the end too much trouble coming in to his final year where a decision had to be made, just like Barton the club had enough with his antics and got rid. It's sad it ended like this, but understandable.

[Guest firetotheworks]

If he wasn't such an awkward character then why has it ended up like this? Especially if he's such a consistent force on the pitch.

 

If you look at it logically, and not peering out of his arse for just one moment you'd realise it doesn't add up. Not here or at any of the other clubs he's been to and left under a cloud of bitterness and resentment by all parties.

 

He's clearly not a full shilling, there's little doubt about that. Doesn't mean we shouldn't have been able to get far more out of him. A good manager would have, not wankers like Pardew and Bruce who are all about graft over craft. If he was as rounded as some appear to expect, there's not a chance he'd have been here in the first place, and that includes us taking advantage of him falling out with his previous club.

 

We should have got more out of him, but he should have got far more out of himself. His mentality is getting more wild and unpredictable and while he's not playing football his talent is taking a nose dive. Not at any point has the lad himself decided he wants to change things, he's decided to keep going the way he has and this is why he's ended up destroying his own career. Nice will expect him to buck up his ideas, but he won't and he might get away with it due to the quality of the league but only they'll take so much and he could see himself ousted again.

 

You can't blame Pardew for this, for most part hba comments on Pardew have been positive and if anything it sounded like Pardew gave him too much leeway, pissed off senior players and when Pardew wanted it to change gave him a final ultimatum which blew up in both their faces. Senior players no longer wanted him around the dressing room and put their foot down. Just because he was made the poster boy by the fans against Pardew doesn't mean that's all it was, Pardew vs hba, this issues ran much deeper and with a lot more people within the club.

 

In the end too much trouble coming in to his final year where a decision had to be made, just like Barton the club had enough with his antics and got rid.

 

The point stands and will always stand imo that on the pitch is all that matters if you can come up with the goods. Imo he could and (when started) did. We're talking about a player here that was dropped when he was in form last season. Bellamy was a prick, Robert was too, loads of players are dicks and by the sounds of it HBA isn't all there either, but if you're going to invest more in off-the-field unknowns from a notorious liar over what you watch on the pitch come the weekend then I'm not sure what to say...

[Carlito]

If he wasn't such an awkward character then why has it ended up like this? Especially if he's such a consistent force on the pitch.

 

If you look at it logically, and not peering out of his arse for just one moment you'd realise it doesn't add up. Not here or at any of the other clubs he's been to and left under a cloud of bitterness and resentment by all parties.

 

He's clearly not a full shilling, there's little doubt about that. Doesn't mean we shouldn't have been able to get far more out of him. A good manager would have, not w*****s like Pardew and Bruce who are all about graft over craft. If he was as rounded as some appear to expect, there's not a chance he'd have been here in the first place, and that includes us taking advantage of him falling out with his previous club.

 

We should have got more out of him, but he should have got far more out of himself. His mentality is getting more wild and unpredictable and while he's not playing football his talent is taking a nose dive. Not at any point has the lad himself decided he wants to change things, he's decided to keep going the way he has and this is why he's ended up destroying his own career. Nice will expect him to buck up his ideas, but he won't and he might get away with it due to the quality of the league but only they'll take so much and he could see himself ousted again.

 

You can't blame Pardew for this, for most part hba comments on Pardew have been positive and if anything it sounded like Pardew gave him too much leeway, p*ssed off senior players and when Pardew wanted it to change gave him a final ultimatum which blew up in both their faces. Senior players no longer wanted him around the dressing room and put their foot down. Just because he was made the poster boy by the fans against Pardew doesn't mean that's all it was, Pardew vs hba, this issues ran much deeper and with a lot more people within the club.

 

In the end too much trouble coming in to his final year where a decision had to be made, just like Barton the club had enough with his antics and got rid.

 

The point stands and will always stand imo that on the pitch is all that matters if you can come up with the goods. Imo he could and (when started) did. We're talking about a player here that was dropped when he was in form last season. Bellamy was a prick, Robert was too, loads of players are dicks and by the sounds of it HBA isn't all there either, but if you're going to invest more in off-the-field unknowns from a notorious liar over what you watch on the pitch come the weekend then I'm not sure what to say...

 

Exactly. Throw the likes of Dyer in there as well. A good manager will get the best out of them regardless of their personalities off the field. HBA was a massive part of our success during the 11-12 season.

[Guest TruToon94]

Stupid decision. The new manager should have been able to come in and decide whether he could train with him/keep him...

 

This just looks to me like more writing on the wall for Carver staying in charge which will be a fucking nightmare.

 

 

[Dokko]

If he wasn't such an awkward character then why has it ended up like this? Especially if he's such a consistent force on the pitch.

 

If you look at it logically, and not peering out of his arse for just one moment you'd realise it doesn't add up. Not here or at any of the other clubs he's been to and left under a cloud of bitterness and resentment by all parties.

 

He's clearly not a full shilling, there's little doubt about that. Doesn't mean we shouldn't have been able to get far more out of him. A good manager would have, not wankers like Pardew and Bruce who are all about graft over craft. If he was as rounded as some appear to expect, there's not a chance he'd have been here in the first place, and that includes us taking advantage of him falling out with his previous club.

 

We should have got more out of him, but he should have got far more out of himself. His mentality is getting more wild and unpredictable and while he's not playing football his talent is taking a nose dive. Not at any point has the lad himself decided he wants to change things, he's decided to keep going the way he has and this is why he's ended up destroying his own career. Nice will expect him to buck up his ideas, but he won't and he might get away with it due to the quality of the league but only they'll take so much and he could see himself ousted again.

 

You can't blame Pardew for this, for most part hba comments on Pardew have been positive and if anything it sounded like Pardew gave him too much leeway, pissed off senior players and when Pardew wanted it to change gave him a final ultimatum which blew up in both their faces. Senior players no longer wanted him around the dressing room and put their foot down. Just because he was made the poster boy by the fans against Pardew doesn't mean that's all it was, Pardew vs hba, this issues ran much deeper and with a lot more people within the club.

 

In the end too much trouble coming in to his final year where a decision had to be made, just like Barton the club had enough with his antics and got rid.

 

The point stands and will always stand imo that on the pitch is all that matters if you can come up with the goods. Imo he could and (when started) did. We're talking about a player here that was dropped when he was in form last season. Bellamy was a prick, Robert was too, loads of players are dicks and by the sounds of it HBA isn't all there either, but if you're going to invest more in off-the-field unknowns from a notorious liar over what you watch on the pitch come the weekend then I'm not sure what to say...

 

Its not all that matters, that's completely short sighted. You think the lorded Tuchel or FdB would put up with some petulant workshy disruption walking around training like he doesn't have to put in any effort? You mention Bellamy who'd berate his own players in training for not putting in 100% in practise matches. If HBA had Bellamy's mentality he'd be where HBA thinks he should be, alongside Messi at Barca.

 

My opinion has nothing to do with anything Pardew has said about him.

[Toonpack]

I wish people could actually give detailed specifics about what HBA ever did wrong rather than relying on vague generalisations about his behaviour. No-one seems to be able to give any though.

 

Maybe if those who think he's great (based on very little evidence) could point out to us "sheep" instances where he has been consistently brilliant game after game (for any club) maybe, just maybe, we'd understand the love he gets.

 

His brilliance is a myth, his talent is there for all to see, but his use/application of that talent is beyond a disgrace and as such he's worthless.

 

Surely Real, Barca and Bayern are pestering his agent to death right now because reading some of the tripe in this thread they mustn't know what they're doing otherwise.

It's been done to death on here in every way. Examples of him playing well and being dropped, stats showing he's a 1 in 3.5 goal scorer and 1 in 4 assister, stats in comparison to our other players, examples of players he's been dropped in favour of etc etc etc and yet still people like you either/or A. Ignore it. B. Dismiss it or C. Come out with the sort of utter nonsense that's in your final paragraph there. In fact all of it is generalised, unsubstantiated, fabricated, weapons grade horseshit tbh.

 

My last paragraph is weapons grade horseshit is it So Real, Bayern and Barca are clamouring for his services then.

 

He's a lazy waste of talent.

 

Sorry, maybe I should have made it even easier for you to understand. It's horseshit because

1. Absolutely no one is saying that those teams are or should be clamouring for his services

2. It's irrelevant when he was behind players like Dan Gosling, Shola Ameobi, Ryan Taylor and Gabriel Obertan in the pecking order. Clamoured for by Bournemouth, a second division Turkish side, no one and no one.

 

Is that a bit easier for you to understand now?

 

So you agree that HBA is a ridiculous waste of talent then.

[joeyt]

Sky Sports say its a loan deal fwiw, not that it really matters

[Guest firetotheworks]

I wish people could actually give detailed specifics about what HBA ever did wrong rather than relying on vague generalisations about his behaviour. No-one seems to be able to give any though.

 

Maybe if those who think he's great (based on very little evidence) could point out to us "sheep" instances where he has been consistently brilliant game after game (for any club) maybe, just maybe, we'd understand the love he gets.

 

His brilliance is a myth, his talent is there for all to see, but his use/application of that talent is beyond a disgrace and as such he's worthless.

 

Surely Real, Barca and Bayern are pestering his agent to death right now because reading some of the tripe in this thread they mustn't know what they're doing otherwise.

It's been done to death on here in every way. Examples of him playing well and being dropped, stats showing he's a 1 in 3.5 goal scorer and 1 in 4 assister, stats in comparison to our other players, examples of players he's been dropped in favour of etc etc etc and yet still people like you either/or A. Ignore it. B. Dismiss it or C. Come out with the sort of utter nonsense that's in your final paragraph there. In fact all of it is generalised, unsubstantiated, fabricated, weapons grade horseshit tbh.

 

My last paragraph is weapons grade horseshit is it So Real, Bayern and Barca are clamouring for his services then.

 

He's a lazy waste of talent.

 

Sorry, maybe I should have made it even easier for you to understand. It's horseshit because

1. Absolutely no one is saying that those teams are or should be clamouring for his services

2. It's irrelevant when he was behind players like Dan Gosling, Shola Ameobi, Ryan Taylor and Gabriel Obertan in the pecking order. Clamoured for by Bournemouth, a second division Turkish side, no one and no one.

 

Is that a bit easier for you to understand now?

 

So you agree that HBA is a ridiculous waste of talent then.

 

Oh fuck off man, you utter cretin.

[Guest firetotheworks]

If he wasn't such an awkward character then why has it ended up like this? Especially if he's such a consistent force on the pitch.

 

If you look at it logically, and not peering out of his arse for just one moment you'd realise it doesn't add up. Not here or at any of the other clubs he's been to and left under a cloud of bitterness and resentment by all parties.

 

He's clearly not a full shilling, there's little doubt about that. Doesn't mean we shouldn't have been able to get far more out of him. A good manager would have, not wankers like Pardew and Bruce who are all about graft over craft. If he was as rounded as some appear to expect, there's not a chance he'd have been here in the first place, and that includes us taking advantage of him falling out with his previous club.

 

We should have got more out of him, but he should have got far more out of himself. His mentality is getting more wild and unpredictable and while he's not playing football his talent is taking a nose dive. Not at any point has the lad himself decided he wants to change things, he's decided to keep going the way he has and this is why he's ended up destroying his own career. Nice will expect him to buck up his ideas, but he won't and he might get away with it due to the quality of the league but only they'll take so much and he could see himself ousted again.

 

You can't blame Pardew for this, for most part hba comments on Pardew have been positive and if anything it sounded like Pardew gave him too much leeway, pissed off senior players and when Pardew wanted it to change gave him a final ultimatum which blew up in both their faces. Senior players no longer wanted him around the dressing room and put their foot down. Just because he was made the poster boy by the fans against Pardew doesn't mean that's all it was, Pardew vs hba, this issues ran much deeper and with a lot more people within the club.

 

In the end too much trouble coming in to his final year where a decision had to be made, just like Barton the club had enough with his antics and got rid.

 

The point stands and will always stand imo that on the pitch is all that matters if you can come up with the goods. Imo he could and (when started) did. We're talking about a player here that was dropped when he was in form last season. Bellamy was a prick, Robert was too, loads of players are dicks and by the sounds of it HBA isn't all there either, but if you're going to invest more in off-the-field unknowns from a notorious liar over what you watch on the pitch come the weekend then I'm not sure what to say...

 

Its not all that matters, that's completely short sighted. You think the lorded Tuchel or FdB would put up with some petulant workshy disruption walking around training like he doesn't have to put in any effort? You mention Bellamy who'd berate his own players in training for not putting in 100% in practise matches. If HBA had Bellamy's mentality he'd be where HBA thinks he should be, alongside Messi at Barca.

 

My opinion has nothing to do with anything Pardew has said about him.

 

Short sighted in what way? Do you think that we played any better without him? You're making a straw man argument by bringing other managers into it. The facts are that for us, under Pardew, with the players we have, he played well and produced. The alternatives were far and away worse.

 

If we had another manager, better alternatives or better football without him, you would definitely have a point, but the fact is that we didn't and still dont. Whether you like it or not, last season he was dropped as arguably our best player, if you want to get into hearsay and rumour then that's absolutely fine, but again it works both ways and there are a lot of things that people have heard about what happened after the Man United defeat and about other players that backed him up.

 

I'm not defending his temperament, there's obviously something not quite right with him, but at the same time we're talking about a manager that ostracised Carlos Tevez and Javier Mascherano. Whether Pardew's decision was a personal or footballing one, either way it was the wrong one for me as a fan because we were better with him and the football was far more enjoyable.

[LoveItIfWeBeatU]

I'd imagine Ben Arfa is on high wages. I doubt Mike Ashley would have agreed to give him a new contract even if he came back into the squad and did well in the last six months of his contract. Ben Arfa won't have been viewed as good value for the money by Ashley. The savings made on his wages can be used else where e.g. to increase the offer to Aarons.

 

At least when Ben Arfa is no longer on NUFC's books it might bring to an end (or at least reduce) the constant arguing between those who love him and those who don't.

[Dokko]

If he wasn't such an awkward character then why has it ended up like this? Especially if he's such a consistent force on the pitch.

 

If you look at it logically, and not peering out of his arse for just one moment you'd realise it doesn't add up. Not here or at any of the other clubs he's been to and left under a cloud of bitterness and resentment by all parties.

 

He's clearly not a full shilling, there's little doubt about that. Doesn't mean we shouldn't have been able to get far more out of him. A good manager would have, not wankers like Pardew and Bruce who are all about graft over craft. If he was as rounded as some appear to expect, there's not a chance he'd have been here in the first place, and that includes us taking advantage of him falling out with his previous club.

 

We should have got more out of him, but he should have got far more out of himself. His mentality is getting more wild and unpredictable and while he's not playing football his talent is taking a nose dive. Not at any point has the lad himself decided he wants to change things, he's decided to keep going the way he has and this is why he's ended up destroying his own career. Nice will expect him to buck up his ideas, but he won't and he might get away with it due to the quality of the league but only they'll take so much and he could see himself ousted again.

 

You can't blame Pardew for this, for most part hba comments on Pardew have been positive and if anything it sounded like Pardew gave him too much leeway, pissed off senior players and when Pardew wanted it to change gave him a final ultimatum which blew up in both their faces. Senior players no longer wanted him around the dressing room and put their foot down. Just because he was made the poster boy by the fans against Pardew doesn't mean that's all it was, Pardew vs hba, this issues ran much deeper and with a lot more people within the club.

 

In the end too much trouble coming in to his final year where a decision had to be made, just like Barton the club had enough with his antics and got rid.

 

The point stands and will always stand imo that on the pitch is all that matters if you can come up with the goods. Imo he could and (when started) did. We're talking about a player here that was dropped when he was in form last season. Bellamy was a prick, Robert was too, loads of players are dicks and by the sounds of it HBA isn't all there either, but if you're going to invest more in off-the-field unknowns from a notorious liar over what you watch on the pitch come the weekend then I'm not sure what to say...

 

Its not all that matters, that's completely short sighted. You think the lorded Tuchel or FdB would put up with some petulant workshy disruption walking around training like he doesn't have to put in any effort? You mention Bellamy who'd berate his own players in training for not putting in 100% in practise matches. If HBA had Bellamy's mentality he'd be where HBA thinks he should be, alongside Messi at Barca.

 

My opinion has nothing to do with anything Pardew has said about him.

 

Short sighted in what way? Do you think that we played any better without him? You're making a straw man argument by bringing other managers into it. The facts are that for us, under Pardew, with the players we have, he played well and produced. The alternatives were far and away worse.

 

If we had another manager, better alternatives or better football without him, you would definitely have a point, but the fact is that we didn't and still dont. Whether you like it or not, last season he was dropped as arguably our best player, if you want to get into hearsay and rumour then that's absolutely fine, but again it works both ways and there are a lot of things that people have heard about what happened after the Man United defeat and about other players that backed him up.

 

I'm not defending his temperament, there's obviously something not quite right with him, but at the same time we're talking about a manager that ostracised Carlos Tevez and Javier Mascherano. Whether Pardew's decision was a personal or footballing one, either way it was the wrong one for me as a fan because we were better with him and the football was far more enjoyable.

 

I'm making  'a straw man argument by bringing other managers into it' but its ok for you to bring other players in to it? 

 

 

[Guest firetotheworks]

If he wasn't such an awkward character then why has it ended up like this? Especially if he's such a consistent force on the pitch.

 

If you look at it logically, and not peering out of his arse for just one moment you'd realise it doesn't add up. Not here or at any of the other clubs he's been to and left under a cloud of bitterness and resentment by all parties.

 

He's clearly not a full shilling, there's little doubt about that. Doesn't mean we shouldn't have been able to get far more out of him. A good manager would have, not wankers like Pardew and Bruce who are all about graft over craft. If he was as rounded as some appear to expect, there's not a chance he'd have been here in the first place, and that includes us taking advantage of him falling out with his previous club.

 

We should have got more out of him, but he should have got far more out of himself. His mentality is getting more wild and unpredictable and while he's not playing football his talent is taking a nose dive. Not at any point has the lad himself decided he wants to change things, he's decided to keep going the way he has and this is why he's ended up destroying his own career. Nice will expect him to buck up his ideas, but he won't and he might get away with it due to the quality of the league but only they'll take so much and he could see himself ousted again.

 

You can't blame Pardew for this, for most part hba comments on Pardew have been positive and if anything it sounded like Pardew gave him too much leeway, pissed off senior players and when Pardew wanted it to change gave him a final ultimatum which blew up in both their faces. Senior players no longer wanted him around the dressing room and put their foot down. Just because he was made the poster boy by the fans against Pardew doesn't mean that's all it was, Pardew vs hba, this issues ran much deeper and with a lot more people within the club.

 

In the end too much trouble coming in to his final year where a decision had to be made, just like Barton the club had enough with his antics and got rid.

 

The point stands and will always stand imo that on the pitch is all that matters if you can come up with the goods. Imo he could and (when started) did. We're talking about a player here that was dropped when he was in form last season. Bellamy was a prick, Robert was too, loads of players are dicks and by the sounds of it HBA isn't all there either, but if you're going to invest more in off-the-field unknowns from a notorious liar over what you watch on the pitch come the weekend then I'm not sure what to say...

 

Its not all that matters, that's completely short sighted. You think the lorded Tuchel or FdB would put up with some petulant workshy disruption walking around training like he doesn't have to put in any effort? You mention Bellamy who'd berate his own players in training for not putting in 100% in practise matches. If HBA had Bellamy's mentality he'd be where HBA thinks he should be, alongside Messi at Barca.

 

My opinion has nothing to do with anything Pardew has said about him.

 

Short sighted in what way? Do you think that we played any better without him? You're making a straw man argument by bringing other managers into it. The facts are that for us, under Pardew, with the players we have, he played well and produced. The alternatives were far and away worse.

 

If we had another manager, better alternatives or better football without him, you would definitely have a point, but the fact is that we didn't and still dont. Whether you like it or not, last season he was dropped as arguably our best player, if you want to get into hearsay and rumour then that's absolutely fine, but again it works both ways and there are a lot of things that people have heard about what happened after the Man United defeat and about other players that backed him up.

 

I'm not defending his temperament, there's obviously something not quite right with him, but at the same time we're talking about a manager that ostracised Carlos Tevez and Javier Mascherano. Whether Pardew's decision was a personal or footballing one, either way it was the wrong one for me as a fan because we were better with him and the football was far more enjoyable.

 

I'm making  'a straw man argument by bringing other managers into it' but its ok for you to bring other players in to it? 

 

 

 

Yes, because that's an actual event that occurred with Pardew and those two players, not one that's been made up.

[Dokko]

If he wasn't such an awkward character then why has it ended up like this? Especially if he's such a consistent force on the pitch.

 

If you look at it logically, and not peering out of his arse for just one moment you'd realise it doesn't add up. Not here or at any of the other clubs he's been to and left under a cloud of bitterness and resentment by all parties.

 

He's clearly not a full shilling, there's little doubt about that. Doesn't mean we shouldn't have been able to get far more out of him. A good manager would have, not wankers like Pardew and Bruce who are all about graft over craft. If he was as rounded as some appear to expect, there's not a chance he'd have been here in the first place, and that includes us taking advantage of him falling out with his previous club.

 

We should have got more out of him, but he should have got far more out of himself. His mentality is getting more wild and unpredictable and while he's not playing football his talent is taking a nose dive. Not at any point has the lad himself decided he wants to change things, he's decided to keep going the way he has and this is why he's ended up destroying his own career. Nice will expect him to buck up his ideas, but he won't and he might get away with it due to the quality of the league but only they'll take so much and he could see himself ousted again.

 

You can't blame Pardew for this, for most part hba comments on Pardew have been positive and if anything it sounded like Pardew gave him too much leeway, pissed off senior players and when Pardew wanted it to change gave him a final ultimatum which blew up in both their faces. Senior players no longer wanted him around the dressing room and put their foot down. Just because he was made the poster boy by the fans against Pardew doesn't mean that's all it was, Pardew vs hba, this issues ran much deeper and with a lot more people within the club.

 

In the end too much trouble coming in to his final year where a decision had to be made, just like Barton the club had enough with his antics and got rid.

 

The point stands and will always stand imo that on the pitch is all that matters if you can come up with the goods. Imo he could and (when started) did. We're talking about a player here that was dropped when he was in form last season. Bellamy was a prick, Robert was too, loads of players are dicks and by the sounds of it HBA isn't all there either, but if you're going to invest more in off-the-field unknowns from a notorious liar over what you watch on the pitch come the weekend then I'm not sure what to say...

 

Its not all that matters, that's completely short sighted. You think the lorded Tuchel or FdB would put up with some petulant workshy disruption walking around training like he doesn't have to put in any effort? You mention Bellamy who'd berate his own players in training for not putting in 100% in practise matches. If HBA had Bellamy's mentality he'd be where HBA thinks he should be, alongside Messi at Barca.

 

My opinion has nothing to do with anything Pardew has said about him.

 

Short sighted in what way? Do you think that we played any better without him? You're making a straw man argument by bringing other managers into it. The facts are that for us, under Pardew, with the players we have, he played well and produced. The alternatives were far and away worse.

 

If we had another manager, better alternatives or better football without him, you would definitely have a point, but the fact is that we didn't and still dont. Whether you like it or not, last season he was dropped as arguably our best player, if you want to get into hearsay and rumour then that's absolutely fine, but again it works both ways and there are a lot of things that people have heard about what happened after the Man United defeat and about other players that backed him up.

 

I'm not defending his temperament, there's obviously something not quite right with him, but at the same time we're talking about a manager that ostracised Carlos Tevez and Javier Mascherano. Whether Pardew's decision was a personal or footballing one, either way it was the wrong one for me as a fan because we were better with him and the football was far more enjoyable.

 

I'm making  'a straw man argument by bringing other managers into it' but its ok for you to bring other players in to it? 

 

 

 

Yes, because that's an actual event that occurred with Pardew and those two players, not one that's been made up.

 

An event with Bellamy, Robert and Pardew? Ok. Just making it up as you go along, im done. 

[Guest firetotheworks]

If he wasn't such an awkward character then why has it ended up like this? Especially if he's such a consistent force on the pitch.

 

If you look at it logically, and not peering out of his arse for just one moment you'd realise it doesn't add up. Not here or at any of the other clubs he's been to and left under a cloud of bitterness and resentment by all parties.

 

He's clearly not a full shilling, there's little doubt about that. Doesn't mean we shouldn't have been able to get far more out of him. A good manager would have, not wankers like Pardew and Bruce who are all about graft over craft. If he was as rounded as some appear to expect, there's not a chance he'd have been here in the first place, and that includes us taking advantage of him falling out with his previous club.

 

We should have got more out of him, but he should have got far more out of himself. His mentality is getting more wild and unpredictable and while he's not playing football his talent is taking a nose dive. Not at any point has the lad himself decided he wants to change things, he's decided to keep going the way he has and this is why he's ended up destroying his own career. Nice will expect him to buck up his ideas, but he won't and he might get away with it due to the quality of the league but only they'll take so much and he could see himself ousted again.

 

You can't blame Pardew for this, for most part hba comments on Pardew have been positive and if anything it sounded like Pardew gave him too much leeway, pissed off senior players and when Pardew wanted it to change gave him a final ultimatum which blew up in both their faces. Senior players no longer wanted him around the dressing room and put their foot down. Just because he was made the poster boy by the fans against Pardew doesn't mean that's all it was, Pardew vs hba, this issues ran much deeper and with a lot more people within the club.

 

In the end too much trouble coming in to his final year where a decision had to be made, just like Barton the club had enough with his antics and got rid.

 

The point stands and will always stand imo that on the pitch is all that matters if you can come up with the goods. Imo he could and (when started) did. We're talking about a player here that was dropped when he was in form last season. Bellamy was a prick, Robert was too, loads of players are dicks and by the sounds of it HBA isn't all there either, but if you're going to invest more in off-the-field unknowns from a notorious liar over what you watch on the pitch come the weekend then I'm not sure what to say...

 

Its not all that matters, that's completely short sighted. You think the lorded Tuchel or FdB would put up with some petulant workshy disruption walking around training like he doesn't have to put in any effort? You mention Bellamy who'd berate his own players in training for not putting in 100% in practise matches. If HBA had Bellamy's mentality he'd be where HBA thinks he should be, alongside Messi at Barca.

 

My opinion has nothing to do with anything Pardew has said about him.

 

Short sighted in what way? Do you think that we played any better without him? You're making a straw man argument by bringing other managers into it. The facts are that for us, under Pardew, with the players we have, he played well and produced. The alternatives were far and away worse.

 

If we had another manager, better alternatives or better football without him, you would definitely have a point, but the fact is that we didn't and still dont. Whether you like it or not, last season he was dropped as arguably our best player, if you want to get into hearsay and rumour then that's absolutely fine, but again it works both ways and there are a lot of things that people have heard about what happened after the Man United defeat and about other players that backed him up.

 

I'm not defending his temperament, there's obviously something not quite right with him, but at the same time we're talking about a manager that ostracised Carlos Tevez and Javier Mascherano. Whether Pardew's decision was a personal or footballing one, either way it was the wrong one for me as a fan because we were better with him and the football was far more enjoyable.

 

I'm making  'a straw man argument by bringing other managers into it' but its ok for you to bring other players in to it? 

 

 

 

Yes, because that's an actual event that occurred with Pardew and those two players, not one that's been made up.

 

An event with Bellamy, Robert and Pardew? Ok.

 

Er what? I was talking about Tevez and Mascherano. My point about Robert and Bellamy was about overlooking them being dick heads if they produce on the pitch, both did and imo HBA did.

[Dave]

Pictured in front of The Borat Stand.

[Guest palnese]

Wtf is he wearing?