Hatem Ben Arfa (now retired?)

[SEMTEX]

When you're as shit as we are, talent alone is just fine.

[loki679]

Please name ONE Newcastle player that has improved under the guidance of Alan Pardew. Then try to defend his man management.

 

James Perch.  Um, Blob Jelliot likes him.

[Unbelievable]

Please name ONE Newcastle player that has improved under the guidance of Alan Pardew. Then try to defend his man management.

 

I'm not inclined in any way to do the latter, but several of our cheap squad players have improved in Pardew's time; the likes of Perch and Williamson. That probably tells you everthing you need to know about Pardew's level as a manager.

[Tiotes Witch Doctor]

"Imagine a player coming into training putting in half arsed effort, looking fat, short of breath and generally unfit and getting a game ahead of you? What sort of message does that send out to other seniors and especially younger squad members?

 

That would show the club as having no discipline, the manager as letting players walk over him and the give the impression to the rest of the first team squad that hard work & development is not important.

 

100% correct decision not to play him until he sorts his act out. He's a tremendous player and one of my favourites, but it's not worth compromising the club for one player who seemingly, can't be arsed."

 

 

"Starting any player in a game who potentially can't last 90 minutes due to fitness is a liability.

 

That coupled with the fact that senior players feel it is unfair that someone who doesn't work, train and eat to the same level of them should receive the same benefits, makes it a no brainer to leave him on the bench until he takes his head out his arse and applies himself in a manner which warrants his wages and teammates

commitment."

 

Hmmmm

[ads]

When you're as shit as we are, talent alone is just fine.

 

As fans, of course we want to see the likes of Ben Arfa, aside from Pedro I can't think of a more naturally gifted player we've had. Certainly in my lifetime.

 

I'm not condoning leaving him out, nor do I want him to be a 'defensive winger', I just think maybe there are certain things we don't know behind the scenes that's all.

[ads]

"Imagine a player coming into training putting in half arsed effort, looking fat, short of breath and generally unfit and getting a game ahead of you? What sort of message does that send out to other seniors and especially younger squad members?

 

That would show the club as having no discipline, the manager as letting players walk over him and the give the impression to the rest of the first team squad that hard work & development is not important.

 

100% correct decision not to play him until he sorts his act out. He's a tremendous player and one of my favourites, but it's not worth compromising the club for one player who seemingly, can't be arsed."

 

 

"Starting any player in a game who potentially can't last 90 minutes due to fitness is a liability.

 

That coupled with the fact that senior players feel it is unfair that someone who doesn't work, train and eat to the same level of them should receive the same benefits, makes it a no brainer to leave him on the bench until he takes his head out his arse and applies himself in a manner which warrants his wages and teammates

commitment."

 

Hmmmm

 

Where's this quote from?

[Darth Crooks]

Strikes me as in the same way Souness was an egotist; someone who spends a large degree of time establishing who's boss and after that point has very limited ideas. Ben Arfa has aspects of his personality that are less than desirable to be sure, but Pardew spites his own face just to look in charge. I find it highly unlikely that his attitude is so bad that he can't find a way back; that just strkies me as stubborness to admit he needs someone like him.

[ads]

Strikes me as in the same way Souness was an egotist; someone who spends a large degree of time establishing who's boss and after that point has very limited ideas. Ben Arfa has aspects of his personality that are less than desirable to be sure, but Pardew spites his own face just to look in charge. I find it highly unlikely that his attitude is so bad that he can't find a way back; that just strkies me as stubborness to admit he needs someone like him.

 

I'm inclined to agree with this. Pardew does seem the type to hold a grudge, being that he is, as I said earlier and have said numerous times in the past, a cunt.

 

However, back to the Ben Arfa issue - regardless of Pardew's cuntness and stubborness, Ben Arfa must have done something wrong in the first place to be left out at any point, thus being the one to blame in the first instance.

 

Imagine Steven Taylor showing up looking overweight and not seeming to give a shit but still getting games, we'd be calling for him to be dropped straight away (well, in actual fact, he could be the fittest mother fucker in the universe but I'd still have him nowhere near the first team but I'm trying to make a point...). Ben Arfa is supremely talented so we see his situation as harder to accept than if he was a Gosling, Taylor, Perch, Williamson character.

[Guest Haris Vuckic]

I don't think Ben Arfa's weight is as significant as it's made out to be. Even a fat Ben Arfa with a subway in his hand could put a lot of Premier League defenders on their arses.

 

I'm thinking Ben Arfa chinned him - as was rumoured

[TRon]

Please name ONE Newcastle player that has improved under the guidance of Alan Pardew. Then try to defend his man management.

 

I'm not inclined in any way to do the latter, but several of our cheap squad players have improved in Pardew's time; the likes of Perch and Williamson. That probably tells you everthing you need to know about Pardew's level as a manager.

 

That's a myth, neither of those players improved, they were ok players at that level at the time as well. I remember when everyone was slagging Perch I maintained that he had some good attributes and just because he became flavour of the month a while later doesn't mean Pardew had suddenly produced it.

 

as for what ads says, I accept that Marveaux and Ben Arfa might not be ideal squad members, but then Pardew has produced terrible performances with players he favours. S what's the point in sidelining those two when they could provide something the water carriers can't?

 

 

[ads]

nile ranger was a s*** bell end with a horrible attitude

let's say ben arfa is a bell end with a horrible attitude

 

if we were in a situation where our stunning team spirit made us a better team when he wasn't a part of it, that'd be fine, but we're not. he's our best player, and we're f***ing awful, and we look significantly better when he plays.

Again, behind the scenes Ben Arfa could have a dreadful attitude to training etc. He clearly doesn't look after himself as a professional football player does, and what example does that give to the players being left out to accommodate him?

 

Of course he's our most talented player, by an embarrassingly long way, but talent alone shouldn't get him in the team.

 

The fact is both Marveaux and Ben Arfa are capable of offering something to the team. For them to be marginalised in this way has to come back to the manager.

 

A manager's primary concern must be getting the greatest number of points from the games available. It is hard to justify his actions in the light of this.

 

Again, I'm not trying to justify Pardew's actions in any shape or form. I just wanted, for my own fucking sanity, to look at it a different way.

 

None of us are football managers, it surely isn't as easy as picking your best XI on paper. 

[Hanshithispantz]

Before the abuse comes I'm not a Pardew fan, far from it, but have any of you actually wondered if maybe Marveaux and Ben Arfa just have an incredibly poor attitude and so haven't earned a first team place based on reputation and ability alone?

Yep thought about it, and then considered the contrary evidence that shows Pardew to be a complete and utter mug and have come to the conclusion that it's his fault. He's a shit manager and a vindictive arsehole and he's managed them both horrifically.

 

I've gave my reasons before for why he's mismanaged them both, as have others.

[ads]

Before the abuse comes I'm not a Pardew fan, far from it, but have any of you actually wondered if maybe Marveaux and Ben Arfa just have an incredibly poor attitude and so haven't earned a first team place based on reputation and ability alone?

Yep thought about it, and then considered the contrary evidence that shows Pardew to be a complete and utter mug and have come to the conclusion that it's his fault. He's a shit manager and a vindictive arsehole and he's managed them both horrifically.

 

I've gave my reasons before for why he's mismanaged them both, as have others.

 

My point is, or at least should have been, that maybe it's just a combination of the two at a really unfortunate time?

 

Pardew being a stubborn cunt and Ben Arfa and Marv not applying themselves correctly. Under a different manager there'd be a different outcome, and maybe if they applied themselves properly for the club and the shirt from day 1 and every day since then, a different outcome again?

[aussiemag]

70% Pardews fault, 30% HBA. He has to take some blame for his poor attitude.

[KaKa]

This guy is available for £3m. I think he could make another manager look really smart.

 

Harry Redknapp will be all over this soon enough I imagine.

[KaKa]

Just seen him linked with West Ham 

 

I would be enraged if he went there and made Fat Sam look good.

 

Argh!

[triggs]

 

He's also an awful footballer.

Look up Ba's second goal against Arsenal in the 7-3 game. Are you telling me the man who made that cross is an awful footballer?

[Guest firetotheworks]

Before the abuse comes I'm not a Pardew fan, far from it, but have any of you actually wondered if maybe Marveaux and Ben Arfa just have an incredibly poor attitude and so haven't earned a first team place based on reputation and ability alone?

 

There was a time when Pardew visibly cherished Ben Arfa, there must have been a reason that went pear shaped? I know it's easier to blame Pardew for being a c*** and a poor tactician, but maybe Marv and Benny are just too laid back and not showing enough effort.

 

Like I said, Pardew is a c***, I'm not doubting that, but these guys need to take some of the blame. Marv seems injury prone and downright lazy on the pitch, Ben Arfa is in poor shape physically. It's an idealistic point of view to expect the other 9 or 10 players to carry the flair players, however much we want to see them on the pitch.

 

On a lesser scale talent wise but a grander scale c*** wise, look at Nile Ranger, he was a cult hero here at first, we wanted him to get game time but he barely did. As time went on it became apparent that he was just a bell end with a horrible attitude.

 

You need to maintain a happy squad, not just one or two happy flair players. I'm not condoning anything Pardew does but we don't know the full story.

 

It's interesting that you mention Nile Ranger, because after everything that happened, after he was thrown out of the squad for not showing up for training or for being late, Pardew publicly told us that he was going to give him a chance. We also had Yohan Cabaye who refused to play for us then walked straight back into the team.

 

IF Ben Arfa and Marveaux have bad attitudes then there's still a staggering case of double standards at the least. Cabaye was arguably our most important player, but I would have still had Ben Arfa on par as one of the most important. Ranger wasn't worth his salt as a footballer either, so it's not like it was Pardew overlooking someone like Suarez and giving him a chance.

 

Ben Arfa in particular was dropped immediately after being in excellent form. The exact series of events was:

 

Played away against Man City (4-0 without Cabaye)- Subbed for Shola Ameobi after 65 minutes

Played home against West Ham (0-0 without Cabaye) - Our main threat throughout

Played home against Fulham (1-0 Cabaye returns on 65 minutes) - Scored and was easily the best player on the pitch

Played away against Aston Villa (1-2 Cabaye starts) - Scored one, Gouffran scored from his saved shot and he generally took the p*ss out of Villa. Probably the best individual performance from last season, alongside Krul vs Spurs.

Played home against Hull (2-3) - He didn't track a winger, that put in a cross for Aluko to score a ridiculous goal

Played away against Everton but was shunned to the left wing (3-2) - He didn't play particularly well and was subbed at half time for Cabaye.

Benched away against Cardiff (1-2) and didn't come on.

Played home against Liverpool (2-2) with 10 men - He played well and was subbed for Shola Ameobi on 78 minutes.

Played away at Sunderland (2-1)  - I don't remember anyone's performance from that

Benched home against Chelsea (2-0) and didn't come on.

Benched away to Spurs (0-1) in a match I would say is the luckiest for us that I've ever seen.

 

We didn't see him again until he got 10 minutes at 1-1 at home to Southampton.

He then got 10 minutes against Palace and scored a pen.

Started home to Stoke (5-1) - Stoke had 2 players sent off but Ben Arfa was the best player on the field, getting an assist, winning a pen, hitting the bar and the post.

Benched home to Arsenal and didn't come on.

 

 

It's indefensible. Whichever way you want to look at it, we had and have significantly worse options than Ben Arfa that are used much more, that do less and are forgiven. Ben Arfa hasn't tracked back in a match, he's been moved to another position and then subbed at half time. He then gets 10 minute cameos to 'do something' then he starts, runs riot, then gets benched. It's laughable.

 

That bit in bold is effectively the only mistake that he was allowed for the entirety of last season, whilst Shola, Gosling and (towards the end) Gouffran were afforded every amount of being s*** and would start the next match.

 

 

[Kanj]

Great post, KI

[Hanshithispantz]

Before the abuse comes I'm not a Pardew fan, far from it, but have any of you actually wondered if maybe Marveaux and Ben Arfa just have an incredibly poor attitude and so haven't earned a first team place based on reputation and ability alone?

Yep thought about it, and then considered the contrary evidence that shows Pardew to be a complete and utter mug and have come to the conclusion that it's his fault. He's a shit manager and a vindictive arsehole and he's managed them both horrifically.

 

I've gave my reasons before for why he's mismanaged them both, as have others.

 

My point is, or at least should have been, that maybe it's just a combination of the two at a really unfortunate time?

 

Pardew being a stubborn cunt and Ben Arfa and Marv not applying themselves correctly. Under a different manager there'd be a different outcome, and maybe if they applied themselves properly for the club and the shirt from day 1 and every day since then, a different outcome again?

He's never really been shown to punish them or drop them exclusively on the back of bad behavior though.

 

Ben Arfa wasn't dropped for his bad attitude until the end of last season, before that he was cast out "becuz his stats wuzn't right." Pardew constantly bigged him up until he went on his little revolt.

 

Same with Marveux who at one point was his "bit o magic" until he failed to drag him out of the shit a few times, then like Hatem he was back to cameos when we were 2 goals down with 10 minutes to go and then blamed for the defeat and never seen again forever.

 

Their problem is they aren't hard working players defensively, they're forwards, and that probably does show up in training too.

[DJ_NUFC]

Before the abuse comes I'm not a Pardew fan, far from it, but have any of you actually wondered if maybe Marveaux and Ben Arfa just have an incredibly poor attitude and so haven't earned a first team place based on reputation and ability alone?

 

There was a time when Pardew visibly cherished Ben Arfa, there must have been a reason that went pear shaped? I know it's easier to blame Pardew for being a c*** and a poor tactician, but maybe Marv and Benny are just too laid back and not showing enough effort.

 

Like I said, Pardew is a c***, I'm not doubting that, but these guys need to take some of the blame. Marv seems injury prone and downright lazy on the pitch, Ben Arfa is in poor shape physically. It's an idealistic point of view to expect the other 9 or 10 players to carry the flair players, however much we want to see them on the pitch.

 

On a lesser scale talent wise but a grander scale c*** wise, look at Nile Ranger, he was a cult hero here at first, we wanted him to get game time but he barely did. As time went on it became apparent that he was just a bell end with a horrible attitude.

 

You need to maintain a happy squad, not just one or two happy flair players. I'm not condoning anything Pardew does but we don't know the full story.

 

It's interesting that you mention Nile Ranger, because after everything that happened, after he was thrown out of the squad for not showing up for training or for being late, Pardew publicly told us that he was going to give him a chance. We also had Yohan Cabaye who refused to play for us then walked straight back into the team.

 

IF Ben Arfa and Marveaux have bad attitudes then there's still a staggering case of double standards at the least. Cabaye was arguably our most important player, but I would have still had Ben Arfa on par as one of the most important. Ranger wasn't worth his salt as a footballer either, so it's not like it was Pardew overlooking someone like Suarez and giving him a chance.

 

Ben Arfa in particular was dropped immediately after being in excellent form. The exact series of events was:

 

Played away against Man City (4-0 without Cabaye)- Subbed for Shola Ameobi after 65 minutes

Played home against West Ham (0-0 without Cabaye) - Our main threat throughout

Played home against Fulham (1-0 Cabaye returns on 65 minutes) - Scored and was easily the best player on the pitch

Played away against Aston Villa (1-2 Cabaye starts) - Scored one, Gouffran scored from his saved shot and he generally took the p*ss out of Villa. Probably the best individual performance from last season, alongside Krul vs Spurs.

Played home against Hull (2-3) - He didn't track a winger, that put in a cross for Aluko to score a ridiculous goal

Played away against Everton but was shunned to the left wing (3-2) - He didn't play particularly well and was subbed at half time for Cabaye.

Benched away against Cardiff (1-2) and didn't come on.

Played home against Liverpool (2-2) with 10 men - He played well and was subbed for Shola Ameobi on 78 minutes.

Played away at Sunderland (2-1)  - I don't remember anyone's performance from that

Benched home against Chelsea (2-0) and didn't come on.

Benched away to Spurs (0-1) in a match I would say is the luckiest for us that I've ever seen.

 

We didn't see him again until he got 10 minutes at 1-1 at home to Southampton.

He then got 10 minutes against Palace and scored a pen.

Started home to Stoke (5-1) - Stoke had 2 players sent off but Ben Arfa was the best player on the field, getting an assist, winning a pen, hitting the bar and the post.

Benched home to Arsenal and didn't come on.

 

 

It's indefensible. Whichever way you want to look at it, we had and have significantly worse options than Ben Arfa that are used much more, that do less and are forgiven. Ben Arfa hasn't tracked back in a match, he's been moved to another position and then subbed at half time. He then gets 10 minute cameos to 'do something' then he starts, runs riot, then gets benched. It's laughable.

 

That bit in bold is effectively the only mistake that he was allowed for the entirety of last season, whilst Shola, Gosling and (towards the end) Gouffran were afforded every amount of being s*** and would start the next match.

 

 

 

Pardew supporters and anti-Ben Arfa-ites are much like the Tea Party supporters in the US: facts, evidence and figures be damned, their 'beliefs' are all that matter.

 

I'm so tired of repeating the same stats to these people that I applaud KI simply for having the patience to regurgitate them for the umpteenth time. I no longer have that patience and just want to slap them.

[alexf]

Kid Icarus is spot on.

 

Ben Arfa had one particularly bad game at home to Hull where he just didn't look right at all.

That was basically it then. He was in an out the team, mainly out, for the rest of the season. Even though he looked a little bit chunky he was still producing some outstanding moments during his cameos and was more than deserving of being back in the starting line-up.

 

I always thought it must be a personal thing for Pardew because he never ever held the other players against the same standards that he does Ben Arfa.

One mistake and he was out. Whereas we would see countless others, losing the ball, not tracking back etc but for some reason they were always let off.

Pardew is just a fucking hypocrite. 

[ads]

Before the abuse comes I'm not a Pardew fan, far from it, but have any of you actually wondered if maybe Marveaux and Ben Arfa just have an incredibly poor attitude and so haven't earned a first team place based on reputation and ability alone?

 

There was a time when Pardew visibly cherished Ben Arfa, there must have been a reason that went pear shaped? I know it's easier to blame Pardew for being a c*** and a poor tactician, but maybe Marv and Benny are just too laid back and not showing enough effort.

 

Like I said, Pardew is a c***, I'm not doubting that, but these guys need to take some of the blame. Marv seems injury prone and downright lazy on the pitch, Ben Arfa is in poor shape physically. It's an idealistic point of view to expect the other 9 or 10 players to carry the flair players, however much we want to see them on the pitch.

 

On a lesser scale talent wise but a grander scale c*** wise, look at Nile Ranger, he was a cult hero here at first, we wanted him to get game time but he barely did. As time went on it became apparent that he was just a bell end with a horrible attitude.

 

You need to maintain a happy squad, not just one or two happy flair players. I'm not condoning anything Pardew does but we don't know the full story.

 

It's interesting that you mention Nile Ranger, because after everything that happened, after he was thrown out of the squad for not showing up for training or for being late, Pardew publicly told us that he was going to give him a chance. We also had Yohan Cabaye who refused to play for us then walked straight back into the team.

 

IF Ben Arfa and Marveaux have bad attitudes then there's still a staggering case of double standards at the least. Cabaye was arguably our most important player, but I would have still had Ben Arfa on par as one of the most important. Ranger wasn't worth his salt as a footballer either, so it's not like it was Pardew overlooking someone like Suarez and giving him a chance.

 

Ben Arfa in particular was dropped immediately after being in excellent form. The exact series of events was:

 

Played away against Man City (4-0 without Cabaye)- Subbed for Shola Ameobi after 65 minutes

Played home against West Ham (0-0 without Cabaye) - Our main threat throughout

Played home against Fulham (1-0 Cabaye returns on 65 minutes) - Scored and was easily the best player on the pitch

Played away against Aston Villa (1-2 Cabaye starts) - Scored one, Gouffran scored from his saved shot and he generally took the p*ss out of Villa. Probably the best individual performance from last season, alongside Krul vs Spurs.

Played home against Hull (2-3) - He didn't track a winger, that put in a cross for Aluko to score a ridiculous goal

Played away against Everton but was shunned to the left wing (3-2) - He didn't play particularly well and was subbed at half time for Cabaye.

Benched away against Cardiff (1-2) and didn't come on.

Played home against Liverpool (2-2) with 10 men - He played well and was subbed for Shola Ameobi on 78 minutes.

Played away at Sunderland (2-1)  - I don't remember anyone's performance from that

Benched home against Chelsea (2-0) and didn't come on.

Benched away to Spurs (0-1) in a match I would say is the luckiest for us that I've ever seen.

 

We didn't see him again until he got 10 minutes at 1-1 at home to Southampton.

He then got 10 minutes against Palace and scored a pen.

Started home to Stoke (5-1) - Stoke had 2 players sent off but Ben Arfa was the best player on the field, getting an assist, winning a pen, hitting the bar and the post.

Benched home to Arsenal and didn't come on.

 

 

It's indefensible. Whichever way you want to look at it, we had and have significantly worse options than Ben Arfa that are used much more, that do less and are forgiven. Ben Arfa hasn't tracked back in a match, he's been moved to another position and then subbed at half time. He then gets 10 minute cameos to 'do something' then he starts, runs riot, then gets benched. It's laughable.

 

That bit in bold is effectively the only mistake that he was allowed for the entirety of last season, whilst Shola, Gosling and (towards the end) Gouffran were afforded every amount of being s*** and would start the next match.

 

 

 

Pardew supporters and anti-Ben Arfa-ites are much like the Tea Party supporters in the US: facts, evidence and figures be damned, their 'beliefs' are all that matter.

 

I'm so tired of repeating the same stats to these people that I applaud KI simply for having the patience to regurgitate them for the umpteenth time. I no longer have that patience and just want to slap them.

Give it a rest. If you'd read my post properly you'd see that I'm not in favour of Pardew at all.

[Guest Haris Vuckic]

RAWK and roll

[oldtype]

The guy said "Pardew is a cunt" something like five times in his original post How does he end up being a Pardew supporter