Hatem Ben Arfa (still a free agent)

[SEMTEX]

I lov hatem

[Ketsbaia]

Hatem was unbelievable. You never forget such talents.

[Ikon]

Miss him so much! Beautiful and exciting to watch.

[STM]

Just remembered that feeling of him picking up the ball and the excitement about what was about to happen.

 

It didnt matter if he was up against the best defence in the country, he would have them on the back foot within seconds of controlling the ball.

 

An unbelievable talent, even if there was a flawed person in there somewhere.

[Marko NUFC]

 

How anyone can be reminded of that quote and not feel sadness at what could've been is beyond me.

 

Thank God there's a match again tomorrow.

 

Its one of my favourite after-match interviews... isn't that the romantic stuff whats missing from today's football?

Players like HBA are so rare and next time we get another HBA in our squad I will personally fly to Newcastle to watch as many matches as I can with this kind of player in our team to cherish those moments...

[loki679]

Just remembered that feeling of him picking up the ball and the excitement about what was about to happen.

 

It didnt matter if he was up against the best defence in the country, he would have them on the back foot within seconds of controlling the ball.

 

An unbelievable talent, even if there was a flawed person in there somewhere.

 

His control was unreal.  There was one where there was a big hoofed high ball out and he just killed it dead with his first touch.  Amazing.

[Andymc1]

Hatem  Fuk da h8ers

[Kanji]

Absolute weirdos for trying to go against the grain on Hatem. A lad who only kicked off at Pardew and co for not playing him and/or was subject of scapegoating by a manager who was never at fault when often times Hatem was thrown on when the shit plan A was found out in 25 minutes. And for the love of god we had more consistent players who were hoping to get on the first ticket out of this club when their stepping stone time with us had expired. We had our club captain sign a contract and fuck off immediately to Argentina. We had our star CM go on strike to force a move to Arsenal. People’s memories man.

[Infinitely Content]

Just remembered that feeling of him picking up the ball and the excitement about what was about to happen.

 

It didnt matter if he was up against the best defence in the country, he would have them on the back foot within seconds of controlling the ball.

 

An unbelievable talent, even if there was a flawed person in there somewhere.

 

His control was unreal.  There was one where there was a big hoofed high ball out and he just killed it dead with his first touch.  Amazing.

 

Stoke at home. Tiote with the pass 

[Zero]

Errr....I rate Ben Arfas talents but honestly I don't rate him as a team player. And to suggest Bobby can utilise him - I really doubt that. We are talking about a player who nearly fall out with every manager (except Puel) and colleagues in his career.

 

Just imagine Hatem under Rafa. I guarantee you with all my belongings that this will crash real hard.

 

I really love his talents. I really do. But his brain let everyone down, including himself.

[sbnufc]

[Ikon]

5th of april?? Same as me! 

[wormy]

Yes. Ben Arfa is the petulant one. Absolutely disgusting that he should make a joke. Whatever next? Hang and quarter this monstrosity of a human being now.

[Kanji]

 

what

[nemtizz]

Knew Alves was a good one.

[SEMTEX]

5th of april?? Same as me! 

 

its my anniversary

[SEMTEX]

It's also not actually his birthday according to wiki

 

 

Date of birth 7 March 1987 (age 31)

[tmonkey]

Errr....I rate Ben Arfas talents but honestly I don't rate him as a team player. And to suggest Bobby can utilise him - I really doubt that. We are talking about a player who nearly fall out with every manager (except Puel) and colleagues in his career.

 

Just imagine Hatem under Rafa. I guarantee you with all my belongings that this will crash real hard.

 

I really love his talents. I really do. But his brain let everyone down, including himself.

 

What happened to Robert after Sir Bobby was sacked? What happened to Ginola after Keegan left? They were cast aside by the next manager pretty much immediately.

 

99% of football managers imo either aren't capable, or don't want to, work with a flair player of that type, which is why Sir Bobby and Keegan were special since they appreciated them. That's down to the prevalent mentality within the sport, managers are trained and developed to appreciate hard work, teamwork, etc, more than individual talent because it's inherent to the job. The majority of professional footballers are "talented" so the easiest and default thing to do as a football manager is to get them as fit as possible and working as hard as possible on the pitch to try to get three points. A player like Robert / Ginola / Ben Arfa throws a spanner in the works, because their talent far exceeds that of those around them but they come with issues that causes disruption, not only in match day tactics but off the field as well - jealousy from inferior players, resentment from hard working teammates who see someone not pulling their weight defensively, etc etc. So on top of the requirement to be tactically flexible, managers need an additional set of interpersonal skills to deal with the complaints and squad harmony issues. Most managers just don't have that in their skillset or can't be bothered.

 

Ben Arfa is simply unlucky in that he never found the combination of right manager + right club. At Nice he had the right manager and teammates, but the club was too small fry arguably. NUFC was the right club for him because we're a "sleeping giant" in terms of potential (we can afford good wages, have a big stadium with large support, "best league in da world" etc), Hatem himself said "everything is here" just before he left so he clearly understood the potential of the club if it were run well. We're also not able to attract players of his talent level minus the flaws - if Ben Arfa was solid defensively, made more runs off the ball, and released the ball more optimally you can be sure he'd have been snapped up by Real/Barca/Juve/City/Bayern/etc as soon as he was available. We never had a chance of getting Hazard, or Ribery, or Robben when they were in France/Holland for example, we'd only have a chance if there was something off-putting about them. Similarly, a top club won't need to put up with a flawed player like Ben Arfa since they can sign players at his ability level or higher without the flaws. So NUFC was a club where because we're restricted to flawed geniuses the team could have been built around him by putting him in a key position that compensated for his flaws (e.g. wide forward with minimal defensive duties) and having teammates with the necessary skillset to cover for him. But unfortunately we had the wrong manager at the time. Nice had the right manager, but were too small a club to keep him.

 

Just to give one example out of many as to why Pardew was a terrible manager for Ben Arfa, just consider the fact that we played Ben Arfa as a wide forward in a front 3 (in a 4-3-3 system) about a dozen times in his 4 years here. That's a role he seemed to be most suited for, and it meant less defensive responsibility and more freedom to attack. Most of that dozen or so games were during the run of impressive form that had us playing fluid football for a couple of months which ultimately was the catalyst for us finishing 5th and nearly qualifying for the CL. Ben Arfa was our standout player in that period, but before that season had even finished Pardew abandoned that formation/lineup forever, and steadfastedly stuck with his preferred flat defensive 4-4-2 for pretty much the remainder of his time here. I can't recall if we saw Ben Arfa played as a wide forward in a front 3 again after that, but if we did it would have been completely sporadic/random one-offs. What kind of a shit for brains manager abandons a system/formation that gets the best out of not only everyone in the squad but also it's most gifted player who actually produced great form in that system? The Alan Pardew type does.

 

Anyway, more to the point, since Bobby and Keegan were managers who appreciated flair players and understood NUFC as a club (especially its limitations of the type of player were restricted to, i.e. flawed geniuses that the elites don't want), I have no doubts they would have not only incorporated Ben Arfa in their teams but most likely would have built the team around him. With respect to Rafa, he's from the same school of manager as your Pardews, Sounesses, Alladyces, Mourinhos, etc, a negative manager who doesn't like players who don't follow instructions and don't like to take risks, but the difference with Rafa is that he's actually exceptionally good at most things (tactics, transfers, training, player development, etc), so that will compensate for him missing a trick at NUFC of utilising flawed geniuses whilst other clubs avoid it.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Top post tmonkey.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I think Hughton would have had tried to build a team around Ben Arfa as well.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

It’s a myth he was lazy as well, same with Ginola and Robert. They just did their hard work in the final 3rd with their runs, their constant availability, their risk taking, their ambition and constant attempts at creating and scoring goals to win a game. Dyer worked hard for the team defensively, but going forward he was often lazy, playing simple passes or doing lung busting runs only to make an easy or simple decision on the ball in the final 3rd after the run. Whether thats down to confidence or skill or whatever, who knows. There is probably only one player I’ve seen for us who ran his bollocks off, worked hard and still had the skill and flair to create and weave magic and that was Beardsley. By the way Tino would work his boloocks off at times too.

[Zero]

I kinda disagree with some of the point you bring out tmonkey but anyway we can't prove who is right or wrong. Put it short, of course Bobby is willing to incorporate flair player like Ben Arfa but I don't think he is able to keep the dressing room happy. Robert for all his "laziness" is actually a decent teammate and get along well with Shearer. Ginola also doesn't cause much troubles in dressing room. Would Bobby be able to bring out the best of Hatem? Yes. For how long? God knows. Dyer already did it, if you need history facts for reference.

 

Flair player doesn't necessarily means trouble maker. Just that in our recent history they always come together.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I think someone like Gary Speed would have looked after Ben Arfa in the dressing room. Sir Bobby always liked having someone who could manage the players when he couldn’t or was occupied elsewhere. Sir Bobby also liked it when players came up with ideas of their own or offered an opinion.

 

We have to remember the kind of dressing room Pardew fostered and the kind of characters he and Carver were. If someone like Ben Arfa started questioning them in front of the others, some of the senior players who were faves of the management like Shola would have told HBA to shut up.

 

Sir Bobby again didn’t mind his players having an opinion and confronting him. KK wasn’t that type of manager, it was his way or the highway, but he made the dressing room fun, as one and made players feel special and part of whatever was going on.

 

HBA is not a trouble maker IMO, he just wants to play and play in a certain way and given his ability and what he can do for the team and his team-mates which only a handful can, it’s up to the manager and team-mates to accommodate him.

 

I honestly think he’d be piss easy to manage even if he was argumentative and confrontational. Bellamy I’m sure was much worse and while he riled team mates up and some didn’t like him, we had intelligent players and strong characters who realise and accepted what he gave to the team.

 

Under Pardew and Carver we had a team of softies, characterless players. Only Jonas and Shola had character and leadership, but Shola would never go against Pardew and Jonas was seen more of a fun guy rather than a player a team-mate would look up to or be scared of to upset.

 

Either way he hasn’t helped his own cause and kind of has wasted his career. Pardew wasted him here and it’s a shame for us because he could have been another Ginola or more for us. Loved him me and his kind of ability and that kind of player.

[Elliottman]

Loads of tweets about him from France football tonight. Sounds like.someone at PSG has hoyed him under the bus.

[Away Day Gadgie]

Errr....I rate Ben Arfas talents but honestly I don't rate him as a team player. And to suggest Bobby can utilise him - I really doubt that. We are talking about a player who nearly fall out with every manager (except Puel) and colleagues in his career.

 

Just imagine Hatem under Rafa. I guarantee you with all my belongings that this will crash real hard.

 

I really love his talents. I really do. But his brain let everyone down, including himself.

 

What happened to Robert after Sir Bobby was sacked? What happened to Ginola after Keegan left? They were cast aside by the next manager pretty much immediately.

 

99% of football managers imo either aren't capable, or don't want to, work with a flair player of that type, which is why Sir Bobby and Keegan were special since they appreciated them. That's down to the prevalent mentality within the sport, managers are trained and developed to appreciate hard work, teamwork, etc, more than individual talent because it's inherent to the job. The majority of professional footballers are "talented" so the easiest and default thing to do as a football manager is to get them as fit as possible and working as hard as possible on the pitch to try to get three points. A player like Robert / Ginola / Ben Arfa throws a spanner in the works, because their talent far exceeds that of those around them but they come with issues that causes disruption, not only in match day tactics but off the field as well - jealousy from inferior players, resentment from hard working teammates who see someone not pulling their weight defensively, etc etc. So on top of the requirement to be tactically flexible, managers need an additional set of interpersonal skills to deal with the complaints and squad harmony issues. Most managers just don't have that in their skillset or can't be bothered.

 

Ben Arfa is simply unlucky in that he never found the combination of right manager + right club. At Nice he had the right manager and teammates, but the club was too small fry arguably. NUFC was the right club for him because we're a "sleeping giant" in terms of potential (we can afford good wages, have a big stadium with large support, "best league in da world" etc), Hatem himself said "everything is here" just before he left so he clearly understood the potential of the club if it were run well. We're also not able to attract players of his talent level minus the flaws - if Ben Arfa was solid defensively, made more runs off the ball, and released the ball more optimally you can be sure he'd have been snapped up by Real/Barca/Juve/City/Bayern/etc as soon as he was available. We never had a chance of getting Hazard, or Ribery, or Robben when they were in France/Holland for example, we'd only have a chance if there was something off-putting about them. Similarly, a top club won't need to put up with a flawed player like Ben Arfa since they can sign players at his ability level or higher without the flaws. So NUFC was a club where because we're restricted to flawed geniuses the team could have been built around him by putting him in a key position that compensated for his flaws (e.g. wide forward with minimal defensive duties) and having teammates with the necessary skillset to cover for him. But unfortunately we had the wrong manager at the time. Nice had the right manager, but were too small a club to keep him.

 

Just to give one example out of many as to why Pardew was a terrible manager for Ben Arfa, just consider the fact that we played Ben Arfa as a wide forward in a front 3 (in a 4-3-3 system) about a dozen times in his 4 years here. That's a role he seemed to be most suited for, and it meant less defensive responsibility and more freedom to attack. Most of that dozen or so games were during the run of impressive form that had us playing fluid football for a couple of months which ultimately was the catalyst for us finishing 5th and nearly qualifying for the CL. Ben Arfa was our standout player in that period, but before that season had even finished Pardew abandoned that formation/lineup forever, and steadfastedly stuck with his preferred flat defensive 4-4-2 for pretty much the remainder of his time here. I can't recall if we saw Ben Arfa played as a wide forward in a front 3 again after that, but if we did it would have been completely sporadic/random one-offs. What kind of a shit for brains manager abandons a system/formation that gets the best out of not only everyone in the squad but also it's most gifted player who actually produced great form in that system? The Alan Pardew type does.

 

Anyway, more to the point, since Bobby and Keegan were managers who appreciated flair players and understood NUFC as a club (especially its limitations of the type of player were restricted to, i.e. flawed geniuses that the elites don't want), I have no doubts they would have not only incorporated Ben Arfa in their teams but most likely would have built the team around him. With respect to Rafa, he's from the same school of manager as your Pardews, Sounesses, Alladyces, Mourinhos, etc, a negative manager who doesn't like players who don't follow instructions and don't like to take risks, but the difference with Rafa is that he's actually exceptionally good at most things (tactics, transfers, training, player development, etc), so that will compensate for him missing a trick at NUFC of utilising flawed geniuses whilst other clubs avoid it.

 

Class post ?